Saddle Tripper 

I need some advice and assistance to start on an idea or not. I converted a 1993 Trek 950 by adding 700c rims, carbon fork with Ritchey HS, drop bars, added rim brakes, a Shimano DA triple road crank, long cage XT, 9 speed cassette with DA bar end friction shifters and Ultegra front derailleur. Tires/wheels are narrow Vitoria. This is the current condition. Further details are:

the brakes: I installed a GB Center pull for the rear and Shimano DA side pull caliper on the front. Finding brakes that fit was a challenge and required some research when I delved into this several years ago.

thanks to jimc below, I edited this post to provide more information.

1-1/8” steer tube.

I intend to attach front rear racks if I can find a suitable fork and if I can locate brakes for a wider tire. Is there a brand that would allow for a fatter tire?

is it doable, and practical, to re-convert this to a touring bike with an appropriate fork (what kind and brand), add wider tires? Or in the end, best to acquire an off-shelf touring bike after-all.

is it possible to add disc brakes?

my intent is to ride unsupported cross country on mixed surfaces - paved to gravel, and I am relatively heavy at 260 pounds - 6-4”. Add gear weight to this.

before I go further with this project….I’m seeking input from people much more knowledgeable than I.

moderator: if this is not the correct discussion forum- please advise. Thanks. Tom

ps. My parts bin is more than limited yet I have been tinkering on bikes since my teens - but, I do wonder if it’s best to just acquire a touring bike. My questions are to get at a concern that tinkering on this MTB frame in the end may yield a less than desirable outcome of compromises that perhaps may be an expensive tail chasing endeavor. Sometimes it’s best to just leave things as they were designed and left alone.

dedhed

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nversions.html

Saddle Tripper 

I tried to post pics but I need to have 10 posts before I can add pictures. Thanks for attaching the link. When I am able I will share the pictures. It’s interesting - works reasonably well . But at 63.5 years drop bars may not be practical for my stiff aging bod.

jimc101

The biggest issue with the details given will probably be the brakes then the fork, For the brakes, you make no mention of them, other than rim, you have 2 real option, caliper, which you would need to workout where/how to fit them, and if you're looking at MTB width tire, getting good brakes that fit may be challenging.

If you're looking at fitting linear pull (V brakes) or canti brakes on an adapter to fit the 700c wheels, they do exist, but can be very very hard to find (if you can),

For the fork, what steerer size is the Trek? if it's not 1 1/8", getting a carbon fork may not be possible, it it is 1 1/8" it will still be hard, he industry has moved to tapered, yes there are CF forks out there but they can take some looking for.

For disc brakes, if your going this far, just get a modern frame which has them installed, and was designed for disc brakes in the first place, adding disc to a non-dis bike, the frame won't have strengthening/be braced in the right places, and you may find unexpected corrosion that will kill the frame, and then there is the cost of a paint/powder coat.

For it is viable, a quick Google image search indicates the 1993 950 has a long steerer tube, which is good, for being practical, what do you intend to use it for? as no rack/luggage fit is mentioned; no mention of will the bike fit you either, as having drop bars on a frame designed for flat bar can affect the size of bike you need

From personal experience in doing a 26" MTB drop bar conversion, would stick with 26" wheels, and realize that whatever you do, it will be an on-going project, and will cost far more in setup time and parts to get the bike to fit than you expect, and will never really ride as well as a purpose designed 26" or 700c bike (although that may not be an issue),
The spec that you have listed, Shimano triple road, 9 speed XT and bar end shifters is nice, but unless you already have these, these are all items which today which could be HTF in good condition if buying 2nd hand or have very limited options new, Shimano has been out of the XT level 9 speed for 10+ years and has limited options for road triples today, barends Shimano haven't done 9 speed for years, there are options from Microshift, Dia Compe and Sunrace (you mention friction shifters, but you will still be looking at at shifters that match the speed, unless you want to do the math on how much cable pull is needed by the RD, and how much the shifter gives).
If you have a large spares/parts bin to take parts from/like wrenching on bike and are prepared for compromise, it's a great long term project, if you will need to buy everything, have little experience in fixing bikes, would do a spreadsheet of all the parts needed (down to cables and inner tubes) and see how viable it is vs just buying a complete bike, esp if you actually want to ride it. Is it worth it, only you can answer that.

Saddle Tripper 

Thank you. I’ll edit my posting further and provide details where I can. You bring up the points and issues that motivated this discussion. Tom

Camilo

Just to comment on this item, there aren't a bunch of "name brand" (as opposed to generic no-name types), but 1" CF forks are actually not that hard to find. Columbus Minimal (threadless), Wound Up (threadless or threaded), and I believe Ritchey also make a threadless. There might be others, but those are pretty easy to find.

Now, for touring, getting one with the leg length, tire clearance, attachment points etc. for the touring stuff, I don't know.

seat_boy

If you want fatter tires and stronger wheels, put the original fork and 26" wheels back on there. Honestly, trying to put 700c wheels on this bike doesn't give you anything but headaches and a tall bottom bracket.

jimc101

I did say 'may', yes there are 1" forks out there, but you need to search for them, all are road forks, with caliper brakes / for narrow road tires and the cost factor hasn't been mentioned much, you probably don't want to look at the price of a Wound Up fork, they ain't cheap (the 1" question is only relevant if the frame has that spec), however thinking about it further, going by images of the 1993 frame, which has a long steerer tube already, putting a 700c fork on the frame is question will probably mess up the geometry so much that the bike is totally unrideable.

Saddle Tripper 

Thanks to each - for your insights and comments. I’ll watch this thread play out with other contributors, think it through, but in the end… I may just end up leaving it as-is and take steps forward with a brand touring bike. I suspect I will get further down the road, a little faster than having a potentially endless tinkering adventure.

Bill Kapaun

+1
You can get tires as skinny as 32mm without problem. (26x1.25") I run a 32mm up front and a 40mm rear on my "grocery getter" Rockhopper.
I'm 235 and at times will have 60 pounds in my rear baskets.
With your weight + cargo + gravel, you may actually want something a bit fatter.

Camilo

I was just commenting that 1" CF forks are not hard to find. Really, I could find one to buy within maybe 15 minutes. I did make the disclaimer about whether they were suitable for the OP (My guess is no), and no comment on the cost, (I know they're expensive, especially Wound Up as you pointed out) But that doesn't speak to the issue of finding a 1" CF fork.

I'm not at all familiar with the OP's frameset and frankly, didn't really understand what they have done or are looking to do. The 1" CF fork issue simply caught my eye because I've shopped for both threaded and threadless in the recent past and was hoping to clarify that particular issue for the OP.

Andrew R Stewart 

A few comments in no particular order.

One issue with converting a sporting MtB to a drop bar bike is the reach from the seat to the bars. On a flat bar bike the hand grip location is typically rearward of the stem's bar clamp. On a drop bar the hand position (to have one's fingers on the brake levers) is quite forward of the bar clamp. So often a really short stem is needed to reduce that increase of reach. No mention of this yet on how the drop bar configuration fits/feels with the reach in mind.

Skinny 700c tires have a pretty close diameter to a 2ish wide 559 tire. Depending of the tires the 700c might not be more than a cm larger in diameter (and the BB height is dependent on the tire's radius, not diameter). Of course this will change the head angle. About 1cm of added front end lift equal about 1/2 a degree of head angle and about .5cm of trail. Yes some difference but tire rotating weight, it's pressure and the bike's center of mass changes are more important. All this assumes the same fork. Change the fork to one with different A-C or rake and there's further muddying of anticipating handling changes.

As a brake caliper gets longer arms, to wrap around a wider tire, it's leverage (some will call this "power") is reduced. Not what I would ever suggest for a loaded touring bike. Of course, the longer arms (and actually wider curved too) will want a rim further from the mounting hole in the fork. Or put another way an axle to brake hole dimension that is longer. (Rim radius + caliper reach = axle to brake hole).

Most aftermarket carbon forks are not intended for a touring bike, no provisions for rack, fender mounts. Those that are touring intended will likely not be available with a 1" steerer.

I agree with jim101. Better to just get a complete bike with the geometry, the fittings, the wheel and tire capacity, the body fit that many hours a day over many days in a row and through areas with zero support as it's intended use. But during my many tours I have seen riders on really sad and cobbed up bikes that don't prevent their having a good time... Andy

t2p

where was 1” steerer mentioned ?

93 Trek 950 prob has 1 1/8 steerer

but whatever

t2p

prob better to get a gravel or touring bike

install durable tires - Schwalbe Marathon or similar ... can’t recall the exact Marathon model

and you are on your way

that is basically what the guy in the picture did

jimc101

It wasn't mentioned (in the first post pre-edit by the OP), but neither was the steerer size that the 950 given (at the time of original posting, the OP has now updated this, so the reply looks bad, but was valid when originally posted). I did search for the specs for the 1993 950, but couldn't find what steerer size it had, and 1993 could be either (1" or 1 1/8"), as there were still mid-high end MTB's on the market till 1996 with 1" steerers, and 1993/1994 was the change over for most manufactures, along with the change from threaded (which the 950 had as stock) to threadless, so the caution was given 'if' this was the case, then finding a 1" fork could be an issue.

With any question like this, it's a no win to post an answer, not all info is known/given, so you give possible answers then get queried on why you gave and answer that was an 'if' yet someone takes it as it is the only answer, or doesn't read the 'if' part and there there is a unknown at the time of posting

veganbikes

In case people are curious especially vis-a-vis the fork and headset:

Saddle Tripper 

I appreciate all of the help. In my case, I’m getting caught up on bike technicalities and I am on a very steep learning curve. jmc101: your first reply helped me better describe and provide more information needed so I added/edited my original post to address your input.

being new, it’s difficult where and what questions to ask. However, each reply helped me make the right decision . Glad this forum is here, and again I appreciate the help.

Kontact 

I think this conversion is a bad idea. If you are looking for a sturdy older bike for cheap with 700c wheels, there were tons of hybrids sold in that era. 26" wheels with roll just fine when pumped up a bit, and you won't be altering the steering geometry by changing the fork and wheel sizes.

t2p

another pic of the bike the guy (Mark P) rode across the US

closer look at the pic reveals Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires

he initially had issues with flats - installed the new tires - and it was good from that point on

other than the tires, fenders, racks, bags and a few other add-ons - I believe he rode the bike basically stock

I believe he encountered just 3-5 days of rain during this trip - amazing because there were significant storms around him at various points

he is on FB - you can prob review his posts and trips via FB ... contact him w / questions ... the BF Long Distance and Touring forums could also be great assistance

fishboat

OP..the 950 can make a fine tourer in it's stock OEM (rigid fork) configuration(including drive train, 26 inch wheels, and canti brakes) with a drop bar conversion.

Andrew notes the long top tube..this is true when considering any drop bar conversion...some conversions work and others look like they work, but in practice have much too long of reach to the bars/hoods. With the right choice of bike, the long top tube can be accommodated(base bikes have various lengths of the top tube). The '93 950 is a good starting point as the '90-'93 Trek 900 series MTB had a shorter top tube than '94 and up. My touring bike is a drop bar converted '93 Trek 970. The bike drivetrain is stock (7 speed, triple up front, XT front and rear derailleurs, XT canti brakes, 26 inch wheels, XT hubs, Schwalbe Big Ben tires 26x2, Tourney 3x7 STI shifters, VO Cigne 90mm stem, Ritchey Ergomax compact bars, Brooks Flyer saddle...). All in..the stack/reach to the handlebars (not frame) is very close to my standard fit on my road bikes. It's a very comfortable ride and is surprisingly fast (great tires). I'm not lightweight myself..I load it up with front and rear panniers(total weight bike+gear+me is about 300lbs on the road) and it handles it all really well. I'd take it anywhere.

At 6'4"..you'll need the 22 inch frame, if it'll fit. I ride a 56cm road bike and my 20 inch(actually something like 19.6 inches) 970 fits me fine, though I'm glad it isn't any smaller. I tried an 18 inch 970 and way too small, for me. I'm 5'11".

The '90-'93 900 series Trek bike specs are available on the vintage Trek website. The stock bike config will work fine for most touring. If you're headed for the mountains..the drivetrain gearing might be tweeked some. My (stock) gearing is 46/36/26 on the front end and 12-32(OEM was 13-30) in the rear, gear inches are 21-100.

As for all the 700c, carbon fork....if you need that, then look for another bike.

AdventureManCO 

I don't know if it helps you OP but I converted a '96ish Trek 990 to 700c -



Mine is setup far different than what you are wanting, but I have enjoyed the project a lot. However, it is more of a 'project', something to tinker on, and that is why I like it. The brakes (in my case, the rear) is/was a challenge. I plan to braze on some posts for the 700c rim. The bike rides really nice, but other posters are correct you may find a bike better suited to touring elsewhere.

Folks make a big deal about the BB height, but mine turned out around the same height as you would get on this frame w/ the fork that came with it and knobby tires on 26" rims. I converted mine with a 700c touring fork.

Do you have a budget? There are loads of used 80s/90s touring-specific steel road bikes you may be able to find that have good clearances and are designed to be stable while carrying a load. A dead giveaway tends to be the presence of cantelever style brakes on these older bikes. Something like you built, but that already comes with 700c wheels, is the Trek Multi-Track, the Specialized Crossroads, etc etc (just about every major brand had one). They were the original 'hybrid'. I have one of those too (Multitrack 750). Awesome bikes and may be an easier starting point for a build than your project bike, but will still allow you to tinker and changed things with less major roadblocks. I usually see them for sale around $100-$200, so they are reasonable. Trek Multitrack 750 and up were made in USA, and 730 and below Taiwan (for the 90s welded hybrids).

Good luck!

Saddle Tripper 

Good comments. Man oh man, I am happy I asked this question. I now see better options and didn’t think the OEM setup would be an option for a touring rig.

I’ll post pictures of the 700c drop bar conversion when I am allowed. The input here about geometry . and reach are spot-on. This is the area where more tinkering was needed for comfort and fit…. And where I see that I may not go further with the drop bar.

the BB height doesn’t bother me and isn’t noticeable….it’s the reach that prompts me to go back to a straight bar. If I do … or just go back to the OEM and add fenders, front rack mounts and adjust gearing.

this has been an eye opening dialogue - and saved me hours of effort and perhaps money. Yes - limited budget. I do the best with what I can afford.

thanks much to all. Tom

tFUnK

This. The 26ers from the 90s already had high BBs to begin with so I imagine that will only get worse with 700c.

Edit: I now see that the BB height was not a noticable issue for you; that's good.
The comment about the reach is another reason why I've never bothered sinking any money into such a project (and something you've already noticed as well).

I dunno, I think it can be done but personally I don't it to not be worth the effort given the issues already mentioned in the thread. And I'm not even considering cost as a factor because I am assuming that people who go down this rabbit hole do so out of nostalgia or with a frame with high sentimental value, and not due to cost effectiveness.

t2p

yeah - budget - that pesky little thing ... money

if you are planning to do distance riding - good chance it will require a significant budget

if not just for the appropriate gear and supplies - also for lodging, meals etc

the bike $ is a then a smaller part of the entire budget - and becomes even smaller as the number of rides increases

I’m a big fan of vintage off road bikes - they are high on my list and we have a bunch of them - but would not be eager to do long distance riding with them (with flat or drop bars)

and by the time you have your bike ‘converted’ into proper condition for long distance riding - you will have consumed a lot of resources (time and money) - but the end result might be far from optimum

maddog34

I have Two early 90's Trek 900 series MTBs here in stock.. both have 1 1/8" Threaded forks., to confirm... ;-)