Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Another newbie question

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Another newbie question

Old 09-27-22, 04:03 PM
  #26  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,107
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8191 Post(s)
Liked 8,852 Times in 4,397 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
The original Paramounts were made in Chicago, first by Emil Wastyn and later in a special section of Schwinn's Chicago factory. By the mid 80s, Paramount production was moved to a new facility in Waterford Wisconsin (not Waterloo Wisconsin; that's Trek's factory). When Schwinn was sold, the Waterford facility was spun off into a new entity headed by Richard Schwinn (Waterford Precision Cycles).

"No Hands" is an engaging history of the Schwinn Bicycle Company.
Thanks for the correction. I got confused again! Even says made in Waterford on my Gunnar.
big john is offline  
Old 09-27-22, 06:46 PM
  #27  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
That book would make an interesting reading. I wonder why did Schwinn fail out of grace.

Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
The original Paramounts were made in Chicago, first by Emil Wastyn and later in a special section of Schwinn's Chicago factory. By the mid 80s, Paramount production was moved to a new facility in Waterford Wisconsin (not Waterloo Wisconsin; that's Trek's factory). When Schwinn was sold, the Waterford facility was spun off into a new entity headed by Richard Schwinn (Waterford Precision Cycles).

"No Hands" is an engaging history of the Schwinn Bicycle Company.
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-27-22, 07:56 PM
  #28  
grantelmwood
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 19 Posts
Drink more wine.
Vague meaningless adjectives will start to make more sense
grantelmwood is offline  
Likes For grantelmwood:
Old 09-28-22, 02:45 AM
  #29  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,179
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4274 Post(s)
Liked 4,718 Times in 2,913 Posts
It's no different to describing the ride and handling of cars. Same basic factors affect all kinds of vehicles ie. mass, geometry, compliance. So you can expect a stiff, lightweight road racing bike to feel "nimble", "lively", "twitchy", "quick" etc. While a heavy, utilitarian hybrid bike might be described as "stable", "forgiving", "comfortable" or whatever other subjective traits come to mind!
PeteHski is online now  
Old 09-28-22, 06:04 AM
  #30  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Good analogy. Makes sense.

Originally Posted by PeteHski
It's no different to describing the ride and handling of cars. Same basic factors affect all kinds of vehicles ie. mass, geometry, compliance. So you can expect a stiff, lightweight road racing bike to feel "nimble", "lively", "twitchy", "quick" etc. While a heavy, utilitarian hybrid bike might be described as "stable", "forgiving", "comfortable" or whatever other subjective traits come to mind!
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-28-22, 06:05 AM
  #31  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
The sensibility of the adjective is proportionate to the alcohol concentration in the blood

Originally Posted by grantelmwood
Drink more wine.
Vague meaningless adjectives will start to make more sense
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-28-22, 06:06 AM
  #32  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Nice bike!
Originally Posted by big john
Thanks for the correction. I got confused again! Even says made in Waterford on my Gunnar.
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-28-22, 07:54 AM
  #33  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,107
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8191 Post(s)
Liked 8,852 Times in 4,397 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
That book would make an interesting reading. I wonder why did Schwinn fail out of grace.
The Schwinn name was bought by a large conglomerate just like many other names/brands were including Masi, Motobecane, GT, Mongoose, Murray, and Cannondale. These names are all owned by Pacific Cycles, part of Dorel.
big john is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 12:33 PM
  #34  
Garfield Cat
Senior Member
 
Garfield Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 7,079

Bikes: Cervelo Prodigy

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 87 Times in 67 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
I know this is a stupid question for an old dude like myself! But hope you indulge me.

I read many adjectives about the type of ride, as in "lively", "dead", "Twitchy", etc.

Could you help me understand what do these terms mean? I have three steel bikes: a 2017 Kona wheelhouse, a 1991 schwinn paramount series 3, and a late 80's IRO single speed. Should I tell a difference amongst them in terms of ride quality? Thanks in advance!
You have 3 steel alloy frame bikes. That in itself may indicate why you're asking the question. Indulge a little and get a different frame material bike to tryout. It's like in many other things. A chef will taste a particular dish like even spaghetti and tell you what it is about.
Garfield Cat is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 01:00 PM
  #35  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
I think this is an excellent point. Indeed since I have only picked up biking two years ago (at age 55), and since I only tried steel, I am totally oblivious to what other frames could ride like. All I know is that (from what I read) that steel bikes absorb road imperfections better and are more resilient. Besides, I have to confess I dig how "clean" those older steel frames look
I usually ride in a trail nearby leading to Washington, DC, and the pavement is not that good. That is why I opted for steel. Would buying a used aluminum bike allow me to get a feel for this kind of frames or would it give a bit of a false feeling? the reason is they probably would be more affordable instead of buying new. I see a few older aluminum bikes on craiglist or facebook market place but as opposed to steel I didn't feel confident figuring out how good they are.

Originally Posted by Garfield Cat
You have 3 steel alloy frame bikes. That in itself may indicate why you're asking the question. Indulge a little and get a different frame material bike to tryout. It's like in many other things. A chef will taste a particular dish like even spaghetti and tell you what it is about.
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 02:15 PM
  #36  
holytrousers
hoppipola
 
holytrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 423

Bikes: fausto coppi

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked 227 Times in 163 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
I think this is an excellent point. Indeed since I have only picked up biking two years ago (at age 55), and since I only tried steel, I am totally oblivious to what other frames could ride like. All I know is that (from what I read) that steel bikes absorb road imperfections better and are more resilient. Besides, I have to confess I dig how "clean" those older steel frames look
I usually ride in a trail nearby leading to Washington, DC, and the pavement is not that good. That is why I opted for steel. Would buying a used aluminum bike allow me to get a feel for this kind of frames or would it give a bit of a false feeling? the reason is they probably would be more affordable instead of buying new. I see a few older aluminum bikes on craiglist or facebook market place but as opposed to steel I didn't feel confident figuring out how good they are.
Wouldn't the new bike need to be equipped with similar components of similar age and have the same frame geometry ?
holytrousers is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 02:24 PM
  #37  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Sorry I don't follow your question.

Originally Posted by holytrousers
Wouldn't the new bike need to be equipped with similar components of similar age and have the same frame geometry ?
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 02:34 PM
  #38  
holytrousers
hoppipola
 
holytrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 423

Bikes: fausto coppi

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked 227 Times in 163 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
Sorry I don't follow your question.
if you want to discover how the feeling of aluminum differs from steel by buying a new bike, wouldn't the new bike need to have the same components of the same age, ie same tires with similar wear inflated to the same pressure, the spoke tensions identical, the same rims, saddle, handlebars etc. and of cours the same frame geometry
If the components on the new bike were different, how would you know if the new feeling aren't attributed to it's different components (or frame geometry), rather than to the frame material ?
holytrousers is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 03:13 PM
  #39  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
I haven't read all the responses here so if I repeat something already posted my apologies. A friend of mine has spent his life in the bicycle industry and raced locally. He calls my Guru Sidero (steel) "nervous." By which he means it steers very quickly. This is usually a result of fork rake and WB. Some would call it twitchy. My take on handling is that much, if not most, of it boils down to those two factors.....assuming similar wheels and tires.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 03:22 PM
  #40  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
I see, so separating all other factors except the frame materials. This makes sense scientifically but may be difficult to achieve in practice, no?

Originally Posted by holytrousers
if you want to discover how the feeling of aluminum differs from steel by buying a new bike, wouldn't the new bike need to have the same components of the same age, ie same tires with similar wear inflated to the same pressure, the spoke tensions identical, the same rims, saddle, handlebars etc. and of cours the same frame geometry
If the components on the new bike were different, how would you know if the new feeling aren't attributed to it's different components (or frame geometry), rather than to the frame material ?
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 03:23 PM
  #41  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
What is WB?

Originally Posted by bruce19
I haven't read all the responses here so if I repeat something already posted my apologies. A friend of mine has spent his life in the bicycle industry and raced locally. He calls my Guru Sidero (steel) "nervous." By which he means it steers very quickly. This is usually a result of fork rake and WB. Some would call it twitchy. My take on handling is that much, if not most, of it boils down to those two factors.....assuming similar wheels and tires.
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 03:43 PM
  #42  
holytrousers
hoppipola
 
holytrousers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 423

Bikes: fausto coppi

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 512 Post(s)
Liked 227 Times in 163 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
I see, so separating all other factors except the frame materials. This makes sense scientifically but may be difficult to achieve in practice, no?
Yes, that's why i was skeptical about the idea of buying a new aluminum bike just to feel the difference without being rigorous about it. Another alternative would be to ride hundreds of different bikes to get the general idea of how each material feels like.
holytrousers is offline  
Old 09-30-22, 03:54 PM
  #43  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Oh I wish I wish. A very tempting suggestion but I am afraid I have champaign taste and a beer budget

Originally Posted by holytrousers
Yes, that's why i was skeptical about the idea of buying a new aluminum bike just to feel the difference without being rigorous about it. Another alternative would be to ride hundreds of different bikes to get the general idea of how each material feels like.
sbuckaroo is offline  
Likes For sbuckaroo:
Old 09-30-22, 04:33 PM
  #44  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,107
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8191 Post(s)
Liked 8,852 Times in 4,397 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
What is WB?
wheelbase
big john is offline  
Likes For big john:
Old 10-01-22, 05:45 AM
  #45  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times in 734 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
What is WB?
wheel base......the distance between front and rear axles.
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:
Old 10-01-22, 08:45 AM
  #46  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
I see. So when this distance increases does it mean a more aggressive riding position?

Originally Posted by bruce19
wheel base......the distance between front and rear axles.

Last edited by sbuckaroo; 10-01-22 at 08:49 AM.
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 10-01-22, 08:53 AM
  #47  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times in 3,262 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
Originally Posted by bruce19
wheel base......the distance between front and rear axles.
I see. So when this distance increases does it mean a more aggressive riding position?
No. Absolutely not. Don't make such assumptions about riding position based on just one particular dimension of bike geometry. You have to know what all the other dimensions, angles and tube lengths as well as stem, handlebar and other component dimensions are to even begin to make such an assessment.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 10-01-22, 08:57 AM
  #48  
sbuckaroo
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Oh.. OK. got it.

Originally Posted by Iride01
No. Absolutely not. Don't make such assumptions about riding position based on just one particular dimension of bike geometry. You have to know what all the other dimensions, angles and tube lengths as well as stem, handlebar and other component dimensions are to even begin to make such an assessment.
sbuckaroo is offline  
Old 10-01-22, 08:58 AM
  #49  
Garfield Cat
Senior Member
 
Garfield Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 7,079

Bikes: Cervelo Prodigy

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 475 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 87 Times in 67 Posts
Originally Posted by sbuckaroo
I think this is an excellent point. Indeed since I have only picked up biking two years ago (at age 55), and since I only tried steel, I am totally oblivious to what other frames could ride like. All I know is that (from what I read) that steel bikes absorb road imperfections better and are more resilient. Besides, I have to confess I dig how "clean" those older steel frames look
I usually ride in a trail nearby leading to Washington, DC, and the pavement is not that good. That is why I opted for steel. Would buying a used aluminum bike allow me to get a feel for this kind of frames or would it give a bit of a false feeling? the reason is they probably would be more affordable instead of buying new. I see a few older aluminum bikes on craiglist or facebook market place but as opposed to steel I didn't feel confident figuring out how good they are.
Age 55 and recently within 2 years: "more affordable" "buying used" - By now you have 2 years of riding and now have a pretty good idea as to what you like about the bikes you already have. It is now more about how you like to ride and not the materials.

Some riders like to go for the sport. That means faster speeds and longer distances. If this is you, then skip the curious mode and go straight up to the front of the line. If you like the way you ride now, then it may not matter what others tell you about aluminum or carbon fiber.
Garfield Cat is offline  
Old 10-01-22, 09:01 AM
  #50  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,811

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6100 Post(s)
Liked 4,732 Times in 3,262 Posts
If you look in the geometry specs for a bike, frame stack, IMO will be your best single measurement to give you a clue about how aggressive a fit a bike might give a cyclist. However it's not absolute. Other things might change the riders position to be slightly less aggressive between different models of bikes.
Iride01 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.