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Discovered HMB about 10 days ago

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Discovered HMB about 10 days ago

Old 11-30-21, 12:49 PM
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Discovered HMB about 10 days ago

This probably really belongs on the 65-85 thread, but that's turned into another Addiction thread, blather, no info, so I'm posting it here. I'm 76.

I've been really frustrated for the past year by my inability to maintain/get into decent riding shape. I think this is mostly due to slower recovery after workouts. My muscles hurt all the time, even after ordinary moderate rides on my rollers. I had to let 2-3 days go by between any moderately hard workouts. My resting HR was up several beats over what it was just a couple years ago. I also have another problem which seems to happen to older riders, namely saddle sores. My skin just can't take the pressure from a saddle anymore. It seemed to me that all these things might be connected.

I messed with my diet, changed timing, carbs, and added protein. Adding more protein helped noticeably, but my recovery still wasn't good enough to build up to doing serious rides again. As is my practice, I hit the google, looking for wound healing (for the saddle sores), sarcopenia (muscle wasting in the elderly), and osteoporosis (I have that, too). I ran across a few studies and recommendations. One, for wound healing, involved adding 3 supplements, 2 of which I don't think do much, but one seemed worthy of more study: HMB, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-H...ylbutyric_acid

I started taking 1g of HMB 3Xday only 10 days ago, and bingo. My metabolism is back on track, my resting HR is back down to where it should be, I'm recovering normally, and my wife and I got 7 Strava PRs on our tandem ride yesterday. The saddle sore is a little better, but a minor change compared to my restored ability to recover. I don't know how much it will help my osteoporosis, but I ran across a study where it prevented bone loss in pregnant mice . Maybe so.

The main effect of HMB is to reduce muscle damage from exercise, just what I need. So if your recovery ability has gone sharply downhill as you've hit one of those aging drop-offs, give it a try.

A thorough look at HMB is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2245953/
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Old 11-30-21, 09:30 PM
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Studies confirm: https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...970-015-0092-9

No reported side effects. I read 6 studies to determine if and what to expect. Most said muscle mass does not increase but VO2 max increases while weight decreases.
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Old 11-30-21, 09:33 PM
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At 70 I have many of the same issues.

This is something I should investigate. Starting about 10 years ago.
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Old 12-01-21, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
This probably really belongs on the 65-85 thread, but that's turned into another Addiction thread, blather, no info, so I'm posting it here. I'm 76.

I've been really frustrated for the past year by my inability to maintain/get into decent riding shape. I think this is mostly due to slower recovery after workouts. My muscles hurt all the time, even after ordinary moderate rides on my rollers. I had to let 2-3 days go by between any moderately hard workouts. My resting HR was up several beats over what it was just a couple years ago. I also have another problem which seems to happen to older riders, namely saddle sores. My skin just can't take the pressure from a saddle anymore. It seemed to me that all these things might be connected.

I messed with my diet, changed timing, carbs, and added protein. Adding more protein helped noticeably, but my recovery still wasn't good enough to build up to doing serious rides again. As is my practice, I hit the google, looking for wound healing (for the saddle sores), sarcopenia (muscle wasting in the elderly), and osteoporosis (I have that, too). I ran across a few studies and recommendations. One, for wound healing, involved adding 3 supplements, 2 of which I don't think do much, but one seemed worthy of more study: HMB, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-H...ylbutyric_acid

I started taking 1g of HMB 3Xday only 10 days ago, and bingo. My metabolism is back on track, my resting HR is back down to where it should be, I'm recovering normally, and my wife and I got 7 Strava PRs on our tandem ride yesterday. The saddle sore is a little better, but a minor change compared to my restored ability to recover. I don't know how much it will help my osteoporosis, but I ran across a study where it prevented bone loss in pregnant mice . Maybe so.

The main effect of HMB is to reduce muscle damage from exercise, just what I need. So if your recovery ability has gone sharply downhill as you've hit one of those aging drop-offs, give it a try.

A thorough look at HMB is here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2245953/
Inspired by your post, and as I have just re-joined a gym, I have gone ahead and ordered some HMB and a few other supplements from iHerb.

Will report back in the New Year, if they benefited me or not.
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Old 12-01-21, 11:21 AM
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Is HMB over-the-counter, or prescription? If over-the-counter, where do you buy it?

These questions probably sound a bit silly, but I am currently living in Dubai.
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Old 12-01-21, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony Marley View Post
Is HMB over-the-counter, or prescription? If over-the-counter, where do you buy it?

These questions probably sound a bit silly, but I am currently living in Dubai.
OTC or online. Over here Walmart has the best prices or ebay if you can trust the seller. Lots of availability. You should be able to find it in Dubai
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Old 12-01-21, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
At 70 I have many of the same issues.

This is something I should investigate. Starting about 10 years ago.
I remember very well the experience of going 70. That was the largest single drop-off I'd had since turning 63. Now at 76, there was another of those. I have no idea why these singularities occur, but they have for me. Something in my metabolism stops working the way it used to. We are just walking chemical factories and something goes wrong in the supply chain. That's what supplements are for in our case. Not trying for any great achievement, just trying to keep on keeping on when the usual training interventions don't work anymore..
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Old 12-01-21, 12:36 PM
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Very interesting.

If the main effect is to restore recovery, is it best used on days of tough workouts, or is the effect optimized by daily intake, irrespective of exercise status?
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Old 12-01-21, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Very interesting.

If the main effect is to restore recovery, is it best used on days of tough workouts, or is the effect optimized by daily intake, irrespective of exercise status?
Good questions. The studies I've read had the subjects use it every day. These studies also featured exercise every day or almost every day. You could experiment. OTOH, it's cheap. I'm using it every day, Blood levels are max in 2 hrs. after taking 1g, 1 hr. after taking 3g. So there's that. I should try to schedule around that but I'm not. Maybe it doesn't much matter. Don't know. Had a really hard ride on Monday, so today should be DOMS day, but my legs are OK, just a bit stiff. I'm going to go do some FastPedal on my rollers now. I'll see how that feels.
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Old 12-01-21, 01:37 PM
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I should mention that HMB tastes like something died in your water glass yesterday. However it's easy to mask. I don't really taste it in water with 30g chocolate whey protein. You could put it in a pre or post beverage, protein shake, anything like that.
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Old 12-01-21, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I should mention that HMB tastes like something died in your water glass yesterday. However it's easy to mask. I don't really taste it in water with 30g chocolate whey protein. You could put it in a pre or post beverage, protein shake, anything like that.
It's available in tablets, though....
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Old 12-01-21, 03:37 PM
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Folks might want to investigate the effectiveness of HMB. There are about as many "studies" that say it is effectivess as there are that say it is not.
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Old 12-01-21, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I should mention that HMB tastes like something died in your water glass yesterday. ....................................
Certainly worth mentioning, but if this comes in capsules why would one taste it??
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Old 12-01-21, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OldRailfan View Post
Certainly worth mentioning, but if this comes in capsules why would one taste it??
I'm cheap. I paid $17 for 250g.bulk powder. Plus I'd rather put everything into one bottle or glass and drink it. Same cost in caps gets you about 60g. I have a capsule machine which I use for some things but for this, I didn't think it was worth the effort.
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Old 12-01-21, 04:25 PM
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Hold My Beer, and watch this!
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Old 12-01-21, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
Folks might want to investigate the effectiveness of HMB. There are about as many "studies" that say it is effectivess as there are that say it is not.
My investigation will involve taking it.
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Old 12-01-21, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
Folks might want to investigate the effectiveness of HMB. There are about as many "studies" that say it is effectivess as there are that say it is not.
If you'd read the whole OP, you would have noticed that, as is my usual practice in posts of this nature, I included a study which seemed to me a thorough investigation of the effectiveness, including a long section about why some studies might differ in their results. You might want to take a look.

And as ColonelSanders intimated, one can do one's own study, which will have more valid results than anything one might read. That's what I always recommend. The only important criteria other than safety for any fitness routine or dietary thing is "Did it work for me?" And of course the things which might be even more important - whatever result it might have, is it worth the expense and bother to me? Twenty years ago, I don't think I would have bothered. I'm not a racer and was just about as strong as I needed to be to do what I wanted to do. I was a long way from wringing everything I could have out of my training.
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Old 12-04-21, 01:56 PM
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Can’t forget placebo effect. Many of the studies showed no net increase in muscle mass but if it works for you, it works for you.
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Old 12-04-21, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Can’t forget placebo effect. Many of the studies showed no net increase in muscle mass but if it works for you, it works for you.
Yes, that's correct. Increased muscle mass is a function of nutrient intake more than it is a function of exercise. One can squat their ass off, but it they don't eat enough, that's what'll happen: smaller ass. Which is a wonderful thing in a way, because it is possible to be both strong and light. See Bruce, Lee.

HMB seems to be about recovery, meaning repairing muscle damage or maybe preventing it to some extent. Thus one can work out harder on more days, and if one eats enough of the right nutrients, yes one will grow. Or if not, not. So far I'm not heavier, just a little faster and a little more endurance from being able to work out on consecutive days again. I got my happy back.

There's an overview of sarcopenia here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066461/

It's an issue, starting in the 4th decade of life, as the study says.
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Old 12-05-21, 09:35 AM
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There are two newer meta-analyses that I don't see mentioned above, from 2021 and 2020.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33034021/ shows there is some gain in muscle mass in older people. See https://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/v...n-older-adults for a non-technical summary of this paper.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32456217/ shows there is no strength gain in younger athletes and a small muscle mass gain. See https://www.mysportscience.com/post/does_hmb_work for a non-technical summary.
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Old 12-05-21, 07:57 PM
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Please everyone post your results
over on the 65+ thread,
it needs more hard, non-subjective data,
with less conjecture and blather.
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Old 12-05-21, 08:52 PM
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I retired a year ago, and I've naturally increased my cycling mileage substatially since then. Now, at 70, I find that I have to be careful to take a couple of rest days per week and do one or two very easy days on the bike, too. Twenty-plus hours a week of hard riding felt great, but I wasn't recovering the way I used to. My conclusion is that adequate rest and recovery make a greater difference as I age.
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Old 12-06-21, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Please everyone post your results
over on the 65+ thread,
it needs more hard, non-subjective data,
with less conjecture and blather.
If you'd care to start a thread over there, that would be fine with me..
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Old 12-06-21, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
I retired a year ago, and I've naturally increased my cycling mileage substatially since then. Now, at 70, I find that I have to be careful to take a couple of rest days per week and do one or two very easy days on the bike, too. Twenty-plus hours a week of hard riding felt great, but I wasn't recovering the way I used to. My conclusion is that adequate rest and recovery make a greater difference as I age.
You ain't seen nuthin' yet. And the less you do, the less fitness you have and the weaker your legs get of course. My wife and I rode the one-day STP and RAMROD on our tandem when I was 69.
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Old 12-06-21, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
You ain't seen nuthin' yet. And the less you do, the less fitness you have and the weaker your legs get of course. My wife and I rode the one-day STP and RAMROD on our tandem when I was 69.
You and your wife are all stars in my book. Two of the toughest one day events in WA. I did both on a tandem and single bike and can attest how difficult they are. Give your wife a ‘well done’ from me.

Now back to the subject at hand…..
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