Using Brake Housing with Suntour Barcon Friction Shifter Cables
02-22-23, 12:38 PM
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Using Brake Housing with Suntour Barcon Friction Shifter Cables
Hi,
Cleaning up a 1982 Trek for my grandson and need to replace the original housings and cables. The bike has Suntour Barcon shifters and I want to run the derailleur cables/housing under the bar tape and exit at the stem to the downtube.
I have leftover new brake housing (Jagwire CGX-SL) that I'd like to utilize and looking for seasoned opinions on whether this would be ok to use for the shifter cables.
Before I go out and buy cable housing, can I use this brake housing with satisfactory shifting results?
Thanks
Cleaning up a 1982 Trek for my grandson and need to replace the original housings and cables. The bike has Suntour Barcon shifters and I want to run the derailleur cables/housing under the bar tape and exit at the stem to the downtube.
I have leftover new brake housing (Jagwire CGX-SL) that I'd like to utilize and looking for seasoned opinions on whether this would be ok to use for the shifter cables.
Before I go out and buy cable housing, can I use this brake housing with satisfactory shifting results?
Thanks
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02-22-23, 12:40 PM
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You can use brake housing for friction shifting. Before you apply bar tape over the housing, try the shifting first.
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02-22-23, 12:44 PM
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BarCons impose very long cable runs, and shifting will be much more responsive using compressionless housing and plastic liner at any steel bb cable guide paths.
This certainly applies equally to friction shifting as well as to indexed shifting.
This certainly applies equally to friction shifting as well as to indexed shifting.
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02-22-23, 12:50 PM
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And along those lines - I frequently do the first ride on a new "cockpit" setup with cable runs just taped in place with electrical tape. Move stuff around at will until everything is exactly where my hands want it, then tape the bars.
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02-22-23, 12:50 PM
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The housing that was originally used with barcons was quite compressible but you may like that feel. I prefer shifter housing but can get along with either.
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02-22-23, 04:31 PM
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Another point is that a 1982 bike (like mine) was made before Shimano introduced 4mm shifter cables (around 85/86) so the fittings will be expecting a 5mm cable outer.
On my bike the (rear) shifter cable was pulling through the cable stop until I realised it was built to take 5mm cable housing.
So I used some modern brake cable outer and it worked fine.
On my bike the (rear) shifter cable was pulling through the cable stop until I realised it was built to take 5mm cable housing.
So I used some modern brake cable outer and it worked fine.
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02-22-23, 07:54 PM
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I don't like the at the stem exit, I prefer exit at the first bend myself. At the stem has to much contortion.
I wouldn't use brake housing but it shouldn't make much a difference on the friction system.
Honestly, many people like those, the barcon are not my favorite.
I wouldn't use brake housing but it shouldn't make much a difference on the friction system.
Honestly, many people like those, the barcon are not my favorite.
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02-22-23, 08:27 PM
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The sweeping and gentler curve resulting from a cable exit at the first bend reduces this stress, but still requires some mitigation. It does however lead to a busier cockpit.
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02-22-23, 09:41 PM
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I do the "criss cross cables" as described by Sheldon-
IMO it looks better than the standard cable loop-
If you run barcons out the front, it has pleasing intersecting arcs. (and it seems easier to make the arcs look equal)
CrissCrossCables by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
CrissCrossFront by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
If you run up to the stem, the angles aren't as extreme since it doesn't have to enter the cable stop on the same side:
IMG_0220 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
A neat solution to this is to run the cables "criss-cross" style: The rear runs from the lever, (on the right) around the head tube, and to the cable stop on the left side of the downtube! The front cable crosses over similarly from the left side of the handlebar to the right side of the downtube.
The bare cables then cross one another under the middle of the downtube, making an "X". The cables may touch where they cross, but t very lightly, since they are both straight...the tiny bit of friction at this crossing is more than offset by the reduction in friction in the smoother-flowing cable housings.
This technique does not work with over-the-bottom-bracket cable routing, but is doable with most newer bikes that have under-the-bottom-bracket cable routing and cable stops mounted toward the bottom side of the down tube.
"Criss-Cross" Cables
Most bicycles with handlebar-mounted shifters run the rear cable on the right, the front on the left. This causes some awkwardness in routing housing from the shift levers to the frame stops. Because these housings have to be long enough to permit the bars to turn all the way back and forth, the housings often wind up making a reverse bend--for instance, the rear will go from the shifter, which is on the right, swing forward and cross over past the centerline of the bicycle, then back over to the right side of the head tube, before heading down the down tube. These extra bends increase friction, and the fairly forcible contact between the housing and the side of the head tube can damage the finish.A neat solution to this is to run the cables "criss-cross" style: The rear runs from the lever, (on the right) around the head tube, and to the cable stop on the left side of the downtube! The front cable crosses over similarly from the left side of the handlebar to the right side of the downtube.
The bare cables then cross one another under the middle of the downtube, making an "X". The cables may touch where they cross, but t very lightly, since they are both straight...the tiny bit of friction at this crossing is more than offset by the reduction in friction in the smoother-flowing cable housings.
This technique does not work with over-the-bottom-bracket cable routing, but is doable with most newer bikes that have under-the-bottom-bracket cable routing and cable stops mounted toward the bottom side of the down tube.
IMO it looks better than the standard cable loop-
If you run barcons out the front, it has pleasing intersecting arcs. (and it seems easier to make the arcs look equal)
CrissCrossCables by Dave The Golden Boy, on FlickrCrissCrossFront by Dave The Golden Boy, on FlickrIf you run up to the stem, the angles aren't as extreme since it doesn't have to enter the cable stop on the same side:
IMG_0220 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
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02-22-23, 10:30 PM
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If you run barcons out the front, it has pleasing intersecting arcs. (and it seems easier to make the arcs look equal)
CrissCrossCables by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr
CrissCrossCables by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr(I recently picked up my second 720, a burgundy ‘84 this time. You and your photos are completely to blame.
)
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02-22-23, 10:43 PM
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I opted to not x-cross the shifter wires and it shifted brilliantly for a decade. SLR housing used here.
Last edited by clubman; 02-22-23 at 10:47 PM.
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02-23-23, 12:16 AM
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I route my bar end cables under the tape and exit at the stem because it looks nicer and the cables are out of the way. With that many bends, I would want stiff housing to help keep the shifting crisp, even if it's friction shifting.
Depending on length, you may need a tandem length shift cable for the rear derailleur if you route the cable under bar tape. Just a heads up.
As for paint rub, just cross the housing at the downtube cable stop and then cross the cables if you have a cable guide under the bottom bracket.
Otherwise, just use one of many housing protectors. They are all over Amazon and elsewhere in various shapes, colors, etc. It's just not a big issue.
Last edited by mstateglfr; 02-23-23 at 12:20 AM.
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02-23-23, 08:55 AM
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I haven't seen a "new bike day" post about your 720 yet!!!!
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02-23-23, 09:19 AM
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Thank you all.
So the consensus appears that the brake housing should be ok using friction shifters.
Was thinking about converting the bike to downtube shifters as it’s my only bike without downtubes, but this bike already has barcons and I’m trying to utilize what I have.
I rode this bike while back on one of my longest rides (75mi) and the barcons made for an interesting experience. I'm ok with them as an alternate to downtubes.
I had the housings exiting by the brake lever (maybe they were cut too long) but it was just too much cable sticking out up front for me. The trick for me is trying to minimize the added look of the barcon housings.
Guess my challenge will be getting the housing exit length perfect at the stem.
Thank you for the pics @golden boy, visually I do like the criss-cross option.
So the consensus appears that the brake housing should be ok using friction shifters.
Was thinking about converting the bike to downtube shifters as it’s my only bike without downtubes, but this bike already has barcons and I’m trying to utilize what I have.
I rode this bike while back on one of my longest rides (75mi) and the barcons made for an interesting experience. I'm ok with them as an alternate to downtubes.
I had the housings exiting by the brake lever (maybe they were cut too long) but it was just too much cable sticking out up front for me. The trick for me is trying to minimize the added look of the barcon housings.
Guess my challenge will be getting the housing exit length perfect at the stem.
Thank you for the pics @golden boy, visually I do like the criss-cross option.
Last edited by Bruce27; 02-23-23 at 09:25 AM.
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02-23-23, 07:18 PM
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At the stem is 3 extra turns — all rather small radius. I think that is 1, 2, 3, times the friction. Plus, if you change your mind and pick up some proper housing for your Granson’s Trek, that is more trouble rewrapping the bars. Both my bar end bikes have nice graceful curves back to the guides without crossing.
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02-23-23, 07:23 PM
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Thank you all.
So the consensus appears that the brake housing should be ok using friction shifters.
Was thinking about converting the bike to downtube shifters as it’s my only bike without downtubes, but this bike already has barcons and I’m trying to utilize what I have.
I rode this bike while back on one of my longest rides (75mi) and the barcons made for an interesting experience. I'm ok with them as an alternate to downtubes.
I had the housings exiting by the brake lever (maybe they were cut too long) but it was just too much cable sticking out up front for me. The trick for me is trying to minimize the added look of the barcon housings.
Guess my challenge will be getting the housing exit length perfect at the stem.
Thank you for the pics @golden boy, visually I do like the criss-cross option.
So the consensus appears that the brake housing should be ok using friction shifters.
Was thinking about converting the bike to downtube shifters as it’s my only bike without downtubes, but this bike already has barcons and I’m trying to utilize what I have.
I rode this bike while back on one of my longest rides (75mi) and the barcons made for an interesting experience. I'm ok with them as an alternate to downtubes.
I had the housings exiting by the brake lever (maybe they were cut too long) but it was just too much cable sticking out up front for me. The trick for me is trying to minimize the added look of the barcon housings.
Guess my challenge will be getting the housing exit length perfect at the stem.
Thank you for the pics @golden boy, visually I do like the criss-cross option.
but very cool in totals
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02-23-23, 08:34 PM
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I like finely tuned and very quiet friction shifting, usually 2x7 with ramped rear cogs, and I only use new shimano brake housing. It requires no maintenance. The housing never frays like shift housing can.
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02-23-23, 10:10 PM
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I'm going to be trying Suntour ratcheting friction barcons soon. My cable guides are on the top of the BB, so I can't use the criss-cross trick, and am planning to exit at the first bend of the bars, in the classic style. My dilemma is whether to use the set of original cables that I have, or to go with a modern Jagwire 2x Pro Shift set. My inclination is to go with the original stainless steel housing and galvanized inner wire, greased at the appropriate length and spots with some fancy "Extreme Fluoro" grease. The OD of the two sets is very close, and the SS housing probably looks a little more low-key than matching white but thinner diameter modern shift cable set. They will go with six and seven-speed wheels, using a Suntour Cyclone FD and V-GT Luxe RD. Maybe even with white Tressostar bar tape!
Anyone have any bar wrapping tips? Like how to keep the housing from squirming around where it comes out, and how far up from the end that should be - still on the straight part of the drops, or tilted up a bit past the start of the curve? It seems like I could get a better overlap at either spot by wrapping from the brake lever toward the end, but then I'll need to finish the ends - can't just tuck them in under a chrome spring plug. I have some white heat-shrink tubing for that, but wrapping from the end towards the brake lever would solve it, too.
Anyone have any bar wrapping tips? Like how to keep the housing from squirming around where it comes out, and how far up from the end that should be - still on the straight part of the drops, or tilted up a bit past the start of the curve? It seems like I could get a better overlap at either spot by wrapping from the brake lever toward the end, but then I'll need to finish the ends - can't just tuck them in under a chrome spring plug. I have some white heat-shrink tubing for that, but wrapping from the end towards the brake lever would solve it, too.
02-23-23, 10:58 PM
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Tape the housing to the bars before wrapping. I spend a significant amount of time in the drops and like the cables to exit up and somewhat out of the way when I reach up for the brakes.
Wrap from brake lever to ends and finish with your shrink tubing or tape. Or like some Rivendells and put the cables and shifters on last anchoring the housing with twine. I’ve done it that way but not on my go fast bikes.
Wrap from brake lever to ends and finish with your shrink tubing or tape. Or like some Rivendells and put the cables and shifters on last anchoring the housing with twine. I’ve done it that way but not on my go fast bikes.
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02-24-23, 12:03 AM
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Thank you all.
So the consensus appears that the brake housing should be ok using friction shifters.
Was thinking about converting the bike to downtube shifters as it’s my only bike without downtubes, but this bike already has barcons and I’m trying to utilize what I have.
.
So the consensus appears that the brake housing should be ok using friction shifters.
Was thinking about converting the bike to downtube shifters as it’s my only bike without downtubes, but this bike already has barcons and I’m trying to utilize what I have.
.
But it's not a big deal to convert to downtube shifters. Which is what I would do if I didn't specifically want / need the barcons. Shorter cable runs and more positive shifting.
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02-24-23, 12:22 AM
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I'm going to be trying Suntour ratcheting friction barcons soon. My cable guides are on the top of the BB, so I can't use the criss-cross trick, and am planning to exit at the first bend of the bars, in the classic style. My dilemma is whether to use the set of original cables that I have, or to go with a modern Jagwire 2x Pro Shift set. My inclination is to go with the original stainless steel housing and galvanized inner wire, greased at the appropriate length and spots with some fancy "Extreme Fluoro" grease. The OD of the two sets is very close, and the SS housing probably looks a little more low-key than matching white but thinner diameter modern shift cable set. They will go with six and seven-speed wheels, using a Suntour Cyclone FD and V-GT Luxe RD. Maybe even with white Tressostar bar tape!
Anyone have any bar wrapping tips? Like how to keep the housing from squirming around where it comes out, and how far up from the end that should be - still on the straight part of the drops, or tilted up a bit past the start of the curve? It seems like I could get a better overlap at either spot by wrapping from the brake lever toward the end, but then I'll need to finish the ends - can't just tuck them in under a chrome spring plug. I have some white heat-shrink tubing for that, but wrapping from the end towards the brake lever would solve it, too.
Anyone have any bar wrapping tips? Like how to keep the housing from squirming around where it comes out, and how far up from the end that should be - still on the straight part of the drops, or tilted up a bit past the start of the curve? It seems like I could get a better overlap at either spot by wrapping from the brake lever toward the end, but then I'll need to finish the ends - can't just tuck them in under a chrome spring plug. I have some white heat-shrink tubing for that, but wrapping from the end towards the brake lever would solve it, too.
...as stated above, the original stainless housing is very compressible, so there's a less positive feel to the shifting. I have never reused the stuff. Brake housing works OK, if you buy the stuff with a plastic liner, and it's a tiny bit more flexible than the compressionless, index housing stuff .
I, too, exit these barcon cable runs up near the stem. I use 3M double sided tape over the bar and housing, on the lower bar beneath the brake levers, then another continuous wrap for the upper part. The bar tape then goes on over all of that, and seems to stay in place for me. I start the tape at the bottom, using a small piece of vinyl electrical tape to secure the end. This tape gets hidden as you wrap over it, going upward on the bar.... clockwise around the bar on the lower, then counterclockwise on the top (past the brake levers.)
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02-24-23, 07:09 AM
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Anyone have any bar wrapping tips? Like how to keep the housing from squirming around where it comes out, and how far up from the end that should be - still on the straight part of the drops, or tilted up a bit past the start of the curve? It seems like I could get a better overlap at either spot by wrapping from the brake lever toward the end, but then I'll need to finish the ends - can't just tuck them in under a chrome spring plug. I have some white heat-shrink tubing for that, but wrapping from the end towards the brake lever would solve it, too.
Rough Fit 720 by Dave The Golden Boy, on FlickrAs for where to have the cable exit... I always think the best way is with the most shallow bends possible in the way you want your cable to go.
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