msu2001la

Agree. I think the removal process for the Zipp freehub is basically to remove the wheel from the frame and watch it fall off. I don't think you even need to remove the cassette.

sean.hwy

My dt 240exp hub came off just the other day. Not even sure what I was doing at the time. I thought it took a special tool to remove it. ha-ha

SoSmellyAir

Well, at least the DT 350 freehub looks easier to re-assemble per DT's manual; I am not sure I would know how to reassemble a freehub with pawls.

SoSmellyAir

Terske Ti tubeless valves are on sale ($10 off) at Amazon.com so I ordered a pair:

Amazon.com : Terske Titanium Tubeless Presta Valve Stems Light, Strong & Serviceable : Sports & Outdoors

Reviews say these have a wider opening at the base compared to some other tubeless valves.

Koyote

SoSmellyAir , you must have these wheels by now. Any impressions to share? I hope you like them!

SoSmellyAir

Just took the wheels out of the box to weigh and register them for the Specialized/Roval warranty.

Weights with Roval rim tape, tubeless valves, and spoke sticker: 644 g (front) + 746 g (rear) = 1,390 g (total).

SoSmellyAir

The Roval Terra CL wheelset is still for sale at $1,312.

Roval Terra CL Wheelset | Specialized.com

Competitive Cyclist is having an extra 10% sale on Shimano GRX WH-RX870 gravel wheelset for $1,008 + $40 shipping.

Shimano GRX WH-RX870 Carbon Gravel Wheelset - Tubeless - Components (competitivecyclist.com)

Interestingly, the GRX rim has the same dimensions as the Terra CL rim: 32 mm deep, 30 mm wide (external), 25 mm wide (internal). However, the GRX wheelset weighs 1,484 g, and only has 18 points of engagement.

SHIMANO GRX GRAVEL WHEEL REVIEW - Road Bike Action

Is a $300 savings worth an almost extra 100 g and only half the engagement points? I suppose that is for each rider to decide.

No, I still have not installed tubeless tires onto my wheels. Now that the weather is good, I have been mostly riding my road bike.

Koyote

I think the bigger factor is that the Shimano wheels have cup and cone bearings, while the Roval wheels come with cartridge bearings in the DT 350 hubs. It’s just a question of whether you want to do an occasional overhaul on the Shimano hubs. If you do a lot of gravel riding in nasty conditions – – like rain and mud – – then the cartridge bearings will definitely be lower maintenance in the long run.

if you don’t know how to overhaul cup and cone bearings, or you just aren’t comfortable doing it yourself, factor in that additional expense. For the conditions in which I’m riding, I would definitely be overhauling them at least once per year. If you’re paying someone to do that, you’ll blow the $300 price difference in just a few years.

SoSmellyAir

Thanks for noting the bearing difference; less complex maintenance is definitely the way to go for me.

mstateglfr 

Modern designed cup and cone bearings take like 5 minutes to overhaul. They spin incredibly well too.
And for what it's worth, Shimano is moving to cartridge bearings.
https://bikerumor.com/new-shimano-hu...ar-affordable/

For what it's worth and all, since you already bought wheels, guess this is for others that may read this later.

I'll still not understand the appeal when btlos and light offer more for less, but everyone has different priorities.

SoSmellyAir

Yes, but the specific Shimano GRX wheels I had linked to still use cup and cone bearings.

Mostly. Just because I bought wheels does not mean I am not curious about other wheels.

As Koyote noted above, the Roval Terra CL has the top-of-the-line gravel rim from Specialized, the same rim as its $2,500 Terra CLX, but with the more basic DT Swiss 350 (36T) hub.

At Light Bicycle, to get close to the same weight with the same hubs, the most comparable is WR35 (flyweight version) with CX Ray spokes and aluminum nipples, which comes out to about $950 + $40 handling + $175 UPS. That is a < $150 difference.

shelbyfv

Any opinions of the Roval Terra C ? 200g heavier but about half the price. Thanks.

Koyote

I hope you intend the “5 minutes“ remark as hyperbole, because I doubt that the best mechanic in the world could overhaul such hubs in only five minutes.

I’m also curious about the meaning of “modern design” cup and cone bearing hubs. Is there some new type of cup and cone bearings that I haven’t heard about?

They do spin incredibly well… I’ll give you that. Though I’m not sure that they are any better than good cartridge bearing hubs in that regard.

mstateglfr 

First, I fully recognize that how a wheel spins on a stand is not indicative of how it spins when in use. Quality cup and cone hubs, even 40 year old versions, seem to be frictionless when spun on a stand, especially compared to all the cartridge hubs I have owned. But I totally understand that there are no applied forces in a stand and wheel dynamics are complex. Just mentioning that since it is something I see frequently(people swear cup and cone are 'better' because they spin forever without load).

As for the 5 minutes, it really wasnt hyperbole. But it was admittedly specific to basic preventative maintentance. Basically, open the hub, shoot in some fresh grease, close it up. That doesnt take long with the modern Shimano hub design.
If there is a lot of work to be done because bearings are ruined, yes it will take longer than 5 minutes to swap out the balls, clean everything, check for damage, yada yada. But if a cartridge bearing is ruined, that also isnt exactly a quick swap and takes probably just as long as replacing and cleaning the guts of a cup and cone hub.

The modern Shimano hub design needs a 15mm cone wrench and a 5mm allen in order to open. Unthread one side, keep the dust shield in place while filling the cavity with grease, pull the axle and fill the other cavity with grease, then replace the axle and thread the axle cap back on. The two tools are needed to then set the preload and tighten.
That is what I was referring to when I posted that its a fast process.


Really wasnt trying to be contentious with the prior post- just relaying my experience with modern Shimano looseball hubs, which is that they are long lasting, easy to service, and fast to service.
On my current bikes I have 3 with Shimano cup and cone hubs, and 3 with various brands which use cartridge bearing hubs. On those 6 wheelsets, I have spent longer trying to remove stuck cassettes that have etched their way into 'anti-bite' freehubs that use cartridge bearings, than I have spent servicing the guts of modern Shimano hubs.
I like the cartridge hub wheelsets more though- the ones on my 2 most ridden bikes are lighter than cup and cone bearings and have proven to be basically no maintenance for however many thousands of miles.

Koyote

What you described isn't really a hub "overhaul," and I still think it would take most people more than five minutes. Hell, just getting the preload correct often takes several attempts. But I get your point: servicing such hubs isn't really a big deal. I learned from a youtube video many years ago. It's just something that many people would rather avoid. (Overhauling hubs, as I'm sure you know, means removing everything, thoroughly cleaning everything with degreaser, replacing the bearings and packing with fresh grease, and re-assembling.)

I get your other point, too: cup & cone hubs are smooth. I had a very cheap set of such wheels on my SS commuter bike. The whole bike was about $550, so the hubs were some no-name made-in-taiwan junk...The first time I opened them up, the races were already scored -- they probably came that way when new. But still, with some new grade 25 ball bearings and a fresh load of grease, they did indeed spin for days on end in the workstand. BUT: for my gravel bike, which routinely gets ridden in nasty conditions (rain, dirt, dust, mud galore), I prefer cartridge bearings. My five-year old DT 350 hubs have about 14k miles on them, and they still spin as well as when new.

SoSmellyAir

Koyote and mstateglfr I thought a cup and cone bearing system has loose ball bearings so if someone inexperienced (like me) opens one up, the ball bearings would just fall out, roll away, and some of them would disappear forever? To me, the advantage of the DT Swiss 350 hub is that there are detailed instructions for both its assembly and disassembly, and if I somehow mess up the cartridge bearings during maintenance (which seems quite a bit harder to do so compared to a cup and cone setup), replacements and/or upgrades are readily available at reasonable costs. Not to mention there is no preload to adjust.

Koyote

It would actually be kind of hard to lose the ball bearings from a hub like that… And even if you did, no matter: if you’re going to it open up to service it, it’s best to just replace them anyway. And those common sizes are readily available at any bike shop or on Amazon.

It sounds like you probably don’t have experience with that sort of maintenance, which is understandable, since such hubs are becoming rarer nowadays. It’s not difficult to learn, and you’d only need a couple of new tools, most likely. But I do prefer cartridge bearing hubs, because they just don’t need maintenance very often; and when they do, you just chick out the cartridge and stick in a new one.

SoSmellyAir

I had considered this wheelset too but sprung for the Terra CL, so no experience here. My thoughts about the Terra C:

1. Proper gravel rim dimensions, i.e., 25 mm internal width, and still slightly lighter than my 19 mm IW 45 mm deep road wheels.
2. Roval states that the rim is made via Resin Transfer Molding ("RTM"). Interestingly, this is also how Time makes its frames:

Technology RTM – TIME - SHOP (timebicycles.com)

3. 18T freehub should be upgradeable 36T:

DT Swiss 36t Star Ratchet Kit: 2 star ratchets, 2 springs and grease - Modern Bike

4. But I have a weird hang up about J-bend spokes.

mstateglfr 

Koyote explained it all well, but Ill just add that if the balls literally roll away when you remove the axle, then the hub itself is probably shot because that means there is 0 grease in the cup, the races are probably wrecked. Grease in the hub, even contaminated grease, will hold the balls in place. You just fish them out with needlenose pliers or the end of a ziptie and place them aside in a small bowl. Once everything is clean, toss em back in(or replace with new ones).

This really is a 'to each their own' sort of scenario because it isnt right to want one type of wheel and isnt wrong to want another type of wheel. Many enjoy the maintenance side of cycling and many dont. Totally cool either way. I remembered you built up a bike from a frame last year, so I just assumed you had interest/confidence in basic hub maintenance. Again though, totally cool either way as there is no right or wrong way to do things.
...Though by Shimano's gradual move to cartridge bearings, the market for aftermarket wheels will be like 96% cartridge and 4% Campy cup and cone loose ball.

SoSmellyAir

DT Swiss 350 freehub is so quiet that I can hear myself think. Thank you to Eric F for convincing me to ditch the stock Maxxis Ramblers; the GravelKing SKs do roll more smoothly on paved roads.