Buying expensive bikes and parts...
#126
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The Internet really does bring out the worst in some folks. Funny thing for me is that the rude comments about my commuter bike have virtually all been on the Internet and the rude comments about my Venge have almost all been in person. In person, though, allows me to discuss the matter with the person, which I enjoy.
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Dare I ask why? The Sp. Venge series are pretty awesome looking bikes - they had one at "my" LBS that they special ordered for someone - I thought it was "futuristic" looking in a way.
What's not to like?
What's not to like?
#128
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Yeehaa! The HTFU troll rides again! https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...ones-htfu.html and https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespee...e-gearing.html I'm not going to read all this but I bet your point is "If they aren't faster than me they shouldn't ride a nicer bike." You should get over your bike envy.
Best wishes with the holidays.
#129
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i have WI platform pedals and clips. That is apparently a sin beyond acceptance. Also, I do not wear tight fitting kit, so I am wasting the aero effects. The pedals are due to very worn knees that no longer put up with clipless. No tight fitting clothes, given aero effects are beyond me. I just really like the bike, the looks, the ride, and it is the fastest bike I have owned.
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Your posts speak for themselves.
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It's easier to put people down for their excess and extravagance than it is to put them down for their struggle. Even if people have money in their old age most have had their own difficulties much fewer people have been rich the whole time or at all and not understanding people doing what they've got to do. And after a certain point ridiculously expensive bikes are wholly unnecessary.
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If you look at bike prices Eddy and Greg rode on back in the day and convert to 2015 dollars, you will find it a whole lot more. They also rode state of cycling technology back then; what they would ride today is completely different.
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But that wasn't the point, which is = $1,000 - $1,500 will purchase a high quality used bike with components that are desirable and dependable. If you go back far enough to adapt to friction shifting (bar-end or downtube) the same money buys a bike that was race caliber in its' day.
The same money today gets an entry level CF frame with dependable mid-range components.
Consumer make the choice. Value is a subjective, point-of-view concept.
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#134
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One cool thing about bikes is that what pros ride is within reach of many, when compared to things like MotoGP bikes or race cars. Much different in many ways, but still interesting,
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I think you're really off here. The clear majority of people doing upgrades are doing it for performance. Things like lighter frames, deep aero wheels, electronic shifting, aero clothes and helmets, etc., all give a performance boat, although some is slight. The second reason is because it's their hobby/interest/passion and they enjoy nicer things. The proportion of vein people that do it for self-image is small.
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I totally agree with you.
But that wasn't the point, which is = $1,000 - $1,500 will purchase a high quality used bike with components that are desirable and dependable. If you go back far enough to adapt to friction shifting (bar-end or downtube) the same money buys a bike that was race caliber in its' day.
The same money today gets an entry level CF frame with dependable mid-range components.
Consumer make the choice. Value is a subjective, point-of-view concept.
But that wasn't the point, which is = $1,000 - $1,500 will purchase a high quality used bike with components that are desirable and dependable. If you go back far enough to adapt to friction shifting (bar-end or downtube) the same money buys a bike that was race caliber in its' day.
The same money today gets an entry level CF frame with dependable mid-range components.
Consumer make the choice. Value is a subjective, point-of-view concept.
#137
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I think you're really off here. The clear majority of people doing upgrades are doing it for performance. Things like lighter frames, deep aero wheels, electronic shifting, aero clothes and helmets, etc., all give a performance boat, although some is slight. The second reason is because it's their hobby/interest/passion and they enjoy nicer things. The proportion of vein people that do it for self-image is small.
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I definitely enjoy having people compliment me on the component choices, paint scheme, design etc. of my bikes and I'd be lying if I said that had nothing to do with the choices I make. But by far the top consideration is always what will work best for me.
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I must be an overachiever, I found IDGAF at an earlier age.
On topic, I just built my SS MTB. I could have spent more, but some decisions did not make sense for me. For example, CF rims would have only saved me a tiny bit of weight, but would have cost about 4 times as much. I think bikes like this are awesome, and some current high end bikes would do nothing for me. But, someone else might choke on how much this bike cost me.
On topic, I just built my SS MTB. I could have spent more, but some decisions did not make sense for me. For example, CF rims would have only saved me a tiny bit of weight, but would have cost about 4 times as much. I think bikes like this are awesome, and some current high end bikes would do nothing for me. But, someone else might choke on how much this bike cost me.
A firm believer in form follows function and I acquire things...cars/bikes/homes/wives/whatever...that work for me, not to impress others.
Last edited by ltxi; 12-23-15 at 08:58 PM.
#140
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What's expensive these days? I've been told that the AVERAGE price of bike going out of a bike shop in the US is $1500. It's all pretty subjective. It all depends on how much value the bike provides for you. 3-5k is reasonable for a bike that provides a lot of valuable use and recreation. Spending $150 on a department store bike can be a complete waste, buying the latest, greatest crotch rocket just to impress people can be just as wasteful.
It just depends on your values.
Marc
It just depends on your values.
Marc
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Not surprised by the $1500 figure. I've been shopping a bit myself and that seems to be the price point where the bulk of well equipped bikes are.
From my experience, it seems $500 is the ticket for an 'entry level' bike with a Sora or Claris groupset. Then it kind of gets shaky between than and $1500. Might be lighter, might have a better groupset; or indeed might just be an entry level bike that's overpriced. Once you hit $1500, there's a long of bang for the buck again. You're getting into 105 or better groupsets, lighter frames, better geometry, etc. It seems, in my perspective, that above that the bikes get better; but only marginally and incrementally.
It seems to me that the difference between a $500 and $1500 bike is pretty significant, whilst the difference between the $1500 bike and a $5000 bike is much less discernible.
From my experience, it seems $500 is the ticket for an 'entry level' bike with a Sora or Claris groupset. Then it kind of gets shaky between than and $1500. Might be lighter, might have a better groupset; or indeed might just be an entry level bike that's overpriced. Once you hit $1500, there's a long of bang for the buck again. You're getting into 105 or better groupsets, lighter frames, better geometry, etc. It seems, in my perspective, that above that the bikes get better; but only marginally and incrementally.
It seems to me that the difference between a $500 and $1500 bike is pretty significant, whilst the difference between the $1500 bike and a $5000 bike is much less discernible.
#142
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Not surprised by the $1500 figure. I've been shopping a bit myself and that seems to be the price point where the bulk of well equipped bikes are.
From my experience, it seems $500 is the ticket for an 'entry level' bike with a Sora or Claris groupset. Then it kind of gets shaky between than and $1500. Might be lighter, might have a better groupset; or indeed might just be an entry level bike that's overpriced. Once you hit $1500, there's a long of bang for the buck again. You're getting into 105 or better groupsets, lighter frames, better geometry, etc. It seems, in my perspective, that above that the bikes get better; but only marginally and incrementally.
It seems to me that the difference between a $500 and $1500 bike is pretty significant, whilst the difference between the $1500 bike and a $5000 bike is much less discernible.
From my experience, it seems $500 is the ticket for an 'entry level' bike with a Sora or Claris groupset. Then it kind of gets shaky between than and $1500. Might be lighter, might have a better groupset; or indeed might just be an entry level bike that's overpriced. Once you hit $1500, there's a long of bang for the buck again. You're getting into 105 or better groupsets, lighter frames, better geometry, etc. It seems, in my perspective, that above that the bikes get better; but only marginally and incrementally.
It seems to me that the difference between a $500 and $1500 bike is pretty significant, whilst the difference between the $1500 bike and a $5000 bike is much less discernible.
One issue on the lower priced road bikes is wheels. However, great wheels usually do not start showing up on road bikes, from what I have seen, until the price goes way up. So, if I was road bike hunting I would factor in a wheelset upgrade.
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I think you're really off here. The clear majority of people doing upgrades are doing it for performance. Things like lighter frames, deep aero wheels, electronic shifting, aero clothes and helmets, etc., all give a performance boat, although some is slight. The second reason is because it's their hobby/interest/passion and they enjoy nicer things. The proportion of vein people that do it for self-image is small.
That's fine with me, by the way, people can buy whatever they like and good luck to them. But for the recreational rider who doesn't train seriously, the difference in their personal performance between the $3000 dollar bike and the $10000 dollar bike is going to be barely visible. They simply aren't fit enough to exploit the advantage. So it isn't that they really want to be fast, it's that they want their bike to be. In my experience, anyway.
#144
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Yeehaa! The HTFU troll rides again! https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plus...ones-htfu.html and https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespee...e-gearing.html I'm not going to read all this but I bet your point is "If they aren't faster than me they shouldn't ride a nicer bike." You should get over your bike envy.
You comment negatively, but admit you haven't fully read the thread, and you search through someone's posting history to find something to criticise.
Merry Christmas.
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#146
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one thing I am still curious about is where people draw the line regarding low, middle, high, and ridiculous for bike prices.
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Your latter point - that they are doing it because it's their interest and they like nice things - is much stronger than your first, in my experience. Yes, the things they are buying are higher performance components, but in many if not most cases they don't attempt to perform at a high enough level to see significant benefit. A set of deepmsection Firecrest wheels isn't going to help much if you're riding around at recovery pace.
That's fine with me, by the way, people can buy whatever they like and good luck to them. But for the recreational rider who doesn't train seriously, the difference in their personal performance between the $3000 dollar bike and the $10000 dollar bike is going to be barely visible. They simply aren't fit enough to exploit the advantage. So it isn't that they really want to be fast, it's that they want their bike to be. In my experience, anyway.
That's fine with me, by the way, people can buy whatever they like and good luck to them. But for the recreational rider who doesn't train seriously, the difference in their personal performance between the $3000 dollar bike and the $10000 dollar bike is going to be barely visible. They simply aren't fit enough to exploit the advantage. So it isn't that they really want to be fast, it's that they want their bike to be. In my experience, anyway.
In contrast, given that you can feel the difference, literally, on a mountain bike at much lower speeds, the price break goes up much higher. I believe that most good and experienced riders can feel and enjoy the difference all the way up to the $8,000-9,000 bikes. Now, the $3,000-5,000 bikes are great bikes, do not get me wrong. But, those extra dollars bring about suspension, brake, and wheel differences that are noticeable. Then, the $10,000 plus bikes are difficult to squeeze out, notice the difference above the $8,000-9,000 bikes, given at that point it is mostly weight that makes a bigger difference for elite riders than good riders.
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Were I to replace my ageing carbon race bike it would probably cost me around $4000 to get the modern 11-speed equivalent. More if I went to electronic shifting. I probably wouldn't pay for that upgrade, though, because I'm not racing anymore and Ultegra/105 mechanical shifting is perfectly adequate for my needs. But I wouldn't consider it "ridiculous" for someone to pay more, if they had some objective in mind that the superior machine would help them achieve, or even if they just liked the bells and whistles. The latter motivation doesn't apply to me, I've never been mechanically inclined and I don't really take particular pleasure in the machinery per se. My priorities are a perfect fit and a level of performance that doesn't constrain me.
As for cheap? My cheapest bike is the FG/SS I mainly ride around town, lock up outside the pub and so on. I could replace that for maybe $600.
EDIT: You're right, btw, my perspective is that of a roadie. I can't comment on the price points of MTBs, I don't do all that muddy stuff... .
Last edited by chasm54; 12-24-15 at 09:38 AM.
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I startd those two threads with honest intentions, and some attempt at humor. I did not do a good enough job describing the situation, nor my intentions. So, a couple of folks who apparently like to go after others on the Internet made a big deal out of what was a little deal. The funny part to me is that I tell myself th HTFU about every other ride. I believe we all at times find something difficult, and some days we have every right to take the easy route, and other days we should go fo it. I have been very happy that this thread has stayed, overall, very well behaved. We are a bunch of bike enthusiasts and it is nice to be able to exchange thoughts without hostility.
one thing I am still curious about is where people draw the line regarding low, middle, high, and ridiculous for bike prices.
one thing I am still curious about is where people draw the line regarding low, middle, high, and ridiculous for bike prices.
I think people draw it in different places, based on their skinflintyness, their view of their relevant cost/benefit parameters for their optimization, their luddityness (making up all kinds of words here).
As for me, I'm a skinflinty luddite and my benefit parameters for the optimization problem lean heavily in the direction of verified functionality instead of bling. So FWIW, my lines (for a new bike) are:
500-1000, 1000-2000, 2001-5000, 5000+
All of my bikes, save for one, fall into the low price realm.
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Buying expensive bikes and parts...
it seems that the topic of buying expensive bikes has become the newest popcorn thread of 2015.
it seems that the topic of buying expensive bikes has become the newest popcorn thread of 2015.
See these threads from this summer for opposing points of view:
”Are expensive bikes necessary? (Moral conundrum.)
My new $7,000 bike and the futility of justifying the price to the average person.
I once read this definition on BF of a really nice bike, "Lighter than a f@rt, and more expensive than a divorce."
”Are expensive bikes necessary? (Moral conundrum.)
My new $7,000 bike and the futility of justifying the price to the average person.
I once read this definition on BF of a really nice bike, "Lighter than a f@rt, and more expensive than a divorce."
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-24-15 at 10:21 AM.