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PBP 2023 registration thread

Old 01-14-23, 12:31 PM
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unterhausen
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PBP 2023 registration thread

I see that people have already registered (and crashed the website). This is a thread to talk about that and whatever else PBP-related discussions seem salient now.

I didn't ride any acp km last year, and I'm not sure I'm going to register or not. Maybe pre-register. But if I were, I decided last time that starting in group G wasn't a great idea for me. There were only people that wanted to catch the 80 hour group and there were stiff headwinds. The headwinds die down at dusk, so starting later isn't a horrible thing. Just sleep late, which if you're from the U.S., shouldn't be too hard.

I don't know if the site is back up, but they asked not to contact them, they know about it.

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Old 01-14-23, 01:50 PM
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Watch the open spots disappear here! https://myaccount.audax-club-parisie...cueil&orga=pbp
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Old 01-14-23, 03:50 PM
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That's barely a dent so far. The biggest group probably had a 600k last year, but I'm not sure when the French get to register. I think people that had shorter distances are less likely to sign up.
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Old 01-15-23, 08:10 AM
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I'm waffling on pre registration... I did two 600 last year, but I also screwed up my knee on a 1200 and was a long time recovering, haven't managed anything more than 90km since then... also packed on a few pounds too. I was thinking of just waiting to see what is left toward the end of May; make sure I can handle a 300/400 and save the 50 euro if I can't. I'd like to do the 84h start this time and try to spend less time faffing about on the outbound leg, now that I've seen it all.
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Old 01-15-23, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
[...]
I decided last time that starting in group G wasn't a great idea for me. There were only people that wanted to catch the 80 hour group and there were stiff headwinds. The headwinds die down at dusk, so starting later isn't a horrible thing.
True if there is a substantial depression over the Atlantic.
The more you’ll approach the sea, the less likely it is to be the case, in particular in August.
Upon entering Britanny, you can expect a so-called “ Coastal effect” generating a Thermic Breeze” , with headwinds during the day, since temperatures climb faster inland than over the sea and the opposite at night time since its the sea which cools down faster.

There’s a narrow window, in summer, when Inshore temp = offshore temp with no wind at all, twice a day.
As the crow fly, Paris isn’t that far from the coast, depending upon weather systems, that’s, IMHO, worth considering.
Indulge in a nap in the afternoon instead of fighting a headwind and ride at night, instead.


https://www.culture-maritime.com/fr/...e2_cours.xhtml
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Old 01-15-23, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
That's barely a dent so far. The biggest group probably had a 600k last year, but I'm not sure when the French get to register. I think people that had shorter distances are less likely to sign up.
Pour permettre à un maximum de cyclistes français de participer, l’Audax Club Parisien, a décidé de leur réserver, le plus longtemps possible, 2 500 dossiers.“

Source :https://cyclotourisme-mag.com/2022/0...ndonneur-2023/

Love the picture of the makeshift accommodation for cyclists in a barn.
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Old 01-15-23, 09:52 AM
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They had to reserve slots for French riders because traditionally there were a lot of French riders that only did the qualifications in PBP years. It's in everyone's best interest to have as many French riders as possible to maintain popular support for the ride. Which is flagging, I think.

That's an interesting picture of the barn. I have heard of people making sleeping accommodations for riders. There was one family just outside of Ambrières-les-Vallées that had a couple of beds made up outside of their garage. I stopped in for a biscuit, it was fun talking to them even if they were trying to talk me into quitting the ride They are too close to Villaines-la-Juhel for it to make much sense to stop.

There is a bar in Trévé (I think) just outside of Loudeac that apparently will let you sleep there. But you have to know about it.
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Old 01-15-23, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
They had to reserve slots for French riders because traditionally there were a lot of French riders that only did the qualifications in PBP years. It's in everyone's best interest to have as many French riders as possible to maintain popular support for the ride. Which is flagging, I think.

That's an interesting picture of the barn. I have heard of people making sleeping accommodations for riders. There was one family just outside of Ambrières-les-Vallées that had a couple of beds made up outside of their garage. I stopped in for a biscuit, it was fun talking to them even if they were trying to talk me into quitting the ride They are too close to Villaines-la-Juhel for it to make much sense to stop.

There is a bar in Trévé (I think) just outside of Loudeac that apparently will let you sleep there. But you have to know about it.

Salut Unterhausen ( do you live in a cave sous des maisons?)

I am picking up an interest in that ride (Go figure), so started to read about it, apparently, if I got it right (?) doing the qualifications during the PBP year is a requirement (at least for French, Dunno i.e. foreign riders ?) ??

Tour de France French riders are a minority, it never impacted its popularity.

If you looked, in their eyes, not necessarily yours, exhausted, talking you to quit the ride is a normal behavior to be expected from kind people.

Exactly, you have to know about it, something which gives french and veteran riders a competitive advantage vs rookies and foreign riders.

If it isn’t Off topic, please let me know, I’ll see what I can do share as much as possible useful information about these places “good to know about “ that some are aware of the existence whilst others are not.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Claude.fr
If it isn’t Off topic, please let me know, I’ll see what I can do share as much as possible useful information about these places “good to know about “ that some are aware of the existence whilst others are not.
This forum has a wide reach -- you'll just want to be careful not to get 5000 people clamoring for 1 spot in the back of a bar.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Claude.fr
Salut Unterhausen ( do you live in a cave sous des maisons?)
Tour de France French riders are a minority, it never impacted its popularity.
I don't see anything wrong about listing places where you can stop. There is a real disadvantage to stopping away from the controls, so I doubt anyone is going to be flooded with people who need to sleep.

There have been route changes because towns didn't like all the lights coming through at all hours. Plus the boulangeries are quickly sold out during PBP (I just made this up, but I have often wondered about it). Villaines-la-Juhel has a 4 day party during PBP, not too many other places do that.

My real name is a word for basement. So my username is a bad translation into German that someone used to call my father. I always thought it was funny.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I don't see anything wrong about listing places where you can stop. There is a real disadvantage to stopping away from the controls, so I doubt anyone is going to be flooded with people who need to sleep.

There have been route changes because towns didn't like all the lights coming through at all hours.

Could you please explain about that disadvantage, I don’t understand.

Maybe, it’s me, like our Swiss guy yesterday, but I am more likely to have a couple of hours of profound, deep sleep that’ll do me a lot of good, somewhere quiet, than surrounded by people at a control.
Genuinely don’t get it.
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Old 01-15-23, 04:07 PM
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The main advantage to sleeping at a control is certainty. You can get your card stamped and go to sleep and not have to worry about being late to a control. I think only Loudeac on the first day has a problem with availability, because it's the natural sleep spot for most people. They don't disqualify you for being late to a control on the road any more, and I think all you have to do is finish in time. But they don't tell you that.

I wanted to sleep at Tintineac on the way back, but there was no way I was going to make it. I was just too tired. I have no trouble going to sleep right away even in a big room full of randonneurs that snore. It's the best thing that I have learned from randonneuring.

TIL my name is "cave" in French. I'm not sure how to use this newfound knowledge.
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Old 01-16-23, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
The main advantage to sleeping at a control is certainty. You can get your card stamped and go to sleep and not have to worry about being late to a control. I think only Loudeac on the first day has a problem with availability, because it's the natural sleep spot for most people. They don't disqualify you for being late to a control on the road any more, and I think all you have to do is finish in time. But they don't tell you that.

I wanted to sleep at Tintineac on the way back, but there was no way I was going to make it. I was just too tired. I have no trouble going to sleep right away even in a big room full of randonneurs that snore. It's the best thing that I have learned from randonneuring.

TIL my name is "cave" in French. I'm not sure how to use this newfound knowledge.

Une cave (“a” sound as in attaché-case) is a great place where you can sample wine, nothing derogatory.
Cool place, when there’s a heatwave, also.

Thanks for your kind explanation.
Different mind set here (aren’t these cultural differences great in an increasingly standardized, “uniform-ized” world).
If I am ever to ride PBP, step one, Yellow pages, search words “exploitation agricole” (farm), along the road, at strategic locations.

Phone calls : Hi !, I am a would-be PBP rider looking for a barn where I could crash for a couple of hours, could I stop in your farm if needed?”.
Boom done !
Before I leave, I have a laminated cue sheet strapped to my handle bar, depending upon my average speed, weather conditions (rain, headwinds), I have various pre-planned options ready.
I know in advance where I can stop, refill bottles and sleep.
Result: Stress free enjoyable ride.

Actual chances that I’ll sleep in a barn are pretty slim, let’s be honest, I am more likely to be told that I am very much welcome and that there’ll be a bed waiting for me.

The best thing I have learnt from randonneuring is that a bicycle, with bags strapped on it, is a great conversation starter and a vector for simple human interactions with locals.

Nothing beats human warmth when mentally drained and physically exhausted
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Old 01-16-23, 06:26 AM
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The part about PBP that I like is talking to people, even though my French isn't the best. Spent too much time doing that last time, but it wasn't time wasted.

My understanding is the people that have my name got it because they took care of wine/beer cellars.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
The part about PBP that I like is talking to people, even though my French isn't the best. Spent too much time doing that last time, but it wasn't time wasted.j

My understanding is the people that have my name got it because they took care of wine/beer cellars.

So glad to read that, that’s part of the experience, IMHO.
Survival French for you :
Got to go : il faut que j’y aille (correct grammar) colloquially pronounced : Fok gee aye (short ee sound).

Brest or Paris isn’t next door (context, I do enjoy your company but I have still a long way to go) Brest, c’est pas la porte à coté.

Duly “equipped” with these two sentences, you can leave without hurting anybody’s feelings.

Next, we must talk Boulangerie.
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Old 01-16-23, 10:29 AM
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My favourite part of PBP was talking with all the locals... in Loudéac I went into a pub and a regular started talking with me, bought my beer. The bartender and him both told me not to use vous with them. Many other good memories from all the roadside chats.
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Old 01-16-23, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Claude.fr
True if there is a substantial depression over the Atlantic.
The more you’ll approach the sea, the less likely it is to be the case, in particular in August.
Upon entering Britanny, you can expect a so-called “ Coastal effect” generating a Thermic Breeze” , with headwinds during the day, since temperatures climb faster inland than over the sea and the opposite at night time since its the sea which cools down faster.

There’s a narrow window, in summer, when Inshore temp = offshore temp with no wind at all, twice a day.
As the crow fly, Paris isn’t that far from the coast, depending upon weather systems, that’s, IMHO, worth considering.
Indulge in a nap in the afternoon instead of fighting a headwind and ride at night, instead.


https://www.culture-maritime.com/fr/...e2_cours.xhtml

Could you explain the wind patterns for the dense (me).

Let's say I arrive Loudeac at 6 am and get to Brest at 1-3 pm, would I have the slight tailwinds until coming down into Brest down the "Roc"? And more importantly, would I expect a tailwind leaving Brest? In my three times (plus some touring in the area), it gets to 37-42F in the valleys especially Tintineac to Fougeres. Or would you advise taking an afternoon nap in Brest to profit from the wind later? The section 190km approx. from Brest to Loudeac tends to have a lot of climbing is probably the most wooded section whereas from Loudeac to Mortagne is pretty open going with wavy up and down rolling terrain w/o a lot of trees. In 2019, there was headwind in both directions on this Loudeac to Mortagne stretch and was kind of hard. I really did not think about wind that time and just rode how I felt.
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Old 01-16-23, 12:54 PM
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Also, why does Roc'h Trevezel have a 'h?

It seems to me that a low pressure cell in the Atlantic causes a tailwind outbound from Paris. But I'm no weatherman.
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Old 01-16-23, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Could you explain the wind patterns for the dense (me).

Let's say I arrive Loudeac at 6 am and get to Brest at 1-3 pm, would I have the slight tailwinds until coming down into Brest down the "Roc"? And more importantly, would I expect a tailwind leaving Brest? In my three times (plus some touring in the area), it gets to 37-42F in the valleys especially Tintineac to Fougeres. Or would you advise taking an afternoon nap in Brest to profit from the wind later? The section 190km approx. from Brest to Loudeac tends to have a lot of climbing is probably the most wooded section whereas from Loudeac to Mortagne is pretty open going with wavy up and down rolling terrain w/o a lot of trees. In 2019, there was headwind in both directions on this Loudeac to Mortagne stretch and was kind of hard. I really did not think about wind that time and just rode how I felt.

Today, there’s a huge massive depression heading its regular way, West-> East, that storm has even been given a name : Gérard.
Strong wind which peaked at 160km/h 99.41 miles/h South of Brest.

Not a single chance for a coastal effect.

If you have a similar, even weaker, weather system in August, it’ll take the upper hand over the Coastal Effect.

Ditto, anticyclonic weather system, in summer, with high pressure, in this case you are more likely to experience a cross wind South-> North.
No Coastal Effect.

Link I posted yesterday is meant to explain the weather effect to children.
Little drawing with a sun is... you’ve guessed it....daytime
Darker with a moon, night time.

Depending upon temperature, at dawn and its speed of increase, that narrow widow, where Inland Temp= Offshore temp = no wind either widens or gets narrower.

Clear blue sky, Temp climb fast : narrow window with no wind.
Cloudy sky, slow Temp climb, window with no wind widens.

If all conditions above are met, on a cloudy day, at 6 in Loudéac, per Coastal Effect, night (tailwind) wind starts dying out, that window with no wind starts to open, you could have 1h with no wind.
Same in the evening.
Then, you have a headwind.

That experience of yours, headwind going West and again headwind going East, (without no major weather system change, e.g. Depression with rain) is an all time classic of that pesky Coastal Effect.
You have had a first hand experience of what it does.
IMHO, I insist, all conditions described above met, it’s better to ride a long stretch at night going going West, but not recommended to get up early going East, on your way back, and ride during the day, pushed by that wind coming from the sea (if any).
Hope this helps.
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Old 01-16-23, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
Also, why does Roc'h Trevezel have a 'h?

It seems to me that a low pressure cell in the Atlantic causes a tailwind outbound from Paris. But I'm no weatherman.
Not quite, low pressure over the Atlantic, tailwind Brest-> Paris.
Something which is the regular pattern, most of the year, with so-called “Trains de Dépression” (you’d probably describe them as waves ?), following each other.

In area exposed to strong winds, you’ll observe that the trees all lean in the same direction.
Likewise, old farms are built with gable facing West, front door South, to protect their roof from the wind.
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Old 01-16-23, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
Also, why does Roc'h Trevezel have a 'h?
c’h is specific to the Breton language, it’s the 5th letter of the Breton alphabet.
Unicode : U+02BC 

H in English phonetic [ʃ] as in shin.

But
c’h can be pronounced in 2 others distinct ways which don’t exist in French.

I wouldn’t be surprised if English speakers stood a better chance to get the 3 c’h sounds right better than French speakers.
Ask the locals who still speak Breton, a diminishing minority, sadly.

Weirdly, there’s a Wiki entry in French, Breton, Italian, Polish and even Norwegian (Norsk Boksmål) but no entry in English .


https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%27h
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Old 01-16-23, 06:47 PM
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So apparently we are wrong to call it "the Rock." More like "Rah"?
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Old 01-17-23, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
So apparently we are wrong to call it "the Rock." More like "Rah"?
If you pronounce that “h” like a voiceless velar fricative or like a glottal fricative, This is absolutely correct, Sir.

Source Wiki.

- a Voiceless velar fricative

e.g : Scottish English, e.g. in loch, broch or saugh(willow).

- a
Voiced velar fricative

Existed in Old English but no longer in modern English but still exists in Breton.

a Voiceless glottal fricative

sometimes called voiceless glottal transition, and sometimes called the aspirate.

E.g. Irish, shroich or Scottish Gaelic, Ro sheòl.

Exactly, like I anticipated, English speakers, Irish or Gaelic Scot speakers (Celtic cousins of Bretons, so no surprise) stand a better chance to pronounce c’h properly than French speakers.


Edit : Voiced velar no longer exists in modern English.
Math : English speakers 2 in 3 chances to get c’h right vs French 1 in 3.

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Old 01-29-23, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen

There have been route changes because towns didn't like all the lights coming through at all hours. Plus the boulangeries are quickly sold out during PBP

According to this forum, somebody posted screenshots of something which looks official, there are route changes this year.
You and other BF veterans are in a better position than I to identify which/where they are.

There’s, apparently a new loop by Louison Bobet house (wherever it is).
Nothing to do with NIMBYs (would that be theses NIMBYs who mourn their defunct boulagerie, convenience-shop, they never shop from, and café, if so, serves them right).

The idea is to improve cyclists safety.
A one way route facilitates car drivers life, they can overtake cyclists without worrying about other cyclists coming from the opposite direction.

Not a bad idea, when was it that cars became a thing in rural Brittany, 1980 ?
Better late than never....


Paris Brest Paris 2023 - Kikourou

In other non-news, I have lost interest in PBP.
Not doing brevets which routes use busy roads notoriously known for being dangerous and ignore bicycle paths.

There’s a plethora, loads of asphalted, OK with random potholes, country roads, european cyclists are spoilt for choice, but apparently, country roads aren’t good enough.
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Old 01-29-23, 08:59 AM
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It looks like there have been some major changes in the route. There may be a few reasons for the routing choices, including small towns off of the main roads not wanting to be inundated by 8000 cyclists, and being inundated twice can wear on the nerves. It may also be to remove shortcuts, the bigger roads tend to be more direct. I wasn't particularly happy about the routing last time. I recall in 2011 the roads used were quieter. I thought maybe some of it was just population growth and more car usage.

At least bike lights have gotten better than in 2011. There were lots of people using bright lights that would light up the sky, and more importantly, the top floors of people's houses. Now, most people are using lights with a cutoff so they mostly light the road.
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