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Buying expensive bikes and parts...

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Buying expensive bikes and parts...

Old 12-23-15, 04:20 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood

It's a brutal internet at times, not so in person or on a group ride.
The Internet really does bring out the worst in some folks. Funny thing for me is that the rude comments about my commuter bike have virtually all been on the Internet and the rude comments about my Venge have almost all been in person. In person, though, allows me to discuss the matter with the person, which I enjoy.
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Old 12-23-15, 06:27 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
the rude comments about my Venge have almost all been in person.
Dare I ask why? The Sp. Venge series are pretty awesome looking bikes - they had one at "my" LBS that they special ordered for someone - I thought it was "futuristic" looking in a way.

What's not to like?
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Old 12-23-15, 06:28 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Yeehaa! The HTFU troll rides again! https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...ones-htfu.html and https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespee...e-gearing.html I'm not going to read all this but I bet your point is "If they aren't faster than me they shouldn't ride a nicer bike." You should get over your bike envy.
It is beyond sad that you feel a need to behave this way. Read the thread. Read my user name. I make no claims of being fast. I have worked hard to not be as slow as I used to be. I have nice bikes, but nothing extreme. And, you would also notice I am extremely happy with my bikes.

Best wishes with the holidays.
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Old 12-23-15, 06:32 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by TriDanny47
Dare I ask why? The Sp. Venge series are pretty awesome looking bikes - they had one at "my" LBS that they special ordered for someone - I thought it was "futuristic" looking in a way.

What's not to like?
i have WI platform pedals and clips. That is apparently a sin beyond acceptance. Also, I do not wear tight fitting kit, so I am wasting the aero effects. The pedals are due to very worn knees that no longer put up with clipless. No tight fitting clothes, given aero effects are beyond me. I just really like the bike, the looks, the ride, and it is the fastest bike I have owned.
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Old 12-23-15, 06:36 PM
  #130  
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Your posts speak for themselves.
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Old 12-23-15, 06:37 PM
  #131  
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It's easier to put people down for their excess and extravagance than it is to put them down for their struggle. Even if people have money in their old age most have had their own difficulties much fewer people have been rich the whole time or at all and not understanding people doing what they've got to do. And after a certain point ridiculously expensive bikes are wholly unnecessary.
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Old 12-23-15, 06:51 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood

edit: in vintage-land, $1,000 - $1500 buys a very fine riding machine. If it was good enough for Eddy and Greg to race on, it's more than adequate for me.
If you look at bike prices Eddy and Greg rode on back in the day and convert to 2015 dollars, you will find it a whole lot more. They also rode state of cycling technology back then; what they would ride today is completely different.
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Old 12-23-15, 07:15 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by StanSeven
If you look at bike prices Eddy and Greg rode on back in the day and convert to 2015 dollars, you will find it a whole lot more. They also rode state of cycling technology back then; what they would ride today is completely different.
I totally agree with you.
But that wasn't the point, which is = $1,000 - $1,500 will purchase a high quality used bike with components that are desirable and dependable. If you go back far enough to adapt to friction shifting (bar-end or downtube) the same money buys a bike that was race caliber in its' day.

The same money today gets an entry level CF frame with dependable mid-range components.
Consumer make the choice. Value is a subjective, point-of-view concept.
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Old 12-23-15, 07:18 PM
  #134  
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One cool thing about bikes is that what pros ride is within reach of many, when compared to things like MotoGP bikes or race cars. Much different in many ways, but still interesting,
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Old 12-23-15, 07:34 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by chasm54
It isn't about performance, it's about self-image.
I think you're really off here. The clear majority of people doing upgrades are doing it for performance. Things like lighter frames, deep aero wheels, electronic shifting, aero clothes and helmets, etc., all give a performance boat, although some is slight. The second reason is because it's their hobby/interest/passion and they enjoy nicer things. The proportion of vein people that do it for self-image is small.
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Old 12-23-15, 07:36 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
I totally agree with you.
But that wasn't the point, which is = $1,000 - $1,500 will purchase a high quality used bike with components that are desirable and dependable. If you go back far enough to adapt to friction shifting (bar-end or downtube) the same money buys a bike that was race caliber in its' day.

The same money today gets an entry level CF frame with dependable mid-range components.
Consumer make the choice. Value is a subjective, point-of-view concept.
Ah. Got you! I understand what you are saying
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Old 12-23-15, 07:48 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by StanSeven
I think you're really off here. The clear majority of people doing upgrades are doing it for performance. Things like lighter frames, deep aero wheels, electronic shifting, aero clothes and helmets, etc., all give a performance boat, although some is slight. The second reason is because it's their hobby/interest/passion and they enjoy nicer things. The proportion of vein people that do it for self-image is small.
I agree. I just do not see that many people riding bikes to satisfy a vanity need. Their friends are not likely to be impressed by any bike.
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Old 12-23-15, 08:34 PM
  #138  
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I definitely enjoy having people compliment me on the component choices, paint scheme, design etc. of my bikes and I'd be lying if I said that had nothing to do with the choices I make. But by far the top consideration is always what will work best for me.
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Old 12-23-15, 08:52 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
I must be an overachiever, I found IDGAF at an earlier age.

On topic, I just built my SS MTB. I could have spent more, but some decisions did not make sense for me. For example, CF rims would have only saved me a tiny bit of weight, but would have cost about 4 times as much. I think bikes like this are awesome, and some current high end bikes would do nothing for me. But, someone else might choke on how much this bike cost me.
Excellent...a person after my ownself's heart!

A firm believer in form follows function and I acquire things...cars/bikes/homes/wives/whatever...that work for me, not to impress others.

Last edited by ltxi; 12-23-15 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-23-15, 10:05 PM
  #140  
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What's expensive these days? I've been told that the AVERAGE price of bike going out of a bike shop in the US is $1500. It's all pretty subjective. It all depends on how much value the bike provides for you. 3-5k is reasonable for a bike that provides a lot of valuable use and recreation. Spending $150 on a department store bike can be a complete waste, buying the latest, greatest crotch rocket just to impress people can be just as wasteful.



It just depends on your values.

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Old 12-23-15, 10:13 PM
  #141  
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Not surprised by the $1500 figure. I've been shopping a bit myself and that seems to be the price point where the bulk of well equipped bikes are.

From my experience, it seems $500 is the ticket for an 'entry level' bike with a Sora or Claris groupset. Then it kind of gets shaky between than and $1500. Might be lighter, might have a better groupset; or indeed might just be an entry level bike that's overpriced. Once you hit $1500, there's a long of bang for the buck again. You're getting into 105 or better groupsets, lighter frames, better geometry, etc. It seems, in my perspective, that above that the bikes get better; but only marginally and incrementally.

It seems to me that the difference between a $500 and $1500 bike is pretty significant, whilst the difference between the $1500 bike and a $5000 bike is much less discernible.
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Old 12-23-15, 10:53 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by RomansFiveEight
Not surprised by the $1500 figure. I've been shopping a bit myself and that seems to be the price point where the bulk of well equipped bikes are.

From my experience, it seems $500 is the ticket for an 'entry level' bike with a Sora or Claris groupset. Then it kind of gets shaky between than and $1500. Might be lighter, might have a better groupset; or indeed might just be an entry level bike that's overpriced. Once you hit $1500, there's a long of bang for the buck again. You're getting into 105 or better groupsets, lighter frames, better geometry, etc. It seems, in my perspective, that above that the bikes get better; but only marginally and incrementally.

It seems to me that the difference between a $500 and $1500 bike is pretty significant, whilst the difference between the $1500 bike and a $5000 bike is much less discernible.
I am a MTB guy, but have some road bikes. So, I can't really make any strong statements about road bike values by price. However, with MTBs, I believe there is a breaking point at $4,000-5,000 depending upon the company. Then, after that the differences are harder to discern. That is for full suspension bikes. The only issue I have is that those bikes rarely have the best brakes, and great brakes make a huge difference on MTBs for the trails I like.

One issue on the lower priced road bikes is wheels. However, great wheels usually do not start showing up on road bikes, from what I have seen, until the price goes way up. So, if I was road bike hunting I would factor in a wheelset upgrade.
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Old 12-24-15, 01:48 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by StanSeven
I think you're really off here. The clear majority of people doing upgrades are doing it for performance. Things like lighter frames, deep aero wheels, electronic shifting, aero clothes and helmets, etc., all give a performance boat, although some is slight. The second reason is because it's their hobby/interest/passion and they enjoy nicer things. The proportion of vein people that do it for self-image is small.
Your latter point - that they are doing it because it's their interest and they like nice things - is much stronger than your first, in my experience. Yes, the things they are buying are higher performance components, but in many if not most cases they don't attempt to perform at a high enough level to see significant benefit. A set of deepmsection Firecrest wheels isn't going to help much if you're riding around at recovery pace.

That's fine with me, by the way, people can buy whatever they like and good luck to them. But for the recreational rider who doesn't train seriously, the difference in their personal performance between the $3000 dollar bike and the $10000 dollar bike is going to be barely visible. They simply aren't fit enough to exploit the advantage. So it isn't that they really want to be fast, it's that they want their bike to be. In my experience, anyway.
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Old 12-24-15, 04:59 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Yeehaa! The HTFU troll rides again! https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...ones-htfu.html and https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespee...e-gearing.html I'm not going to read all this but I bet your point is "If they aren't faster than me they shouldn't ride a nicer bike." You should get over your bike envy.
I think you need to look in the mirror to see what an Internet troll looks like!

You comment negatively, but admit you haven't fully read the thread, and you search through someone's posting history to find something to criticise.

Merry Christmas.
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Old 12-24-15, 07:12 AM
  #145  
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Old 12-24-15, 09:04 AM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Gerryattrick
I think you need to look in the mirror to see what an Internet troll looks like!

You comment negatively, but admit you haven't fully read the thread, and you search through someone's posting history to find something to criticise.

Merry Christmas.
I startd those two threads with honest intentions, and some attempt at humor. I did not do a good enough job describing the situation, nor my intentions. So, a couple of folks who apparently like to go after others on the Internet made a big deal out of what was a little deal. The funny part to me is that I tell myself th HTFU about every other ride. I believe we all at times find something difficult, and some days we have every right to take the easy route, and other days we should go fo it. I have been very happy that this thread has stayed, overall, very well behaved. We are a bunch of bike enthusiasts and it is nice to be able to exchange thoughts without hostility.

one thing I am still curious about is where people draw the line regarding low, middle, high, and ridiculous for bike prices.
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Old 12-24-15, 09:16 AM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by chasm54
Your latter point - that they are doing it because it's their interest and they like nice things - is much stronger than your first, in my experience. Yes, the things they are buying are higher performance components, but in many if not most cases they don't attempt to perform at a high enough level to see significant benefit. A set of deepmsection Firecrest wheels isn't going to help much if you're riding around at recovery pace.

That's fine with me, by the way, people can buy whatever they like and good luck to them. But for the recreational rider who doesn't train seriously, the difference in their personal performance between the $3000 dollar bike and the $10000 dollar bike is going to be barely visible. They simply aren't fit enough to exploit the advantage. So it isn't that they really want to be fast, it's that they want their bike to be. In my experience, anyway.
I do think that what your saying has much different lines between road and MTB. I bought my road bike on a great sale, given it is overkill for me. However, it is the bike I wanted because it is a fast bike and I love the way it rides and looks. I know my times around my favorite loop might only be 1-2 minutes different than a bike that would have been much less, if it were not for the deal. And, I did not consider anything more expensive.

In contrast, given that you can feel the difference, literally, on a mountain bike at much lower speeds, the price break goes up much higher. I believe that most good and experienced riders can feel and enjoy the difference all the way up to the $8,000-9,000 bikes. Now, the $3,000-5,000 bikes are great bikes, do not get me wrong. But, those extra dollars bring about suspension, brake, and wheel differences that are noticeable. Then, the $10,000 plus bikes are difficult to squeeze out, notice the difference above the $8,000-9,000 bikes, given at that point it is mostly weight that makes a bigger difference for elite riders than good riders.
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Old 12-24-15, 09:34 AM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow

one thing I am still curious about is where people draw the line regarding low, middle, high, and ridiculous for bike prices.
Depends. I just bought a touring bike. Dedacciai steel frame, Tange fork, Shimano 105 group, nice wheels, expensive saddle. All told it came to around $2700. I could certainly have got one of similar functionality for less money, but it's a particularly handsome bike that fits me like an old shoe, and I'll be doing upwards of 300 miles per week on it for several weeks at a time

Were I to replace my ageing carbon race bike it would probably cost me around $4000 to get the modern 11-speed equivalent. More if I went to electronic shifting. I probably wouldn't pay for that upgrade, though, because I'm not racing anymore and Ultegra/105 mechanical shifting is perfectly adequate for my needs. But I wouldn't consider it "ridiculous" for someone to pay more, if they had some objective in mind that the superior machine would help them achieve, or even if they just liked the bells and whistles. The latter motivation doesn't apply to me, I've never been mechanically inclined and I don't really take particular pleasure in the machinery per se. My priorities are a perfect fit and a level of performance that doesn't constrain me.

As for cheap? My cheapest bike is the FG/SS I mainly ride around town, lock up outside the pub and so on. I could replace that for maybe $600.

EDIT: You're right, btw, my perspective is that of a roadie. I can't comment on the price points of MTBs, I don't do all that muddy stuff... .

Last edited by chasm54; 12-24-15 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 12-24-15, 09:59 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Kindaslow
I startd those two threads with honest intentions, and some attempt at humor. I did not do a good enough job describing the situation, nor my intentions. So, a couple of folks who apparently like to go after others on the Internet made a big deal out of what was a little deal. The funny part to me is that I tell myself th HTFU about every other ride. I believe we all at times find something difficult, and some days we have every right to take the easy route, and other days we should go fo it. I have been very happy that this thread has stayed, overall, very well behaved. We are a bunch of bike enthusiasts and it is nice to be able to exchange thoughts without hostility.

one thing I am still curious about is where people draw the line regarding low, middle, high, and ridiculous for bike prices.
I think this group is a little less confrontational ... one of the benefits of geezerdom, I guess.

I think people draw it in different places, based on their skinflintyness, their view of their relevant cost/benefit parameters for their optimization, their luddityness (making up all kinds of words here).

As for me, I'm a skinflinty luddite and my benefit parameters for the optimization problem lean heavily in the direction of verified functionality instead of bling. So FWIW, my lines (for a new bike) are:

500-1000, 1000-2000, 2001-5000, 5000+

All of my bikes, save for one, fall into the low price realm.
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Old 12-24-15, 10:14 AM
  #150  
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Buying expensive bikes and parts...

it seems that the topic of buying expensive bikes has become the newest popcorn thread of 2015.

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I have a MSRP $8000 carbon fiber bike (got it for $4000) and I have previously engaged in some vociferous discussions.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
See these threads from this summer for opposing points of view:

”Are expensive bikes necessary? (Moral conundrum.)

My new $7,000 bike and the futility of justifying the price to the average person.

I once read this definition on BF of a really nice bike, "Lighter than a f@rt, and more expensive than a divorce."

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
… The naysayers just don’t believe a bike such as mine is worth it, though likely haven’t had enough saddle time on one to appreciate it.

To those disbelievers, and to the OP, my response is, at least I have no buyer’s remorse over what I may be missing
Originally Posted by BluesDawg
:

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-24-15 at 10:21 AM.
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