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Goodwill 3Rensho Super Record Export Resto….rehab

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Goodwill 3Rensho Super Record Export Resto….rehab

Old 01-28-22, 12:52 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post

I did notice something that may support the idea that the fork is a replacement (but for what reason I don't know - certainly not because of a crash or there'd be some evidence on the frame): the bit of a gap between the headset lock nut and the spacer. Either a different headset with a taller stack height was originally used, or this fork is a replacement and a few millimeters longer than the original one. But again, pure speculation.

DD
That's all me. I pulled it apart last night to clean the old grease and put it back together loosely to wash it (hoping to keep most of the water out of the frame). Now that it's clean, I'll go through and relube every bearing and pivot point and set the freeplay on the headset, bb, hubs etc..
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Old 01-28-22, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
I did notice something that may support the idea that the fork is a replacement (but for what reason I don't know - certainly not because of a crash or there'd be some evidence on the frame): the bit of a gap between the headset lock nut and the spacer. Either a different headset with a taller stack height was originally used, or this fork is a replacement and a few millimeters longer than the original one. But again, pure speculation.
DD
Eep, it looks like there is no gap in the Goodwill pics. @oktober, is there a piece missing, or maybe just not snugged down?
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Old 01-28-22, 12:57 PM
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Doh, yes - the fork was removed for photos! That explains that

OP: nice stem, too - love that 3ttt version with the Olympic Rings badge.

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Old 01-28-22, 01:05 PM
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The clear solution to this being a tad too tall: get your legs stretched!

I think there may be a timeframe gap between when frame was built (looks just like my earlier than '86 "Cyclone Super Record Export", built with Ishiwata 024, yes 24 not 22 and also has over-BB cable routing) and when that Ishiwata fork MIGHT have been built. But not necessarily done post-market...could be what the customer paid for. This certainly shows some pretty "unconventional" choices for components and other fittings (Foam grips?!?)

To my limited knowledge the frame seems like it SHOULD have had the more conventional (as in with forged offset crown and blades) not this slightly "aero/Unicrownish style" chrome fork.
But that's purely IMO and best taken with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-28-22, 01:18 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
(Foam grips?!?)
RIGHT?! So weird to me.
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
To my limited knowledge the frame seems like it SHOULD have had the more conventional (as in with forged offset crown and blades) not this slightly "aero/Unicrownish style" chrome fork.
But that's purely IMO and best taken with a grain of salt.
Andy Muzi agrees with you. He said if it was the original factory choice it should have the serial number stamped on the steer tube, which it does not. It *is* period correct, and much like other unicrown forks available, but it was not put together at the 3Rensho factory (probably).
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Old 01-28-22, 01:42 PM
  #31  
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Damn! that sure cleaned up nicely! Are you going to go all Shimano AX or all Campy on this build?
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Old 01-28-22, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
Definitely no clear coat, and the paint seems quite thin judging by the crisp edges and definition of the lugs.

Yeah, I keep looking for signs of wear and other than some rub from the cables, I'm not really finding any. The brake pad arms have no marks from the brake pad washers, the cable guides have little to no wear on the paint, the hoods have no wear on the rubber, the crank arms have no wear from pedaling. One pedal has a tiny patch of wear on the inner side, but no scrapes on the toe clips, no marks on the brushed aluminum pedal surfaces, etc...
.
....I have come upon several bicycles like this, over the years. One, was because the first time a tubular went flat on PX-10, the guys stuck the bike up in the attic. Another was a Trek touring bike, that some early incident had pretzeled one wheel, and the bike ended up occupying a corner of the garage for the next 30 years, waiting for someone to repair the wheel.

But yeah, I feel like you that it's kind of a waste to have a bicycle and not ride it.
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Old 01-28-22, 03:13 PM
  #33  
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I posted this and the other one the first time it was listed. Guessing someone reneged on their bid so it was relisted.

Congrats on your purchase. I thought it was local pickup only and didn't know they'd allow 3rd party pickups, so good on you for arranging pick up and shipping. Nice to see it worked out
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Old 01-28-22, 03:23 PM
  #34  
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WOW!
That really is a beauty, to me it looks as though it was hardly ever ridden!.......How did it arrive undamaged with the "great" packing done by the GW folks, did they ship it with the wheels on?
I would have bid on the green one if I felt it would have survived shipping.
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Old 01-28-22, 03:38 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
I posted this and the other one the first time it was listed. Guessing someone reneged on their bid so it was relisted.

Congrats on your purchase. I thought it was local pickup only and didn't know they'd allow 3rd party pickups, so good on you for arranging pick up and shipping. Nice to see it worked out
Originally Posted by xiaoman1 View Post
WOW!
That really is a beauty, to me it looks as though it was hardly ever ridden!.......How did it arrive undamaged with the "great" packing done by the GW folks, did they ship it with the wheels on?
I would have bid on the green one if I felt it would have survived shipping.
Best, Ben
i have a friend who lives in Spokane, so I called the goodwill and asked if it was ok if he picked it up for me. He took it to Wheel Sport South and they packed it up in one of their bike boxes with the front wheel off, pedals, stem and seat/seat post removed and a generous amount of styrofoam wrap. My wife took a video of the unboxing, but I haven’t posted it anywhere yet.
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Old 01-28-22, 04:29 PM
  #36  
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Like I said.....

Originally Posted by merziac View Post
Just spitballin here so take it for what its worth, maybe someone robbed an offset crown fork off it?

Aside from that I think you're doing just fine, especially if the PIA was in your comfort zone.
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I, too, suspect the fork is a replacement. The Ishiwata and JIS stamps on the steer tube are characteristic of Ishiwata factory brazed replacement forks, and the Shimano fork ends don't match the Campagnolo dropouts on the rear
Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
The clear solution to this being a tad too tall: get your legs stretched!

I think there may be a timeframe gap between when frame was built (looks just like my earlier than '86 "Cyclone Super Record Export", built with Ishiwata 024, yes 24 not 22 and also has over-BB cable routing) and when that Ishiwata fork MIGHT have been built. But not necessarily done post-market

To my limited knowledge the frame seems like it SHOULD have had the more conventional (as in with forged offset crown and blades) not this slightly "aero/Unicrownish style" chrome fork.
But that's purely IMO and best taken with a grain of salt.
Originally Posted by oktober View Post
RIGHT?! So weird to me.

Andy Muzi agrees with you. He said if it was the original factory choice it should have the serial number stamped on the steer tube, which it does not. It *is* period correct, and much like other unicrown forks available, but it was not put together at the 3Rensho factory (probably).

Last edited by merziac; 01-29-22 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 01-28-22, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
i have a friend who lives in Spokane, so I called the goodwill and asked if it was ok if he picked it up for me. He took it to Wheel Sport South and they packed it up in one of their bike boxes with the front wheel off, pedals, stem and seat/seat post removed and a generous amount of styrofoam wrap. My wife took a video of the unboxing, but I haven’t posted it anywhere yet.
And very glad you got this, hopefully you can make it work somehow, if not you may stand to make a tidy profit.
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Old 01-28-22, 08:14 PM
  #38  
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So I got it set up based on my measurements of my other road bike and, tell me honestly: that seat height looks goofy doesn’t it?


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Old 01-28-22, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
So I got it set up based on my measurements of my other road bike and, tell me honestly: that seat height looks goofy doesn’t it?


I think its fine, not really slammed, but enough showing to be ok aesthetically.

If that's what it takes, its fine, I would ride the heck out of it like that.

I have plenty that are just the opposite with at least two fists showing.






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Old 01-28-22, 09:45 PM
  #40  
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Daaaamn, merziac. I bet you don’t get lost in a crowd. That’s an impressive collection of some very very tall bikes.
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Old 01-28-22, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
So I got it set up based on my measurements of my other road bike and, tell me honestly: that seat height looks goofy doesn’t it?


...I ride stuff set up like that all the time here. But I don't care what it looks like.
I'm all about saddle to bar distance, once the saddle height is properly set.
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Old 01-28-22, 10:16 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
Daaaamn, merziac. I bet you don’t get lost in a crowd. That’s an impressive collection of some very very tall bikes.
Those aren't even all the really tall ones, most of those have more seatpost than they should.

Here are the ones that got me to quit buying 58-62ish unless really special.

At 6 feet, I have 38in. inseam so all legs and ideally ride 64-66 and had always made smaller ones work with lots of SP and the bars jacked way up.

These two are 65-66 and ride much better on long harder rides. The Strawberry above is a new custom build that was a compromise being the forever bike that will take me to the end of the line so its a tall 64ish and was a combination of the silver 66 Merz and a 60 Bruce Gordon I have that rides fantastic for me despite being smallish.
The Strawberry rides phenomenally thanx to Dave Levy at TiCycles, I truly believe he is one of the very best in the business still building today.


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Old 01-28-22, 10:18 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
So I got it set up based on my measurements of my other road bike and, tell me honestly: that seat height looks goofy doesn’t it?


Looks like a fine French fit. Same thing that allows me to ride my 65cm Team Pro. Feels just like a 62 under me.

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Old 01-28-22, 11:11 PM
  #44  
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I started the day with freezing my hands while washing my bike when it was 39 degrees outside. I finish the day freezing my hands in my shop doing some very minor paint correction to make the bike look it's very best. It was a good day.

Y'all have convinced me, I need to ride it for a bit and see if I like the fit. I'm still tempted to strip all the components off of it and build it with stuff that actually has wear, but I'm impatient to see how it rides. I doubt I can wait for a used 105 group from ebay before I take this to the roads.
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Old 01-29-22, 12:47 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
I started the day with freezing my hands while washing my bike when it was 39 degrees outside. I finish the day freezing my hands in my shop doing some very minor paint correction to make the bike look it's very best. It was a good day.

Y'all have convinced me, I need to ride it for a bit and see if I like the fit. I'm still tempted to strip all the components off of it and build it with stuff that actually has wear, but I'm impatient to see how it rides. I doubt I can wait for a used 105 group from ebay before I take this to the roads.
100% agree on the ride it part and encourage you (although I realize you probably don't need it) to really lean in and make it work with all the other fit factors, especially the seat tilt, fore/aft placement and all else.

I now see the BG's in your profile, great minds and all that.

Big fan of his, he moved to Eugene for 10 years after he left Eisentraut, hung out with Merz and DiNucci before returning to California.

Mine was built while he was up here.
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Old 01-29-22, 01:07 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post

I now see the BG's in your profile, great minds and all that.

Big fan of his, he moved to Eugene for 10 years after he left Eisentraut, hung out with Merz and DiNucci before returning to California.

Mine was built while he was up here.
I grew up in Petaluma in an era when Salsa was next door to Bruce’s shop and had the pleasure of being Bruce’s friend for a while. Life took over and I moved away, but have always loved and respected Bruce’s skill and knowledge. I think growing up seeing the kind of stuff that those guys built heavily influenced the kind of bikes I still like to this day.
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Old 01-29-22, 02:38 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
I started the day with freezing my hands while washing my bike when it was 39 degrees outside. I finish the day freezing my hands in my shop doing some very minor paint correction to make the bike look it's very best. It was a good day.

Y'all have convinced me, I need to ride it for a bit and see if I like the fit. I'm still tempted to strip all the components off of it and build it with stuff that actually has wear, but I'm impatient to see how it rides. I doubt I can wait for a used 105 group from ebay before I take this to the roads.
yup! The ride is the true test, ya never know. The seat post looks fine and the bike doesn’t look out of proportion to me from the picture. I agree with 3alarmer , not only seat tube length is important but how the overall geometry feels after an hour or more in the saddle. Even with the measurements being good , it can still be not right. On the other hand if the bike measures a tad tall(or short) the bike can feel just right. My Medici is a 60cm and I like a 63 but I love that bike. I got a great deal on it so I took a chance knowing I could sell it on if it didn’t work….still have it and ride the heck out of it. I hope the same goes for you. A sweet looking bike that is close to NOS.
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Old 01-29-22, 03:29 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by oktober View Post
I grew up in Petaluma in an era when Salsa was next door to Bruce’s shop and had the pleasure of being Bruce’s friend for a while. Life took over and I moved away, but have always loved and respected Bruce’s skill and knowledge. I think growing up seeing the kind of stuff that those guys built heavily influenced the kind of bikes I still like to this day.
That is so cool, another framebuilding microcosm, Gordon, Schafer, Sadoff and likely others in the same place if not all at the same time.

Our own @obrentharris is longtime good friends with Paul Sadoff and could likely add plenty to this.

We had Merz, Newlands and DiNucci here in PDX pretty early on, early 70's all starting about the same time. DiNucci worked for both the other two, Andy at Strawberry first for quite awhile and then for Merz a little while, then himself for awhile, then followed Merz to Big S where they both continued to have a big impact on the industry.

They are the big reason PDX has always been a mecca IMO.

And as I stated earlier, Mr. Gordon moved to Eugene for 10 years and hung out with two of the three.

Coincidence, I think not.
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Old 01-29-22, 03:47 AM
  #49  
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Offset 3R fork crown on 3R built Specialized Allez



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Old 01-29-22, 05:29 AM
  #50  
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When having replacement forks in stock it is for sure a good choice to have them in chrome as keeping extra forks in all paint colours would be bad for business.

The 1984 Ariel papers quotes “chromed replacement forks”. Are all chome forks replacements - of course not but if the fork in question does not have the frame serial stamped on it – it surly and strongly indicates it being a replacement fork.



If someone however doubts it (the fork) being a 3Rensho fork because of the Shimano ends, the fork crown or the Ishiwata markings - there are some things to consider:

Shimano fork ends in front and Campagnolo at the rear is also an indication of the fork not being original to the frame. However, having Shimano fork ends does not automatically mean it is not a 3Rensho fork. 3Rensho used Shimano fork ends but moved to Campagnolo ends at around 1983-4 – and according to Muzi, on his request. My 1983 early Super Record Aero (SRA) has Shimano front AND rear.

Ishiwata markings on forks with 3Rensho original design NSA aero crowns are present on verified matching 3Rensho frame/fork sets = Ishiwata markings does not mean it is a fork made by Ishiwata. 3Rensho made their own forks. It is likely that they also made the replacement forks.




My Super Record Aero (SRA)







Last edited by styggno1; 01-29-22 at 05:52 AM.
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