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For the love of English 3 speeds...

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For the love of English 3 speeds...

Old 01-24-22, 03:09 PM
  #25651  
quakerparrot67
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Originally Posted by brianhamp View Post
I would try asking this question on the Sturmey Archer Facebook group. They are everything Sturmey Archer.. Mostly older stuff.
I have all these hubs however I do not mix them into different hub shells so I cant honestly answer your question for you. Sorry
i'll have to check them out. i got a good deal on a pair of built sun 18 alloy wheels, built around a front dynohub6 and a rear am 3 speed. i have an unbuilt s-5 hub and would like to use it in this wheelset without rebuilding (having rebuilt by a shop) the whole wheel. beginning to wonder which actuallly would be more complicated, lol.
thanks!

cheers,
rob
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Old 01-24-22, 04:38 PM
  #25652  
adventurepdx
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Originally Posted by vintagebicycle View Post
I haven't tried a set of Panaracer Col de la Vie tires on a Raleigh Sports but had a set in 650B on a mid 80's Raleigh mountain bike that had been converted to a Nexus 7 speed hub for a while. The bike came to me with a Col de la vie tire on the rear, and a CST tire up front that had seen better days. I bought a new front tire and left the rear tire alone. I got a ton of flats with those tires, I ended up buying some Kevlar strips for the inside of the tires which ruined the ride. At max pressure they still felt soft under my weight. I eventually added a set of thorn resistant tubes and ran them over inflated to gain back to help with rolling resistance. While I think they're a well made tire, I don't think their a good choice for a heavy rider. Michelin World Tour tires have been my favorite lately. I've not had a set of Schwalbe tires yet though.
When I got my first set of Col de la Vies, I didn't like them that much. They looked good, but I did get a number of flats (especially slow leaks of unknown origin.)

The Col de la Vies are rated at a max of about 45 psi. Like you, I'm not on the light side, and that just seemed to be too low a pressure. On the advice of someone else who used these tires, I over-inflated to about 50-55 psi, and had frequent flats.

But on my second set, I decided to try something different: I inflated them at 40-45 psi. And guess what? Barely any flats, and the ride quality felt a lot better. They're just fat enough that running them at lower pressures work.

So if you try another set, try them at 35-45 psi and don't use any flat liners or thorn resistant tubes. And if you still can't wrap your head around that idea, just go with Schwalbes instead.
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Old 01-24-22, 11:19 PM
  #25653  
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
When I got my first set of Col de la Vies, I didn't like them that much. They looked good, but I did get a number of flats (especially slow leaks of unknown origin.)

The Col de la Vies are rated at a max of about 45 psi. Like you, I'm not on the light side, and that just seemed to be too low a pressure. On the advice of someone else who used these tires, I over-inflated to about 50-55 psi, and had frequent flats.

But on my second set, I decided to try something different: I inflated them at 40-45 psi. And guess what? Barely any flats, and the ride quality felt a lot better. They're just fat enough that running them at lower pressures work.

So if you try another set, try them at 35-45 psi and don't use any flat liners or thorn resistant tubes. And if you still can't wrap your head around that idea, just go with Schwalbes instead.
My first attempt at getting Col de la Vie tires to survive was running them a the recommended pressure, but they sat so low under load I would have damaged the rims. The roads around my neighborhood here are rough, lots of oil and stone roads, rough shoulders, and small curbs and driveway aprons with 1" curbing. Pinch flats and rim dents are the biggest concern.

What I noticed was that those tires would pick up small bits of stone or even sand and those bits would work their way deep into the tread. Other, harder compound tires don't hold onto those small pieces.


Here's some mounted widths of various Kenda tires I have here right now:



K103 - 37-590 - Used, 5 years or older on Endrick rim, these are very similar to the original Raleigh Record tires but a good bit narrower.



K40 - 37-590 - used, older tire on Endrick rim, this is the widest one I have that's mounted on a wheel, its an older Kenda tire and a bit wider than the newer versions. This set was on a Raleigh LTD that i rode for a few seasons sparingly, they have a ton of small cuts and chunks missing but I don't think they ever had a flat. I avoid these now because I dented the rims up pretty bad with these tires, even at full inflation. I tried running thorn resistant tubes but the small size of the tire on the Endrick rim made them nearly impossible to get on and off. The tire doesn't fit that tight to the bead seat area but its so small, the thicker tube made it a real pain to mount and dismount.
The K40 and the older CST versions of this tire have evolved over the years each time getting thinner or smaller overall.

Michelin tires are a tight fit, often requiring tire tools but they inflate well, wear well, and the ride is very acceptable.
I found the Col de la Vie tires harder to pedal and the bike didn't coast as well as with the harder tires. The Michelin tires were the best when it came to rolling resistance. I've not had a chance to try Schwalbe tires or the other various Kenda 590 sized tires. I did have a set of K803 tires on a used bike, they were a bit noisy and didn't look right on an English bike. I sold that bike fairly quickly so I can't comment on those.
I did have an Raleigh Sports for a while with a set of Kenda K193 tires, which are sort of a slick tread with random sipes, often referred to as motorcycle tread, they were wide whitewalls, they rolled well and handled fine but looked terrible on that bike. I've never seen a source for them and have no idea where the former owner found them.



K184 - 37-590 - New tire on Endrick rim, width wise, these aren't any wider than most but they stand taller overall. The overall look is much better than with the K40 or K23


K23 - 37-590 - New, on Endrick rim, inflated to max 65 psi pressure.
These came to me with a bike I bought on CL, since they were so undersized, they've been hanging on the wall waiting for a suitable use. These are a very tight fit on the rim, requiring tools to mount and dismount. Its also very hard to get them to pop up on the bead area of the rim. I had to soap up the bead a bit to get the tire on and fully inflated properly. Although these are new, I've not seen these offered lately. Earlier versions of these were never this small. I have a very early version of these on a 64 Robin Hood and those measure nearly 33mm wide but those are only rated at 45psi.



Depending on the rim, the Michelin tires run very close to being true to size at 35-590. The last set I had here on a pair of Raleigh patern rims measured 34.9 mm when new, and had grown to 35.8mm in a year of light use and full inflation.

Due to the cost of tires lately, I tend to run my tires down to the casing threads or until they simply won't go any further. Call it thrify or cheap, but I don't go that far these days and a flat tire rarely means more than a mile or two walk home if i can't fix it on the spot.

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Old 01-24-22, 11:24 PM
  #25654  
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Originally Posted by vintagebicycle View Post
My first attempt at getting Col de la Vie tires to survive was running them a the recommended pressure, but they sat so low under load I would have damaged the rims. The roads around my neighborhood here are rough, lots of oil and stone roads, rough shoulders, and small curbs and driveway aprons with 1" curbing. Pinch flats and rim dents are the biggest concern.

What I noticed was that those tires would pick up small bits of stone or even sand and those bits would work their way deep into the tread. Other, harder compound tires don't hold onto those small pieces.
Everyone's experience is going to be different. I've ridden my Col de la Vies on plenty of rough surfaces with no worry. I haven't had instances of debris working their way into tread, but I suppose it could happen. It'll happen eventually with any tire. I used to run Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, which are indeed great tires, but towards the end I was getting lots of flats due to glass and things embedding themselves even in the thickest part of the tread.
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Old 01-25-22, 12:27 AM
  #25655  
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Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
Everyone's experience is going to be different. I've ridden my Col de la Vies on plenty of rough surfaces with no worry. I haven't had instances of debris working their way into tread, but I suppose it could happen. It'll happen eventually with any tire. I used to run Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, which are indeed great tires, but towards the end I was getting lots of flats due to glass and things embedding themselves even in the thickest part of the tread.
The roads here are pretty bad when it comes to bicycles, or even motorcycles. They've been slowly getting rid of the oil and stone type paving but its still fairly common. Over the past 40 years they also have taken away the road shoulder area. Outside the white lines the road ends abruptly and you have a mix of old stone pavement or sand. Smaller roads are usually potholed and covered in sand and debris. I gave up on road bikes because it got to the point where every ride, even short rides around the neighborhood resulted in a flat regardless of the tire style.
I wish the Col de la Vie had a bit thicker tread or some sort of flat protection, or maybe if it were designed to run a higher pressure.
The K184 has been a good cheaper option. Although its not super wide, it keeps the rim further off the road. The fairly hard compound makes it wear well, resist flats, and the higher 65 psi pressure prevents pinch flats.

Its a 'safe' tire rim wise for most bikes, but lately its not always been cheaper. I've been able to find blackwall Michelin tires cheaper than any of the Kenda tires when they're available, even with overseas shipping. The problem is they're not always available in large enough quantities to get them cheap enough.
I generally also strongly prefer a black tire, I'm not a fan of a white, gum, or tan sidewall.
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Old 01-25-22, 02:59 AM
  #25656  
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I picked up a pile of cheap bikes off CL the other day for $30. Out of 11 bikes, there were 7 that were complete and basically rideable if you really wanted to, but nothing but cheap old bikes, (Ross Eurosport 5 speed, 2 Murray cruisers, one late model Huffy ladies cruiser, two newer Kent BMX bikes, one Sears Free Spirit three speed, one Huffy Sportsman 3 speed, I listed those right away and every one of them was gone in three days except the Huffy ladies cruiser, which I ended up selling the wheels off it to someone in NM.
The rest were all missing parts or junk.
Among the parts pile there's a Raleigh Sprite 27.
Its a brown frame with brown round top fenders. The chrome is decent but the paint is rough. Both hubs have loose flanges, the front left flange has broken, come unpressed from the hub and slid to the middle of the hub, the rear flange is off completely. Basically both wheels have collapsed. Both rims are rusted where they sat on the ground for ages.
The saddle is good.
Also in the pile is a pair of minty clean steel Araya wheels that could pass for new, but they're laced to 135mm/100mm wide steel nutted Shimano hubs.
There's an Electra comfort bike with a cracked aluminum frame that had 700x42C tires and a Nexus three speed hub. But someone cut out the front hub with wire cutters. The bike has a battery pack so maybe someone stole a generator hub out of that wheel.
There's also a brown Raleigh hockey stick chainguard that matches the Sprite 27 and several Raleigh sports cranksets.
I rid myself of the junk pretty quick but I saved the Sprite 27 and the alloy 700C rims and tires..

The big question is what to do with the Sprite 27? I hate to just toss it, and I know it won't bring anything as a bare frame with rough paint.
I have enough parts to build it up with either the steel Araya wheels or the wider 700C Electra wheels. I'd lace in an AW hub though.
The fenders are the worst part, they're badly bubbled up with rust and will have to be either completely stripped and preserved or I need to find another set.
There is a pair of Wald 27" fenders in the pile of parts along with several later pair of Raleigh Sprite fenders, one set in red, one in yellow. Both were from ladies frames that weren't worth saving due to rust or crash damage.

Would anyone bother putting a Sprite 27 back together? It likely won't cost me more than maybe a set of spokes but spoke these days are likely worth more than the bike would be all done.
I could just use any old set of 27" wheels and leave it with derailleurs but I have zero interest in it as a derailleur bike.
Another no cost option would be to lace in a newer Shimano three speed which shares the same diameter hub flange size with the current large flange hubs in those chrome Araya wheels.
I also thought about just lacing it up with a coaster brake in the back too.

The requirements for a bike here are that it has fenders, black wall 1 3/8" or wider tires, and upright bars. All else gets sold off or junked for parts.
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Old 01-25-22, 12:36 PM
  #25657  
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AM, AW, FW, & S5 share hub shell configurations. I have an AM with AW internals on one of my own bikes.

I believe the AC is also the same shell but I've not had one here to personally look at.
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Old 01-25-22, 01:28 PM
  #25658  
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The roads here are generally paved (a few dirt ones are left), but the main problem is we get these horizontal cracks that run the width of the road and that gradually grow more and more open as time passes. There are two ways they mainly are addressed - "crack and chip seal", which is where they put down oil and loose stone, which then gets driven over and packed into the cracks and holes; and oil/tar sealing, which is where they try to fill the crack with what is the equivalent of road caulk.

So the Col de la Vie tires, I've found, handle that kind of situation pretty well. They soak up the bumps and cracks pretty well for me. What they don't like are little shards of glass that get grabbed by the tread and work their way in. The one flat I've had was exactly that - little bit of glass from a broken bottle that got into the tread and caused a slow leak. The Col de la Vie tires are awesome when they do the loose stone and oil treatment because they're very sure-footed compared to a Kenda or Duro tire. The Schwalbes also handle it pretty well.
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Old 01-25-22, 03:10 PM
  #25659  
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Originally Posted by barnfind View Post
AM, AW, FW, & S5 share hub shell configurations. I have an AM with AW internals on one of my own bikes.

I believe the AC is also the same shell but I've not had one here to personally look at.

thank you, barnfind, that's what i needed to know.
no pictures or anything yet, but i'm putting together a well-patina'd '67 (my birth year) black 21" phillips sport that i just picked up on ebay. it's getting a set of sun alloy '18' wheels with g6 dynohub on front and the am on back, hopefully with '67 s-5 internals if i can convince the mechanic at my lbs that they can be swapped and that it's worth his while. the wheels (also ebay) are coming with nearly new michelin world tours. the fenders that came with the phillips are pretty rough, so it's getting a set of the alloy bluemels 'club racer' -style mudguards that were lying around. it's my first english 3speed, and i really look forward to getting it built up and on the road.
thanks for everyone who replied, and i'l prolly be witting this thread up with questions as this project comes along.

cheers,
rob
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Old 01-25-22, 05:49 PM
  #25660  
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Interesting 23" Puch. Looks like an updated Rugby Sport.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...44863610838731

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Old 01-26-22, 06:48 AM
  #25661  
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Originally Posted by quakerparrot67 View Post
thank you, barnfind, that's what i needed to know.
no pictures or anything yet, but i'm putting together a well-patina'd '67 (my birth year) black 21" phillips sport that i just picked up on ebay. it's getting a set of sun alloy '18' wheels with g6 dynohub on front and the am on back, hopefully with '67 s-5 internals if i can convince the mechanic at my lbs that they can be swapped and that it's worth his while. the wheels (also ebay) are coming with nearly new michelin world tours. the fenders that came with the phillips are pretty rough, so it's getting a set of the alloy bluemels 'club racer' -style mudguards that were lying around. it's my first english 3speed, and i really look forward to getting it built up and on the road.
thanks for everyone who replied, and i'l prolly be witting this thread up with questions as this project comes along.

cheers,
rob
happy to hear someone is making good use of those wheels. I saw them on eBay, but I need to do a house cleaning.
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Old 01-26-22, 08:33 AM
  #25662  
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On the subject of EA3 tires, I've been running Panaracer Col de la vies on a set of CR-18 rims for some time now and on a few different bikes. I like them a lot and never have had a flat (but they also don't see much mileage). They're well suited to unpaved surfaces at low PSI. With my dial caliper, they measure 37mm wide on those rims. For my 1940 Raleigh Sports project, I wanted blackwall tires and ordered some Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, directly from Schwalbe USA at $17/tire. They're listed as 37 x 590, and I installed one last night on a steel Endrick rim, and at about 40 psi, they measure 35mm, which should be just right for this bike. I'm encouraged by the feel of these: the rubber isn't super hard, the look is traditional, the weight not too bad. Much better than those skinny Kenda rocks I reported on previously!
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Old 01-26-22, 09:23 AM
  #25663  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
On the subject of EA3 tires, I've been running Panaracer Col de la vies on a set of CR-18 rims for some time now and on a few different bikes. I like them a lot and never have had a flat (but they also don't see much mileage). They're well suited to unpaved surfaces at low PSI. With my dial caliper, they measure 37mm wide on those rims. For my 1940 Raleigh Sports project, I wanted blackwall tires and ordered some Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, directly from Schwalbe USA at $17/tire. They're listed as 37 x 590, and I installed one last night on a steel Endrick rim, and at about 40 psi, they measure 35mm, which should be just right for this bike. I'm encouraged by the feel of these: the rubber isn't super hard, the look is traditional, the weight not too bad. Much better than those skinny Kenda rocks I reported on previously!
Yes, there's a big jump up in quality when you go up from the Kenda or Duro to the Schwalbe or Panaracer. I think the Kenda is a passable budget option - not great, but they lasted a lot longer than the Duro tires. But I noticed the difference in the quality of the ride improved a lot going to the Panaracer and the Schwalbe.



Did you have any trouble fitting them under the fenders? One thing I noticed was that the Panaracers maxed out my fender space on a 1974 Sports. The Schwalbes are on a 1958 Sports and the fit wasn't quite as tight, but certainly they were a larger tire than the Kenda or Duro.
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Old 01-26-22, 09:57 AM
  #25664  
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Since we are into the details of suitable tires, how is the fit of the World Tours? I am thinking those will be a spring purchase for me to try on my wife's Standard Model K: the Kenda's on there are fine for the use it gets but they are a little skinny and as Neal says rock hard.....
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Old 01-26-22, 10:07 AM
  #25665  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
Since we are into the details of suitable tires, how is the fit of the World Tours? I am thinking those will be a spring purchase for me to try on my wife's Standard Model K: the Kenda's on there are fine for the use it gets but they are a little skinny and as Neal says rock hard.....
They fit nice and - as pointed out above - have a slightly thicker cross section over the budget stuff. Here are a pair on my '52 Sports:



They also fit onto the rim well and the bead tends to seat without issue. However, they're tight enough to give peace of mind that they won't blow off the straight-side rims.

-Kurt

P.S.: @SirMike1983 - love your Sports there. These black 1950's/early-1960's machines have to be the most satisfactory way to get into 3-speeds. Between the paint, bombproof chrome, and understated panache, they feel so good to ride and own - and it's a lot of fun if you're lucky enough to come across someone else with one too.
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Old 01-26-22, 12:17 PM
  #25666  
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Originally Posted by 2flit View Post
I thought that someone here might know who to ask on this Forum.
Someone that might know the 10-sp frames that were built in England in the 1960's or 1970's?
I'd like to ID the frame builder
I hope it's OK to ask on the 3-sp channel....
Best to start a new thread for identifications. "Unknown English (?) extra-tall frame ID help."

Interesting choice of the builder to choose a Nervex Pro seatlug and a completely different set of headlugs.

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Old 01-26-22, 09:09 PM
  #25667  
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Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
On the subject of EA3 tires, I've been running Panaracer Col de la vies on a set of CR-18 rims for some time now and on a few different bikes. I like them a lot and never have had a flat (but they also don't see much mileage). They're well suited to unpaved surfaces at low PSI. With my dial caliper, they measure 37mm wide on those rims. For my 1940 Raleigh Sports project, I wanted blackwall tires and ordered some Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, directly from Schwalbe USA at $17/tire. They're listed as 37 x 590, and I installed one last night on a steel Endrick rim, and at about 40 psi, they measure 35mm, which should be just right for this bike. I'm encouraged by the feel of these: the rubber isn't super hard, the look is traditional, the weight not too bad. Much better than those skinny Kenda rocks I reported on previously!
Now that's a great deal! I bet you'll like those Schwalbes.

@SirMike1983, your bikes always look like they're in tip top shape. Always glad to see your photos.
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Old 01-27-22, 08:19 PM
  #25668  
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Originally Posted by bluesteak View Post
happy to hear someone is making good use of those wheels. I saw them on eBay, but I need to do a house cleaning.
it was a good deal for the set, and i can't wait to put them to use. i'll eventually be back with pictures once i get thing a little further along.

cheers,
rob
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Old 01-28-22, 11:45 PM
  #25669  
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On the bay, as a pick up only, located in Westwood, NJ is a beautiful emerald green with nice chrome fenders, its an ancient Columbia Tourist III for just twenty-five.
Someone in that neighborhood, that likes tinkering with old 3 speeds should jump on that one, and hopefully keep it a rider for someone in your family or friend/neighbor etc but you know that piecing it out will yield maximum return if thats your thing.......but those old Columbia Tourist III three speeds are just as good as any the old English ones..........plus that emerald green color is striking against those peaked chrome fenders.....plus the one piece crank beats the three piece cottered crank every day of the week when it comes to "life on a 3 speed in the upright position" because weight doesn't mean a thing because no matter what you can't make it zing even if you were to pedal like Superman and try to lighten the bike's weight as much as possible with a 3 speed. You wouldn't want to anyway because its all about the smooth ride with a comfortable spring saddle that probably weighs at least several pounds on its own....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275088084645
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Old 01-29-22, 02:41 PM
  #25670  
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That is a pretty good deal for the Columbia. Columbia's line of ,modern utility and 3-speed type bikes (this includes bikes that were in the style of a 3-speed, but which had coaster hub, New Departure multigear, etc.) goes back to the late 1930s with the Sports Tourist and Sports Roadster. They added a folding bike with 26 inch wheels to the line in the 1940s. Columbia continued to build good quality 3-speed type bikes into the 1950s. These bikes were the equal of a basic Raleigh Sports or Schwinn New World. Columbia in particular underwent some rather harsh cost-cutting on their utility and 3-speed bikes in the 1960s. The green one on eBay looks like a nice early or mid 1960s model from before the worst of the cost-cutting set in. Later bikes use cheaper parts, Shimano 333 hubs, etc. But this green one looks to be from
toward the end of when Columbia was making good quality 3-speeds. It's certainly worth the $25 if you like American-made 3 speed bikes.

I owned a 1940 Columbia Sports Roadster, which had a New Departure coaster brake and a Philco Birmingham front caliper. It was a hybrid of English and American features. I sold it to a collector who now owns the bike in Mexico.



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Last edited by SirMike1983; 01-29-22 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 01-29-22, 06:46 PM
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I had a Columbia similar to that one about 45 years ago, it was my first three speed. I rode it till the rear dropouts worked loose in the frame tubes. The Stewart Warner speedometer was about a 100 miles from turning back over to zero when it came apart, I took an ox-acetilene torch and brazed it back together and rode it for another four or five years. It was a tough bike that survived a ton of abuse. It had a Sturmey Archer AW with a trigger shifter, chrome fenders, and those wide, flat Columbia handlebars. I eventually bought a used Norman with a larger frame at a flea market and the Columbia got set aside and eventually sold.
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Old 01-29-22, 11:41 PM
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Triumph Made in Canada

Men's Triumph 3 speed Sturmey Archer AW 75-9 . Made in Canada.
Serviced and shined it up. Put on a set of Michelin World Tours.
Nothing really special but it rides nice.







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Old 01-30-22, 09:54 AM
  #25673  
Ballenxj
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Originally Posted by brianhamp View Post
Men's Triumph 3 speed Sturmey Archer AW 75-9 . Made in Canada.
Serviced and shined it up. Put on a set of Michelin World Tours.
Nothing really special but it rides nice.

Is it normal to have a Raleigh stamped chain ring on a Triumph bicycle?
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Old 01-30-22, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ballenxj View Post
Is it normal to have a Raleigh stamped chain ring on a Triumph bicycle?
This is the first one I have seen. I really cant answer that truthfully... It seems to have the characteristics of a Raleigh throughout the bike. I think Raleigh made these bikes... A lower end Budget bike??
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Old 01-30-22, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ballenxj View Post
Is it normal to have a Raleigh stamped chain ring on a Triumph bicycle?
Although it may be different on a Canadian built bike, but the Triumph bikes I run across here usually have a generic 3 spoke chainring and ball bearing pedals.
On English built bikes, I was under the impression that those pedals were also a late 60's thing, maybe even as late as '70 but our mid 70's bikes all had reflectorized pedals with bearings.
If I ran across that here I'd likely just assume it was either put together from spare parts or at the very least had a crank set swap at some point.
I see its got 36/36h wheels, what branding is on the rims on that bike? Dunlop? Sturmey Archer? or other?
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