Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

Old 09-20-21, 05:26 PM
  #1  
tempocyclist
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
tempocyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Australia
Posts: 227

Bikes: 2002 Trek 5200 (US POSTAL), 2020 Canyon Aeroad SL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Liked 174 Times in 84 Posts
The death of rim brakes, disc brakes now unanimous in the pro peloton...

Team INEOS switching out their rim braked road bikes for disc brake models. Rim brakes officially dead in the pro peloton. *



https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/the-...ing-gp-denain/





* Some time trial bikes still using rim brakes.
tempocyclist is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 05:35 PM
  #2  
shelbyfv 
Senior Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 9,518
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2737 Post(s)
Liked 3,247 Times in 1,690 Posts
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 09-20-21, 05:36 PM
  #3  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,540

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4048 Post(s)
Liked 1,078 Times in 703 Posts
Originally Posted by tempocyclist View Post
Team INEOS switching out their rim braked road bikes for disc brake models. Rim brakes officially dead in the pro peloton. *



https://cyclingtips.com/2021/09/the-...ing-gp-denain/





* Some time trial bikes still using rim brakes.
meh.. TDF average speeds are no different in the last 5 years or so. It's pretty meaningless
Sy Reene is offline  
Likes For Sy Reene:
Old 09-20-21, 07:22 PM
  #4  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,319
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2048 Post(s)
Liked 1,049 Times in 698 Posts
Teams are going to ride what their sponsors tell them to ride. I used to caddie some on one of the pro golf tours BITD. Pay to play was/is a way of life. Taking the money instead of staying with what works has ruined/diminished many golfers careers through the years.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 09-21-21, 12:58 AM
  #5  
Prodigy4299
Senior Member
 
Prodigy4299's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 444

Bikes: 1990 Trek 850, 2005 Cannondale R1000, 2019 Cannondale Topstone 105

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Teams are going to ride what their sponsors tell them to ride.
This x1000. I was grinding my teeth recently, listening to the Rouleur podcast on the topic, where they said "well, obviously the pros prefer disc brakes, since they're choosing to ride them now". Umm... that's not how this works. In my work, I am provided with a brand X laptop and a brand Y smart phone. My usage of these two particular brands is in no way a personal endorsement of them.
Prodigy4299 is offline  
Likes For Prodigy4299:
Old 09-21-21, 12:58 AM
  #6  
SoSmellyAir
Method to My Madness
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,015

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, Trek FX 2

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 267 Times in 203 Posts
I saw the same news. How come there are no rim brake upgrade wheelsets on sale?
SoSmellyAir is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 01:01 AM
  #7  
Prodigy4299
Senior Member
 
Prodigy4299's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 444

Bikes: 1990 Trek 850, 2005 Cannondale R1000, 2019 Cannondale Topstone 105

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 20 Posts
Not to mention, riders are paid to bring positive attention to their sponsors. It's only years after retirement that we learn the truth about how terrible some of the frames / wheels really were.
Prodigy4299 is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 02:12 AM
  #8  
Branko D
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 518
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Liked 259 Times in 154 Posts
While pros ride what they are sponsored to ride, the impetus to stop making frames rim brake compatible comes from consumers overwhelmingly buying disc brake bikes.

​​​​The vocal minority which bemoans the change just does not buy that many new carbon fiber bikes. Rim brakes aren't going away, there will always be retro stuff enthusiasts and a cottage industry to cater for them, just like you can still get quill stems and square taper cranks and some swear by them.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​
Branko D is offline  
Likes For Branko D:
Old 09-21-21, 02:20 AM
  #9  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,269
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2393 Post(s)
Liked 565 Times in 350 Posts
This was obviously going to be the reality. It's not because they whole peloton wants them. Companies don't want to have to make two versions of the same bike. Nor do they want to have to make separate electronic/mechanical groups so mechanical is starting to slowly be phased out as we see with the new Ultegra.

I've never really liked my disc road bike but I will say that after 3500 miles on them they suddenly seem to have become more powerful like I always thought they should have been and like the SLX's on my mountain bike are. Once I finally got rid of the squealing I didn't mind them too much but my rim brakes actually had more bite. But in the last couple of weeks they've become great and it's kind of weird. Maybe they need a 3500 mile break in.
Lazyass is offline  
Likes For Lazyass:
Old 09-21-21, 03:09 AM
  #10  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 2,168
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 1,132 Times in 718 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Teams are going to ride what their sponsors tell them to ride.
While this is true, competition between rival brands will inevitably drive what technology is actually used on the bikes to make them competitive.
Or do you think none of the bike manufacturers try to make their halo race bikes as fast as they possibly can within the *regulations?
Would pros be faster racing on bikes from 10 years ago or today?

Disc brakes are obviously a marginal gain in the pro-peloton, but I suspect most riders do prefer them on the whole - especially in conditions where braking performance (rather than weight) is critical.
For example I believe Pogacar used disc brakes for 17 of the 21 stages in the TDF this year and it's very likely he did have a free choice given his status.

Back in the real world I prefer disc brakes too. Just for the one finger modulation I was used to with mtb brakes (where the very same rim v disc arguments were presented when disc brakes took over that world)
Also good that you don't have to worry about grinding through an expensive pair of carbon rims in the wet!

*Maybe if the UCI minimum weight was say 5.8 kg instead of 6.8 kg, rim brakes might have lived on much longer in the pro-peloton.

Last edited by PeteHski; 09-21-21 at 03:24 AM.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 09-21-21, 04:35 AM
  #11  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,319
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2048 Post(s)
Liked 1,049 Times in 698 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
While this is true, competition between rival brands will inevitably drive what technology is actually used on the bikes to make them competitive.
Or do you think none of the bike manufacturers try to make their halo race bikes as fast as they possibly can within the *regulations?
Would pros be faster racing on bikes from 10 years ago or today?

Disc brakes are obviously a marginal gain in the pro-peloton, but I suspect most riders do prefer them on the whole - especially in conditions where braking performance (rather than weight) is critical.
For example I believe Pogacar used disc brakes for 17 of the 21 stages in the TDF this year and it's very likely he did have a free choice given his status.

Back in the real world I prefer disc brakes too. Just for the one finger modulation I was used to with mtb brakes (where the very same rim v disc arguments were presented when disc brakes took over that world)
Also good that you don't have to worry about grinding through an expensive pair of carbon rims in the wet!

*Maybe if the UCI minimum weight was say 5.8 kg instead of 6.8 kg, rim brakes might have lived on much longer in the pro-peloton.
The reality is that if you prefer rim brakes, but am a rider on that team, you'll be riding discs like the rest of the team members. You'll also be talking about how great they are or keeping your mouth shut/not commenting at all when asked. Otherwise, you won't be riding for that team very long. That's the reality. It doesn't really matter what you think unless you're a top rider. If that's the case, you can have an outburst like Cavendish did a few years ago and apologize about it the next day..............then go back to riding what they tell you to ride/use.

Look at what Bryson DeChambeau did at the Open Championship this year. It doesn't mean his equipment is bad. He'll tell you how great it actually is............while a mfg. rep and his agent are there with him.

Last edited by seypat; 09-21-21 at 04:46 AM.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 09-21-21, 04:54 AM
  #12  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 2,168
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 1,132 Times in 718 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
The reality is that if you prefer rim brakes, but am a rider on that team, you'll be riding discs like the rest of the team members. You'll also be talking about how great they are or keeping your mouth shut/not commenting at all when asked. Otherwise, you won't be riding for that team very long. That's the reality. It doesn't really matter what you think unless you're a top rider. If that's the case, you can have an outburst like Cavendish did a few years ago and apologize about it the next day..............then go back to riding what they tell you to ride.
That's only the reality for individual riders who DON'T like disc brakes. Disc brakes certainly didn't happen despite everyone hating them. Engineering (IME) is not as marketing led as some people presume whenever they don't like some change.

I'm certainly not paid to say how great disc brakes are, but I genuinely prefer them to rim brakes. So I wouldn't have to keep my mouth shut if I was a pro. Or are you suggesting that most pro cyclists would prefer to use rim brakes given a free choice? I very much doubt that would be the case at this point in time.

Last edited by PeteHski; 09-21-21 at 05:03 AM.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 09-21-21, 05:30 AM
  #13  
bleui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 459
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
rim brake will make a comeback just like threaded bottom bracket does... hopefully
bleui is offline  
Likes For bleui:
Old 09-21-21, 05:40 AM
  #14  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 36,419

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 509 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16253 Post(s)
Liked 3,941 Times in 1,950 Posts
Originally Posted by bleui View Post
rim brake will make a comeback just like threaded bottom bracket does... hopefully
Good analogy, but I doubt it.

Better analogy is electronic shifting vs cable. Pros all use disc and electronic. Higher end groupsets are/will all be electronic and disc brake.

However, mid-range and entry level will likely still support rim brakes (and cable shifting) for quite some time.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 06:01 AM
  #15  
bleui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 459
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Good analogy, but I doubt it.

Better analogy is electronic shifting vs cable. Pros all use disc and electronic. Higher end groupsets are/will all be electronic and disc brake.

However, mid-range and entry level will likely still support rim brakes (and cable shifting) for quite some time.
for sure and I hate to think that, technology-wise, they would just stop any future development for rim brake, not that there's anything wrong with the current dual pivot caliper, but could it be better? or even lighter?
I haven't seen any pictures of Sram Red eTap AXS rim brake version but I would guess it's using the previous generation caliper.
Not to mention development for brake track on wheelset would also stop.
bleui is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 06:01 AM
  #16  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,319
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2048 Post(s)
Liked 1,049 Times in 698 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
That's only the reality for individual riders who DON'T like disc brakes. Disc brakes certainly didn't happen despite everyone hating them. Engineering (IME) is not as marketing led as some people presume whenever they don't like some change.

I'm certainly not paid to say how great disc brakes are, but I genuinely prefer them to rim brakes. So I wouldn't have to keep my mouth shut if I was a pro. Or are you suggesting that most pro cyclists would prefer to use rim brakes given a free choice? I very much doubt that would be the case at this point in time.
Who said anything about hating disc brakes? I might prefer discs also. But that's not the point here. The OP started a thread stating that the pros prefer disc brakes because there are no rim brakes in the peloton. There's a chance that could be an accurate statement, but maybe not. The point is that the teams/riders use what their sponsors/partners/endorsers tell them to use, not necessarily what they want to use. The product/item they use might be better, or it might not be.

More important here is that the endorsement did it's job for the OP. He/she took a look at that and decided to start a thread about it. Win win for the new product.

Last edited by seypat; 09-21-21 at 07:32 AM.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 09-21-21, 06:19 AM
  #17  
phrantic09
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 2,073

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1571 Post(s)
Liked 884 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Teams are going to ride what their sponsors tell them to ride. I used to caddie some on one of the pro golf tours BITD. Pay to play was/is a way of life. Taking the money instead of staying with what works has ruined/diminished many golfers careers through the years.
Yah but players on the mini tours need to take whatever money they can get, it's not like the purses are huge. I'm pretty sure that your average continental team rider isn't pulling down a ton of money either. If I was talented enough to be paid to ride a bicycle, I'd ride whatever they threw at me.
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 06:20 AM
  #18  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 36,419

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 509 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16253 Post(s)
Liked 3,941 Times in 1,950 Posts
Originally Posted by bleui View Post
for sure and I hate to think that, technology-wise, they would just stop any future development for rim brake, not that there's anything wrong with the current dual pivot caliper, but could it be better? or even lighter?
I haven't seen any pictures of Sram Red eTap AXS rim brake version but I would guess it's using the previous generation caliper.
Not to mention development for brake track on wheelset would also stop.
I believe that is correct. I am still running rim brakes and was hoping to get the new Shimano 12 speed semi-wireless but it's not supporting rim brakes. You have to use previous generation (wired) shifters.

Whether we like it or not, the higher-end road bikes are unlikely to do much with rim brakes going forward.

And I agree it's not a wise investment for a company to work on next-generation carbon fiber braking track technology since the market will be too small.

#Progress
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 06:39 AM
  #19  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 36,480

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 347 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18268 Post(s)
Liked 6,845 Times in 3,486 Posts
Okay, but they've been dead to me for more than 5 years.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 09-21-21, 07:14 AM
  #20  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,319
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2048 Post(s)
Liked 1,049 Times in 698 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09 View Post
Yah but players on the mini tours need to take whatever money they can get, it's not like the purses are huge. I'm pretty sure that your average continental team rider isn't pulling down a ton of money either. If I was talented enough to be paid to ride a bicycle, I'd ride whatever they threw at me.

I know, it's a catch 22 situation. One player I caddied for had a ball/driver/putter deal with company X. I didn't know that when I got his bag for the week. On the range and through the practice rounds, he's playing with a driver from company Y.(and hitting it well) On Thursday/opening round/Darrell Survey morning, he shows up with a driver from company X in the bag also. Hits both on the range. Tells me when he hits company X's driver good, it's really good. But it's off and on. Not as consistent as the other driver. The X driver goes in the bag for that round and the better driver goes into the car. He hits 2 OB that day with the X driver. On Friday, the other driver is back in the bag. We miss the cut by a stroke. Clearly, the endorsed driver was a factor in missing the cut. He told me as he was loading up heading for the next stop, that without the seed money from the company X endorsement he wouldn't be able to start each week. What do you do?


On a related note, that guy was the best I've ever seen at making 6 footers for par. At least company X's putter was working for him. You know the old saying, though. Two things that don't last long in this world are:


Dogs that chase cars and pros putting for pars.

On another related note, the second round of that tournament, or the year after, was the one where Notay Begay shot his 59. We had finished up for the day. I was hanging around the leaderboard where the scores are posted seeing if we had a chance of making the cut. Word spread that Begay was going low, so people headed across the course to cheer him on. It was impressive to watch.

Last edited by seypat; 09-21-21 at 08:05 AM.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 09-21-21, 07:57 AM
  #21  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 7,540

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4048 Post(s)
Liked 1,078 Times in 703 Posts
It somewhat seems that the popularity of disc brakes went hand-in-hand with the increased popularity of going to wider tires. Would the adoption of disc brakes have happened to the same extent, if in an alternate universe, narrow tires were still de rigueur? Chicken or the egg?
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 08:05 AM
  #22  
Ed Wiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 57 Posts
They use Pro’s use it as a way of selling to the average rider. The Pro’s need ABS disc brakes. I have seen many crashes this year do to wheel lock up on pro tour. On eBike’s they already have ABS units.
Ed Wiser is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 08:08 AM
  #23  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 3,012
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1713 Post(s)
Liked 439 Times in 284 Posts
Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
While pros ride what they are sponsored to ride, the impetus to stop making frames rim brake compatible comes from consumers overwhelmingly buying disc brake bikes.​​​​​​
^^^This. Has nothing to do with what the pros ride.

Just go look at any of the major manufacturers website for road bikes. All but the low end (sub $1000) models are disc brakes.

Discs are superior in every way. If they weren't, rim brakes would be sticking around but they aren't. They are slowing being phased out. Same reason disc brakes replaced drum brakes in the automotive industry and why motorcycles use disc brakes.

This is a simple concept that some die hards have a hard time understanding.

Last edited by prj71; 09-21-21 at 08:12 AM.
prj71 is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 08:19 AM
  #24  
billridesbikes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 199 Posts
Originally Posted by Ed Wiser View Post
They use Pro’s use it as a way of selling to the average rider. The Pro’s need ABS disc brakes. I have seen many crashes this year do to wheel lock up on pro tour. On eBike’s they already have ABS units.
This is what I’m beginning to wonder about. Is the overbuilt nature of the front of modern racing bikes (bigger forks to support disk brakes, integrated handlebars and headset, aero ‘beer can’ head tubes etc.) contributing in some way to the many crashes. Is the handling of these bikes just a bit less than previous bikes? It would be nothing you or I could perceive in our daily riding, but combined with the higher speeds the pro peloton is moving at these days the difference between crashing or not is probably measured in a few centimeters and tenths of seconds.
billridesbikes is offline  
Old 09-21-21, 08:38 AM
  #25  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,915
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 130 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
^^^This. Has nothing to do with what the pros ride.

Just go look at any of the major manufacturers website for road bikes. All but the low end (sub $1000) models are disc brakes.

Discs are superior in every way. If they weren't, rim brakes would be sticking around but they aren't. They are slowing being phased out. Same reason disc brakes replaced drum brakes in the automotive industry and why motorcycles use disc brakes.

This is a simple concept that some die hards have a hard time understanding.
True. Only the very best rim brakes can compete in any meaningful way with hydro disc brakes. However lots of bikes come equipped with cost cutting off/own brand rim callipers that are utterly inferior to even Tiagra hydro brakes (I owned both, and many more). Getting high quality braking right out the box will be a massive upgrade to the many that used to get second tier rim brakes. Then again even TRP mech disk brakes are not very good. Just get hydro from the get go.
Racing Dan is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.