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The Etiquette of Drafting

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The Etiquette of Drafting

Old 12-04-21, 11:48 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Examples of things I would never do, regardless of eBikes:
  • Ride at 22mph on a narrow and busy limestone path teeming with runners and slower cyclists - especially true if someone was trying to draft me.
  • Witness someone crashing into trees at 23mph and then just turning off the trail without going to check on them.
Always got to be an internet judge. No context for what they're commenting on, just wants to feel superior. I'm not going to justify myself to you.
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Old 12-04-21, 12:58 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Bicycles in Oregon fall under motor vehicle law when operated on the road except where specifically noted. I believe that is true of the other states I've lived in,
never seen a paceline pulled over and everyone cited to tailgating and I have ridden in hundreds of them.

I really dont care if someone drafts me. If they touch my back wheel, they go down, not me. If someone does draft me, I will point road hazards as a matter of courtesy. It would be good if they took turns pulling but can understand if someone is tired and just needs a break. Not into the resentment and fairness thing. Usually just enjoy the company which makes the miles go by faster. Of course if they are a jerk, I will just stop and let them go by.
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Old 12-04-21, 01:43 PM
  #78  
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[QUOTE=63rickert;22328600]
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Rammed from behind is not what happens. The whole point of drafting is the two riders are matched in speed.
Unless, say, the front rider had no clue the rear rider was a few inches away and stopped pedallng and sat up, or even braked .....[QUOTE=63rickert;22328600]
Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Wheel contact drills are stupid.
Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Then why did your coach think you needed to do them? Of course the rider behind should announce.
Really? Why? Didn't your stupid drills prove nothing bad could happen?
Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
I draft far less than formerly because when I announce the most common response is no response.
Why would you care if they responded? It doesn't matter if they hit you. You just told us that. You also told us that no one gets hurt in bicycle crashes. What are you Afraid of?
Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Most of them can’t ride a straight line, can’t make a steady pace, are way too erratic for me to want their wheel.
But wait, wouldn't they be equally erratic and incapable of riding a straight line if they were a few inches behind you?

Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Most following too close accidents happen at low speeds in heavy traffic. Doesn’t have to be fast to get messy. The real world accidents again are completely different from the imagined horrors. Stop living in a world of imaginary problems.
And this is where you don't just point the gun vaguely at your foot, you take careful aim at each toe in succession and pull the trigger.

There are enough accidents by your own admission, that you have been able to classify them into different types, which is fine .... except that very few of us have ever seen or been involved in low-speed accidents where we got hit from behind in heavy traffic----care to show us the source of your statistics? I am sure they are not among the 99 percent of all statistics which are entirely fabricated by someone trying to win an argument, right? So .... where are your numbers? Name your sources.

Of course, low-speed accident sin heavy traffic are also dangerous, because there is half a chance you or the other person will fall into traffic.

But high-speed accidents are also unpleasant, because coming off the bike at high speed Hurts, and sometimes kills. The number of World Tour riders we have SEEN---on TV of course, so you are going to tell us those crashes are all faked? And those of us who have watched bike racing live .... I guess those crashes were all done by stuntmen? The broken bones, head injuries, scrapes and cuts, and broken bikes were just special effects? Because after all, your coach proved that nobody gets hit from behind and knocked over.

Here is this----You admit there are crashes, but no one cares what you admit---we have all seen people on the internet who refuse to face reality and tell others their own life experiences are simply wrong.

You also seem to think---and have even claimed--that the only reason people get hurt in high-speed crashes is because they panic. You know .... one bike hits another while both are traveling at 20 mph, but if both riders would just break out into laughter, or maybe even song ... both would walk away unscathed. The riders we have seen withdrawing from races are carted off in ambulances .... maybe they sang the wrong song?

Here is Fact .... you are old enough to finally meet Fact, I think-----People don't lie in terror of crashing. If they did they wouldn't ride. In fact, the primary reason I see on any of the bike sites I visit and among riders I have met---you know real people in the real world who ride real bikes---for not riding on the road is the fear of getting hit by cars---even though we all know that that5 is a rare occurrence.

Those of us who actively ride and actively avoid collisions, are not avoiding "imagined horrors." We are avoiding real horrors whioch we know how to avoid ... say, by not letting untrained or unknown people draft us. You know, the people you explain
Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
.... can’t ride a straight line, can’t make a steady pace, are way too erratic ....
The whole "terror" thing is your invention .... and is thus rather revealing, perhaps, eh? The rest of us take stock of real-world situations, weigh the odds, do what we can to minimize the risks, and ride because we have deemed it reasonably safe, given the precautions we take .... the same precautions you, gripped in your own imaginary internal terror, advise us to take and take yourself. Interesting.

You are here telling us we are all cowards because we won't play Russian Roulette ("Hey,. most of the time no one gets hurt! The fear is all in your mind!") but then explain hwo you avoid playing Russian Roulette.

Man, just cut the BS and walk away.

Most of us have ridden in packs, and single- and double pacelines, with riders we trusted who trusted us .... without the "terror" you cannot seem to stop mentioning. We are also smart enough, not to get into such situations with people we don't know or trust---as you claim to be.

Yet you still feel a need to demean the people who actually do exactly what you say you do.

Just walk away from this thread. The world is a wide place, and certainly you can find a place where you can make positive contributions?
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Old 12-04-21, 02:23 PM
  #79  
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Wasn't there a topic like this yesterday, last week, last month, last year....

I just wave when I jump on someone's wheel.
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Old 12-04-21, 02:26 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
I just wave when I jump on someone's wheel.
And if I have to acknowledge them verbally, I ask about chain lube ..... or comment on their socks.
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Old 12-04-21, 02:46 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Wasn't there a topic like this yesterday, last week, last month, last year....
All of the above.

The more pressing issue is how I should lube my pawls.
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Old 12-04-21, 05:27 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
it is a really good joke and a really unfortunate outcome.
He recovered nicely, and we all chipped in to fix up his bike. And the scar isn't very noticeable. All things considered, it was a pretty good outcome.
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Old 12-04-21, 05:53 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
It's etiquette. Just like there is no law against farting in an elevator, but doing it is a Richard move.
I think you may have found the ultimate solution to getting rid of a wheelsucker.
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Old 12-04-21, 08:22 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Cramic View Post
Newish cyclist here, riding mostly on roads. Just wondered what people’s thoughts are on the “unannounced drafter”.

I live in Perth (Western Australia) and it’s bloody windy! As such it’s really helpful to get on another cyclist’s wheel, but it doesn’t always feel fair.

Case in point, today I was cycling along a long, flat path and a cyclist was up ahead. I was catching him pretty quick, announced that I was about to pass, and did so. I had a feeling he attached himself to my wheel and when I came to turn off a few kilometres later it was confirmed. There was a fairly strong headwind that I did all the work against. He didn’t ask if he could “hitch a ride”.

But the caveat to all this is that he was clearly slower than me when up against the wind himself, so I wouldn’t have wanted him to go ahead. I’d have ended up slower (albeit getting a bit of a rest). So where’s the harm in him riding behind me?

I feel like I’m being a petty little guy! 😂

But then, that said, I had somebody else do it without me knowing. I thought I heard something fall from my bike and my immediate reaction was to brake and look back…to see another cyclist swerving around me and muttering a curse. Which I think was totally unacceptable. I accept that there are “slowing down” signals, but it all happened so fast and it was only an issue because he was a few inches off my rear wheel, benefiting from the slipstream.

So what are people’s thoughts on this? Is there a fairly well accepted etiquette?
The etiquette of drafting? Don't, unless you're part of the team. Don't, unless you know what you're doing and know the people you're riding with. When in doubt, fall back to rule number one. I hate wonabee drafters.
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Old 12-05-21, 02:31 AM
  #85  
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Terms of discussion about drafting will always be set by those who have never learned to draft. Those are the real experts.

No one on thread is making a claim they were ever knocked off their bike by an unwanted drafter. Be very afraid of things that never happen. If it did happen it would be extreme carnage. I read it here.

I like the poster who acquired omniscience by purchasing a digital device. Omniscience is an attribute of God. Hope you got a good price when you bought that omniscience.

None are familiar with the fact that the front wheel of a bike is mounted on a pivot. Or maybe it is not, maybe I imagined that. Need to consult the BF group wisdom before I claim to know anything.

Altering graybox quotes is not nice. Did it make you feel good? Your feelings are important.
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Old 12-05-21, 03:52 AM
  #86  
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I’ve been run into from behind by someone who decided to suck my wheel, uninvited. It definitely happens. I’m guessing it is rare, but drafting uninvited, and unannounced, is bad etiquette. Period. It’s a simple answer to a simple question the OP asked.
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Old 12-05-21, 04:06 AM
  #87  
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i quit sneaking rides after someone accidently blew snot all over me.

at least i think it was accident,
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Old 12-05-21, 06:59 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Terms of discussion about drafting will always be set by those who have never learned to draft. Those are the real experts.

No one on thread is making a claim they were ever knocked off their bike by an unwanted drafter. Be very afraid of things that never happen. If it did happen it would be extreme carnage. I read it here.

I like the poster who acquired omniscience by purchasing a digital device. Omniscience is an attribute of God. Hope you got a good price when you bought that omniscience.

None are familiar with the fact that the front wheel of a bike is mounted on a pivot. Or maybe it is not, maybe I imagined that. Need to consult the BF group wisdom before I claim to know anything.

Altering graybox quotes is not nice. Did it make you feel good? Your feelings are important.

You screwed up the grayboxing, Maelochs just carried your error over, see post 76.

Are you deliberately missing the point? If I don't know someone is drafting me, I'm not likely to take the normal precautions I would if I know someone is right behind me. If I have to suddenly stop or swerve, I have no reason to assume that all that's going to happen is a wheel touch.

You can't come up with any reason justifying ninja drafting so you're lecturing us on why it probably won't kill us or hurt us much. Screw that, it's an unnecessary risk being imposed on me involuntarily. You have no right to do that legally or morally. If I want to ride with you in a coordinated manner, I am voluntarily taking on some risk, it's a completely different situation.
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Old 12-05-21, 07:05 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
never seen a paceline pulled over and everyone cited to tailgating and I have ridden in hundreds of them.

I really dont care if someone drafts me. If they touch my back wheel, they go down, not me. If someone does draft me, I will point road hazards as a matter of courtesy. It would be good if they took turns pulling but can understand if someone is tired and just needs a break. Not into the resentment and fairness thing. Usually just enjoy the company which makes the miles go by faster. Of course if they are a jerk, I will just stop and let them go by.

Pacelining isn't tailgating. Tailgating is failing to maintain a reasonable distance from the vehicle ahead of you. If everyone in the paceline knows they're in a paceline, a smaller distance is reasonable. If you tell someone to stop drafting on you and they keep doing it, I'm sure that's all kinds of illegal.

​​​​​​
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Old 12-05-21, 07:12 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
Terms of discussion about drafting will always be set by those who have never learned to draft. Those are the real experts.

No one on thread is making a claim they were ever knocked off their bike by an unwanted drafter. Be very afraid of things that never happen. If it did happen it would be extreme carnage. I read it here.

I like the poster who acquired omniscience by purchasing a digital device. Omniscience is an attribute of God. Hope you got a good price when you bought that omniscience.

None are familiar with the fact that the front wheel of a bike is mounted on a pivot. Or maybe it is not, maybe I imagined that. Need to consult the BF group wisdom before I claim to know anything.

Altering graybox quotes is not nice. Did it make you feel good? Your feelings are important.
Randoming attaching to an unsuspecting rider's wheel is wrong. Your feelings on the subject are not important.
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Old 12-05-21, 10:50 AM
  #91  
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Unsolicited drafting of strangers is totally fine, just say hi so they know you are there. If two people are going roughly the same speed, it makes sense for them to work together. If you don't want someone drafting you, drop them or stop pedaling until they go on ahead. The exception IMO is drafting women, if they look uncomfortable you gotta do your best to drop em, but frankly most women who are fast enough to warrant drafting know what they are doing and are comfortable unless they are a triathlete. I've had some guys give me the cold shoulder when drafting them, but they never slowed down to make me pass so I know its an ego thing on their side. Its really not that complicated, its part of cycling. Also, if you want them to pass you you can flick your elbow out to signal to them to pass.

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 12-05-21 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 12-05-21, 12:39 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Unsolicited drafting of strangers is totally fine, just say hi so they know you are there. If two people are going roughly the same speed, it makes sense for them to work together. If you don't want someone drafting you, drop them or stop pedaling until they go on ahead. The exception IMO is drafting women, if they look uncomfortable you gotta do your best to drop em, but frankly most women who are fast enough to warrant drafting know what they are doing and are comfortable unless they are a triathlete. I've had some guys give me the cold shoulder when drafting them, but they never slowed down to make me pass so I know its an ego thing on their side. Its really not that complicated, its part of cycling. Also, if you want them to pass you you can flick your elbow out to signal to them to pass.

I'm not going to engage in your sociological generalizations, but you can also just tell the person to knock it off. I'd suggest reviewing your state's stalking and criminal harassment laws before you'd refuse such a request.
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Old 12-05-21, 02:13 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Pacelining isn't tailgating.​​​​​​
Fact as stated.
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Old 12-05-21, 02:16 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
Unsolicited drafting of strangers is totally fine
Of course you'd say this. You don't adapt to new cultures very well, do you?
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Old 12-05-21, 02:45 PM
  #95  
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Well, here's a thought. I had an unannounced drafter a bunch of years ago while on a organized ride. At some point a had to rid myself of a nice big loogie and sent it down and to the right. Good thing the guy on the recumbent had a wind screen.
it annoyed me when he yelled at me.

I ride solo, and usually pretty slow, so not much opportunity for drafting.
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Old 12-05-21, 03:46 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm not going to engage in your sociological generalizations, but you can also just tell the person to knock it off. I'd suggest reviewing your state's stalking and criminal harassment laws before you'd refuse such a request.
how would you tell them to knock it off, tell them to slow down? If someone told me "stop drafting me" I wouldn't draft them, would try to pass, but would definitely think they are a weirdo. if you don't like someone drafting you then slow down or drop them. in the future OP should pass people fast enough that they can't hop onto his wheel. Places like amsterdam where everyone commutes drafting is normal. There are roads near me with tons of cyclists and drafting there is also totally normal. Sometimes you are tired from catching up to someone and want a little breather before moving on to avoid playing leapfrog, which I don't mind doing but is probably more annoying to most people than a wheel sucker.

Last edited by LarrySellerz; 12-05-21 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 12-05-21, 03:54 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Of course you'd say this. You don't adapt to new cultures very well, do you?
I don't jive with some of the "elitist" cycling clubs but the racers have been nice to me. Well maybe they just can't bully me cause word spread that I broke my neck bodysurfing and almost died so they can't be mean to me hahaha.
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Old 12-05-21, 04:24 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
how would you tell them to knock it off, tell them to slow down? If someone told me "stop drafting me" I wouldn't draft them, would try to pass, but would definitely think they are a weirdo. if you don't like someone drafting you then slow down or drop them. in the future OP should pass people fast enough that they can't hop onto his wheel. Places like amsterdam where everyone commutes drafting is normal. There are roads near me with tons of cyclists and drafting there is also totally normal. Sometimes you are tired from catching up to someone and want a little breather before moving on to avoid playing leapfrog, which I don't mind doing but is probably more annoying to most people than a wheel sucker.

YOU're calling someone a weirdo?!?!? TBH, I don't think I should have to modify my pace just because some schmuck is too inconsiderate to ask, and I really don't give a rat's butt about the opinion of such a person.

I also don't ride in Amsterdam and am not commuting. Where I'm riding, unsolicited drafting is definitely not "normal".
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Old 12-05-21, 04:33 PM
  #99  
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This thread has not disappointed.
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Old 12-05-21, 04:36 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Fact as stated.

I'm pretty shocked I had to say something that obvious. Riding like you're in a pace line with someone who doesn't know you're there is like someone just came up to you on the street and threw a baseball at you because it's normal to do that if you're on the same team.
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