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Old 02-27-16, 07:05 PM
  #3326  
Dalai
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I'm with TC. You were not starting out when prescribed that training plan Carleton.
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Old 02-27-16, 07:31 PM
  #3327  
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Originally Posted by Dalai
I'm with TC. You were not starting out when prescribed that training plan Carleton.
Are you with me when I say that we shouldn't discuss/debate training plans?
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Old 02-27-16, 07:36 PM
  #3328  
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Originally Posted by carleton
Are you with me when I say that we shouldn't discuss/debate training plans?
Definitely don't agree. Without paying an exorbitant amount of dough, there's nowhere else to find info on them! I liken this place to a virtual infield; we're a bunch of trackies shooting the ****. Who cares if we don't always agree.

TC
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Old 02-27-16, 07:40 PM
  #3329  
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Originally Posted by carleton
Also, to a rank beginner, being on a specialized program has no more benefit than running circles around his house with a backpack full of Cheetos five days a week. I truly believe this (in spirit). This is why new participants in any sport measure crazy gains in the first few months.
We haven't been making very specific training recommendations at all. I'm saying the OP should focus his limited time on the bike. You're saying weights are fine to do. That's far from specific.

If strength is the base of a Sprinting as an exercise, skills are definitely the base of Sprinting as a sport. Without the skills, all the strength that can be gained won't make a bit of difference. At the beginner level, riding the bike leads to exponentially larger gains, both short term and long, than gym work. Gym is all strength; bike is strength, skill, fitness, and CNS.

TC
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Old 02-27-16, 07:47 PM
  #3330  
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Originally Posted by Trackliche
Definitely don't agree. Without paying an exorbitant amount of dough, there's nowhere else to find info on them! I liken this place to a virtual infield; we're a bunch of trackies shooting the ****. Who cares if we don't always agree.

TC
It's not about agreeing as much as it is about misinformation.

Training plans are very specific to the rider. Newbies will ALWAYS write, "What should I do to train??" and there is no easy answer. It's hard enough for a coach that is with an athlete several times/week to do it. Doing so over the internet based on a few sentences will probably do more harm than good. So, it's a good rule of thumb to avoid it.

Did you ever consider that the shooting the **** that we tell this guy to do he may take to heart and do it religiously for the next 6 months?
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Old 02-27-16, 07:57 PM
  #3331  
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Originally Posted by carleton
Did you ever consider that the shooting the **** that we tell this guy to do he may take to heart and do it religiously for the next 6 months?
That seems totally reasonable. Riding his bike really hard the next six months would do him a lot of good, from a sprinting standpoint. Better than spending lots of time lifting and a little bit riding, IMO.

TC
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Old 02-27-16, 08:03 PM
  #3332  
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Originally Posted by Trackliche
That seems totally reasonable. Riding his bike really hard the next six months would do him a lot of good, from a sprinting standpoint. Better than spending lots of time lifting and a little bit riding, IMO.

TC
I think you just did it again!

"I'm not arguing...I'm just explaining why I'm right!"
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Old 02-27-16, 08:18 PM
  #3333  
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Example:

Let's take 2 riders that are twin brothers. Rider A, Rider B. Both want to be sprinters. Both have the exact same genetics but have been participating in different sports over the past few years. But, are newbie track cyclists.

Rider A:

- Lean runner/swimmer's physique.
- Been doing 5Ks and Triathlons. OK results, but not stellar.
- Eats like a runner / tri-geek

Rider B:

- Muscular physique. Big legs, big chest and arms.
- Lifts 4x/week.
- Been playing Rugby and Soccer in serious recreational leagues.
- Eats (and drinks) like a rugby player.


If both of these guys approach the same coach with the plan of being track sprinters, that coach would put them on different winter training plans.

Chances are:

Rider A (lean guy) would be put on a winter plan like this:
- Lift 3x/week. Focus on lower body but need to build up upper body for balance and support.
- Ride 2x/week
- Eat lots to support the muscle growth.
- No more 4-5 hour rides

Rider B (muscular guy)
- Lift 2-3x/week focusing on lower body and not so much upper body. Upper body is for balance and maintenance.
- Ride 3x/week including a long 2-3hr group ride 1x/week
- Log diet and maybe set a caloric cap.





The thing is, we don't know what type of guy it is that posts the "What should I do??" posts.
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Old 02-27-16, 08:21 PM
  #3334  
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This showed up in the bike shop today... should I buy it?



You will notice the lack of handlebars. Custom one piece for the oversized steerer on its way from Italy.

Hard to tell in the pic but the fork is massive. Actually the whole bit is a bit of a brute.
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Old 02-27-16, 08:36 PM
  #3335  
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@carleton I do agree. Way too many variables to offer the best training plan based on the little information provided. So many factors including external stressors that may impact recovery to be able to say a specific plan is suitable.

There is enough literature online to work out your own plan for the first few years (OP hasn't even been accredited to race track and wants to specialise!!??) then if keen either research further or get a track coach.
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Old 02-27-16, 08:38 PM
  #3336  
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@gtrob the Pina didn't get much love on the Track sprinting FB page.
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Old 02-27-16, 08:39 PM
  #3337  
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More info on the new Pinarello bike here:
MAAT 60.1 ? CICLI PINARELLO S.p.A.
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Old 02-27-16, 08:47 PM
  #3338  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
This showed up in the bike shop today... should I buy it?



You will notice the lack of handlebars. Custom one piece for the oversized steerer on its way from Italy.

Hard to tell in the pic but the fork is massive. Actually the whole bit is a bit of a brute.
I've been curious about this bike since it was announced a couple of years ago. I can't recall ever seeing it being raced...by anyone.
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Old 02-27-16, 09:36 PM
  #3339  
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Re: the two bike days, three gym days conversation: Depends on how good a bike rider you are and what you're trying to work on. If the OP is already a crit rider, for example, and wants to try track sprinting, then this is fine in my opinion. If he's just starting out in bike racing, then he should just ride the hell out of a bike until he's good at it. There's some basic questions that need to be asked before we can decide if it's a good training plan.
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Old 02-27-16, 09:46 PM
  #3340  
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Originally Posted by carleton
I've been curious about this bike since it was announced a couple of years ago. I can't recall ever seeing it being raced...by anyone.
The rep claims this is only the 2nd one to even come to north America. I imagine there's only a handful of people riding them in the world at this point.


And for the record I was kidding about buying it, that setup in that picture is worth more than my car lol.


*EDIT to your point Carl, I think they intended to put the UK/Sky team on these bikes for Rio, but then they went to Cervelo. Speculating anyway. I think the Italian team is riding these now but I don't recall much of a track team from that country.
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Old 02-27-16, 09:59 PM
  #3341  
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Originally Posted by carleton
I think you just did it again!

"I'm not arguing...I'm just explaining why I'm right!"
Yes. I am right.

TC
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Old 02-27-16, 10:00 PM
  #3342  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
This showed up in the bike shop today... should I buy it?



You will notice the lack of handlebars. Custom one piece for the oversized steerer on its way from Italy.

Hard to tell in the pic but the fork is massive. Actually the whole bit is a bit of a brute.
That is badass. Like Carelton, I've only seen pictures- never in person. gtrob- is this thing big enough for you?!

TC
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Old 02-27-16, 10:07 PM
  #3343  
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Originally Posted by Dalai
(OP hasn't even been accredited to race track and wants to specialise!!??)
Totally get it. He wants to be a sexy, sweaty, manly beast like the rest of us. Why anyone worships those skinny little bigheads who ride for hours an hours on end up mountains, only to come back down again totally bewilders me. I mean, wouldn't they rather adore someone who eats lots of eggs, grunts endlessly, and rides in never-ending, tiny circles?

I reckon it's like wanting to be a horror novelist.

Dude 1: "Why limit yourself to one tiny genre?!"
Aspiring Novelist: "Because horror novels are awesome, and that's what I want to write."
Trackliche: "Oh, right on."
Carleton: "None of us are getting paid for this anyway!"
All of Us, Collectively: ::sobbing:: ::tears:: ::spend money on thinner tubulars::

TC
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Old 02-27-16, 10:12 PM
  #3344  
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Not even close to fitting lol. If I did I'd probably try it, but it also has a 1 1/4" steerer so you can't just run your normal stem. Pin offers a 100mm and a 130mm, no idea on angles but basically forget having many options to get a fit
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Old 02-27-16, 11:19 PM
  #3345  
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Originally Posted by Trackliche
Totally get it. He wants to be a sexy, sweaty, manly beast like the rest of us.
Racing track definitely - specializing for Track sprinting already though before having raced track yet? Need to remember why we mostly got into the sport in the first place- riding a bicycle. Otherwise just focus on the gym and powerlifting comps and don't waste time on the bike...
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Old 02-28-16, 01:08 AM
  #3346  
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Originally Posted by gtrob
And for the record I was kidding about buying it, that setup in that picture is worth more than my car lol.
Originally Posted by gtrob
Pin offers a 100mm and a 130mm, no idea on angles but basically forget having many options to get a fit
I think this explains why no one is racing it.

$6,000USD for an unproven frame and bars is absurd. The only way LOOK gets to charge $10,000 for their L96 (also absurd) is because they have the medals and jerseys to back it up. This bike has nothing...but a fancy website.

Even when the British made their Superbikes from scratch, they were all adjustable and used standard bars and stems and only used the integrated stem-bar combos for events like Worlds or Olympics after the fits were dialed-in.

It's just silly to make integrated stem-handlebar combos for a mass-market bike. What you lose in terms of adjustability (and the power lost from not having the right fight) is much more than the increased Stiffness (TM)(Copyright) that it provides (if any at all).

A set of B-123s and a 2-bolt stem was stiff enough for the British. And Scattos and Thomson X4 stems were stiff enough for the Australians and Kiwis. Not sure what problem Pina was solving with that setup...yet they made a huge one for their customers.
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Old 02-28-16, 01:14 AM
  #3347  
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Personally, I hate lifting weights and love riding the bike. So, my advice to the OP is to ride the bike for a couple of years and after you have learned the sport and gained as much physical ability from biking alone, then hit the gym.

From a more balanced perspective, I would say enjoy whatever you enjoy doing. So, if you like the gym, hit the gym. Likewise, if you like the bike, hit the bike. If you really feel you need to become a world class cyclist in your first season, hire a coach and don't listen to us guys in the infield. What do we know?
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Old 02-28-16, 08:52 AM
  #3348  
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Originally Posted by carleton
I think this explains why no one is racing it.

$6,000USD for an unproven frame and bars is absurd. The only way LOOK gets to charge $10,000 for their L96 (also absurd) is because they have the medals and jerseys to back it up. This bike has nothing...but a fancy website.

Even when the British made their Superbikes from scratch, they were all adjustable and used standard bars and stems and only used the integrated stem-bar combos for events like Worlds or Olympics after the fits were dialed-in.

It's just silly to make integrated stem-handlebar combos for a mass-market bike. What you lose in terms of adjustability (and the power lost from not having the right fight) is much more than the increased Stiffness (TM)(Copyright) that it provides (if any at all).

A set of B-123s and a 2-bolt stem was stiff enough for the British. And Scattos and Thomson X4 stems were stiff enough for the Australians and Kiwis. Not sure what problem Pina was solving with that setup...yet they made a huge one for their customers.
+1 on silly as hell.
What we most adore about Italian design is also what we most deride them for. It's a matter of accepting that the romantic ridiculous is worth giving up any sense of practicality. May this crazy bike adorn the garage of someone who loves Ferraris and Ducatis as much as the rest of us, but is set apart by the ability and willingness to maintain those things.

What's the old joke? "In Heaven, all the engineers are German, the police are French, and the lovers are Italian, and the banks are Swiss. In Hell, the banks are French, the police are German, the lovers are Swiss, and the engineers are Italian."

TC

TC
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Old 02-28-16, 09:29 AM
  #3349  
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I'm pretty sure those MAATs were under a few riders from Team Wiggins at the most recent Revolution series:






It looks pretty similar, so I don't think it's some kind of prototype. Peep those ruffles on the stays and fork; it looks like it just got a white paint-job. Also note that it seems like you aren't stuck with that integrated bar set-up. Looks like a generic alloy road bar mated to a trick carbon Zipp or 3T stem or something.
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Old 02-28-16, 09:36 AM
  #3350  
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Originally Posted by TrackMonkey7
Also note that it seems like you aren't stuck with that integrated bar set-up. Looks like a generic alloy road bar mated to a trick carbon Zipp or 3T stem or something.
gtrob- No more excuses. Now you HAVE to buy it!

TC
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