Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Are Shimano parts that come straight from China genuine?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Are Shimano parts that come straight from China genuine?

Old 08-23-20, 10:35 PM
  #1  
coffeecherrypie
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
Are Shimano parts that come straight from China genuine?

Take as an example Shimano's Tiagra-level SPD-SL pedals, PD-R550, though I don't think it's limited to this part in particular.

$100 at Performance https://www.performancebike.com/shim...dr550l/p332789
$100 at Jenson https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-PD-R550-Spd-Sl-Pedals

If you type PD-R550 into ebay, you get tons of "from China" results selling them for ~$50, for example https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPD-SL-Pedals-PD-R550-Clipless-Road-Mountain-Bike-Pedal-w-6-Float-Cleats-Plate/373130428879?hash=item56e04e81cf:g:RY4AAOSw5F9fITnA

Are these fakes? Or unauthorized copies made by the same factory or something? Why would they be half of the "real" price.
coffeecherrypie is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 10:40 PM
  #2  
hillyman
WALSTIB
 
hillyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,798
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked 381 Times in 183 Posts
Their probably genuine fakes. Roll the dice if you feel lucky
__________________
www.bikeleague.org

hillyman is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 10:44 PM
  #3  
AnthonyG
Senior Member
 
AnthonyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Queanbeyan, Australia.
Posts: 4,124
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3441 Post(s)
Liked 414 Times in 284 Posts
Most "Fakes" in this World were made side by side with the "real" thing on the same production line yet left the factory in an "unauthorised" manner.
Also what happens is that a "Brand" changes its subcontract manufacturer so the old items keep being made but now are deemed to be "Fakes". The quality may be just fine.

There is a reasonable likelihood that half price items from China did in fact leave the factory in an unauthorised manner.
AnthonyG is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 11:38 PM
  #4  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 496 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 128 Posts
They are fakes, quality is shoddy. Usually these fakes get dumped on markets like Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, a lot more than in the US and Europe.
There are plenty of horror stories of Shimano fake cranks suddenly broke off in a sprint, leaving rider destroyed. Chinese fakes are a well known issue in Asia.
aclinjury is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 06:54 AM
  #5  
dmark 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 445

Bikes: 84 Pinnarello Treviso NR, 72 Fuji Finest, 72 PX-10, 84 Trek 520, 90 Trek 750, 91 Trek 930

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times in 73 Posts
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Most "Fakes" in this World were made side by side with the "real" thing on the same production line yet left the factory in an "unauthorised" manner.
Also what happens is that a "Brand" changes its subcontract manufacturer so the old items keep being made but now are deemed to be "Fakes". The quality may be just fine.

There is a reasonable likelihood that half price items from China did in fact leave the factory in an unauthorised manner.
I agree that is usually the case. Counterfeiting from scratch would be cost prohibitive.
Still using my $5 Canal St. NY Oakley shades from the 90's.
__________________
Last new bike 1991
dmark is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 07:15 AM
  #6  
Phil_gretz
Zip tie Karen
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,003

Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '16 Motobecane Gran Premio Elite, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1459 Post(s)
Liked 1,531 Times in 801 Posts
ST-R8020 hydraulic brifters? Not counterfeit.

SPD-SL cleats in the bag? Likely counterfeit.

It depends on the barriers to production. Many complex parts are simply not worth the tooling investment to try to duplicate.

To answer the OP's question, it depends. I've purchased a complete R8000 (cable actuated, rim brake) groupset and pedals for a carbon build I did last year - straight from AliExpress. Best prices I could find. No issues whatsoever.

I recently bought what were definitely grey-market TRP RRL levers for $10. Identical to the $80 version, sans the drilling. Do I need the drilled levers? No.
Phil_gretz is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 07:51 AM
  #7  
travbikeman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,639
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times in 100 Posts
IF your worried about it being fake, why not buy them from a company in the U.S.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PD-R550-SPD...-/373097890317

Same Price


EDIT: Dup...reading further on the above, it's Chinese stock being sold by the U.S. business.
travbikeman is offline  
Likes For travbikeman:
Old 08-24-20, 08:38 AM
  #8  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,275

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7771 Post(s)
Liked 4,739 Times in 2,735 Posts
Originally Posted by coffeecherrypie View Post
Take as an example Shimano's Tiagra-level SPD-SL pedals, PD-R550, though I don't think it's limited to this part in particular.

$100 at Performance https://www.performancebike.com/shim...dr550l/p332789
$100 at Jenson https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-PD-R550-Spd-Sl-Pedals

If you type PD-R550 into ebay, you get tons of "from China" results selling them for ~$50, for example https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPD-SL-Pedals-PD-R550-Clipless-Road-Mountain-Bike-Pedal-w-6-Float-Cleats-Plate/373130428879?hash=item56e04e81cf:g:RY4AAOSw5F9fITnA

Are these fakes? Or unauthorized copies made by the same factory or something? Why would they be half of the "real" price.
I think a lot of the direct from China drivetrain components are real. Itd be insanely cost prohibitive to get all the tools needed to build a Tiagra rear derailleur then sell it for 70% of US retail or whatever, especially at the relatively low volumes that we are talking about. Apply that to most anything with a moving/pivoting design.

A jersey is easy to fake. A frame isnt easy to fake, but since there are no real moving parts and its large pieces, its at least easier than drivetrains with all the small moving pieces(especially shifter internals).

I have bought a handful of shifters from China in the last 5 years- Microshift R7 2x7, Microshift R9 2x9, Microshift R9 3x9, Shimano 5800 105, and Shimano 6800 Ultegra, All are as real as shifters I have purchased from Merlin(105 8020 Hydraulic and 6800 Ultegra).
It may be 'factory direct'. It may be 'gray market'. It may be 'black market'. I dont know.
I would disagree that any are from the reject bin as they all work flawlessly as they should.

As for the pedals in question, just order them and pay with paypal. When they arrive, if you think they are fake then open a request for refund due to them being fake. The seller has a 99.6% approval rating, so its not like they are a shell seller that will shut down once they sell a handful of fake product. Paypal protection is for this very concern.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 08-24-20, 08:40 AM
  #9  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,275

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7771 Post(s)
Liked 4,739 Times in 2,735 Posts
Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
They are fakes, quality is shoddy. Usually these fakes get dumped on markets like Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, a lot more than in the US and Europe.
There are plenty of horror stories of Shimano fake cranks suddenly broke off in a sprint, leaving rider destroyed. Chinese fakes are a well known issue in Asia.
How do you know the pedals are fake? And really- how do you know the quality is shoddy?...the pictures are stock pics so you cant see the quality.
This appears to just be a guess that you are passing off as fact.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 08-24-20, 09:37 AM
  #10  
coffeecherrypie
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
I appreciate the insights of everyone who has commented. It does seem hard to credit that it would be worth it to set up tooling just to fake a certain pedal--but who knows. On the other hand, I could easily believe that Shimano ordered a certain number of pedals, and a factory made extra to sell on the gray market, and maybe those have looser QC.
coffeecherrypie is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 10:23 AM
  #11  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,330 Times in 838 Posts
The Shimano Corporation has many sub contracts out, for getting parts made in other places/ countries other than Osaka, Japan.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 12:09 PM
  #12  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,320

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2651 Post(s)
Liked 851 Times in 495 Posts
This thread begs the question, where are "real" Shimano made? And do they farm out cheaper level parts to China?
rydabent is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 12:42 PM
  #13  
coffeecherrypie
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 99
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 7 Posts
I think most Shimano stuff I've gotten says made in Malaysia, although I just got some XTR pedals that do say made in Japan. However I've read that it's not super strict on what is allowed to be labelled "made in Japan" and "finished in Japan" is sometimes more accurate.

Last edited by coffeecherrypie; 08-24-20 at 12:46 PM.
coffeecherrypie is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 12:57 PM
  #14  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 12,102

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1374 Post(s)
Liked 532 Times in 347 Posts
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Most "Fakes" in this World were made side by side with the "real" thing on the same production line yet left the factory in an "unauthorised" manner.
Yes and no. They may be produced on the same line. But that doesn't mean identical quality. They may be produced on a separate run, which can ignore some of the standards the Shimano parts require. So you may get cheaper springs, lower-quality bearings... who knows??? Remember TANSTAAFL - you're taking your chances with the direct-from-china brand name stuff - it may be good or it may be total junk. And Shimano won't help you if you buy a counterfeit product and you have problems.
BlazingPedals is offline  
Likes For BlazingPedals:
Old 08-24-20, 01:14 PM
  #15  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 4,741

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,489 Times in 940 Posts
I can’t speak for all bike parts, as to the same line or truly counterfeit. I have purchased bike parts off eBay that came from China and have not had issues.

Bike parts, while high quantity, might pale in profit compared to counterfeit frames or golf clubs. In those cases the devil is in the details. The cost to accurately reproduce a counterfeit down to the very fine details is what usually is the clue of a counterfeit item. And they will never weigh the same.

For pedals, I would think a close comparison with the real thing, would confirm if it were real or counterfeit. Any small detail, tab, rivet, finish, crispness of lettering. These operations probably need to produce a run, dump, and move on. I doubt they can duplicate the real item exactly.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 03:51 PM
  #16  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,330 Times in 838 Posts
Campagnolo built a factory in Romania to make the lower tier groups.. 'affordable'..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 05:05 PM
  #17  
Toadmeister
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Iowa
Posts: 636

Bikes: 2021 Salsa Fargo 1x12, 2019 Jamis Renegade Exploit 1x11. Motobacne NX Fat Tire

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 184 Post(s)
Liked 312 Times in 158 Posts
Your rolling the dice. Might be good, might be total crap.

if I’m going to be spending Many hours, days, or weeks depending on the performance and quality of a product, I’m not rolling the dice,
Toadmeister is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 05:10 PM
  #18  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 496 Post(s)
Liked 169 Times in 128 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
How do you know the pedals are fake? And really- how do you know the quality is shoddy?...the pictures are stock pics so you cant see the quality.
This appears to just be a guess that you are passing off as fact.
Do you live in these Asian markets: Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia?
Do you ride with a lot of people in these markets who have their new Shimano part just break like cookies?
Do you know the LBS in these places will sell Shimano parts "in bulk", when Shimano doesn't do that, regardless of market.
I live and ride there part time, I know a lot of clubs there, in all these countries, and I know some of their domestic pros, I know the cycling scene in Asia. I'm guessing you're in the US? There are a lot more fakes there than what you're accustomed to seeing int he US or on Aliexpress.
aclinjury is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 05:19 PM
  #19  
Bob the Mech
Senior Member
 
Bob the Mech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: South Wales
Posts: 206

Bikes: 2016 Trek Emonda S6 frameset, custom build (road). 1995 Dawes Genesis Reynolds 531 Competition frameset, custom build (road). 1996 Orange C16R frameset, custom build (retro MTB). Coyote Dual hard-tail, custom build (MTB).

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by coffeecherrypie View Post
Take as an example Shimano's Tiagra-level SPD-SL pedals, PD-R550, though I don't think it's limited to this part in particular.

$100 at Performance https://www.performancebike.com/shim...dr550l/p332789
$100 at Jenson https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-PD-R550-Spd-Sl-Pedals

If you type PD-R550 into ebay, you get tons of "from China" results selling them for ~$50, for example https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPD-SL-Pedals-PD-R550-Clipless-Road-Mountain-Bike-Pedal-w-6-Float-Cleats-Plate/373130428879?hash=item56e04e81cf:g:RY4AAOSw5F9fITnA

Are these fakes? Or unauthorized copies made by the same factory or something? Why would they be half of the "real" price.
Caveat emptor..."Let the buyer beware"...
Bob the Mech is offline  
Likes For Bob the Mech:
Old 08-24-20, 06:11 PM
  #20  
WGB
WGB
 
WGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 4,231

Bikes: Astron Corsaro, Fuji Espree and Takara GT

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1307 Post(s)
Liked 1,015 Times in 722 Posts
I purchased a set of SPD cleats from a seller in China. They were roughly 4/5 the size of real ones, and no they don't fit any pedals though they look great.

I buy bar tape and cables with no issues but since Shimano has no Chinese assembly lines that I know of (can't speak for other brands) as far as I can see the seller would have to be selling stuff that was imported to China so exceptional low prices set warning bells off. Return shipping to there is very high.
WGB is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 06:46 PM
  #21  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 1,404

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Liked 686 Times in 403 Posts
i'd be leary about getting anything that is a critical component that does not look legit. bar tape...ok. derailleur, maybe not.

one of my friends once asked then answered his own question and it has stuck with me ever since..."what do you get from a junk yard...junk."
spelger is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 07:37 PM
  #22  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 9,737

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2803 Post(s)
Liked 1,961 Times in 1,300 Posts
Most fakes are not made by the same workers in the same factories by some magical third shift or they "just fell off the back of the truck" It is a common myth that we love because we can continue supporting the fakes and feel good about it. I would rather support the real thing so I know I can get all the warranties and support from the actual manufacturer.

If something is too good to be true, it most likely is.
veganbikes is offline  
Likes For veganbikes:
Old 08-24-20, 08:43 PM
  #23  
AnthonyG
Senior Member
 
AnthonyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Queanbeyan, Australia.
Posts: 4,124
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3441 Post(s)
Liked 414 Times in 284 Posts
Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Most fakes are not made by the same workers in the same factories by some magical third shift or they "just fell off the back of the truck" It is a common myth that we love because we can continue supporting the fakes and feel good about it. I would rather support the real thing so I know I can get all the warranties and support from the actual manufacturer.

If something is too good to be true, it most likely is.

Err, No. I'm not saying that "fakes" come out of the same factory as the real thing in order to make you feel good about buying them.
Often these "fakes" are seconds. The name "brand" want's them to be destroyed yet there is a strong culture in China and Asia to not waste things. So they get sold in an unauthorised manner.
Also a HUGE source of "fakes" is when the Name Brand changes contract manufacturers. The contract manufacturer is supposed to cease and desist from making the items anymore but they don't. They keep on making the same item which is now a "fake". The quality of these items will definitely slip though as they aim to make them cheaper and cheaper.

The costs involved in creating a "fake" from scratch are HUGE and completely incompatible with the whole modus operandi of making and selling "fakes".
AnthonyG is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 09:06 PM
  #24  
spelger
Senior Member
 
spelger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 1,404

Bikes: yes, i have one

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Liked 686 Times in 403 Posts
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Err, No. I'm not saying that "fakes" come out of the same factory as the real thing in order to make you feel good about buying them.
Often these "fakes" are seconds. The name "brand" want's them to be destroyed yet there is a strong culture in China and Asia to not waste things. So they get sold in an unauthorised manner.
Also a HUGE source of "fakes" is when the Name Brand changes contract manufacturers. The contract manufacturer is supposed to cease and desist from making the items anymore but they don't. They keep on making the same item which is now a "fake". The quality of these items will definitely slip though as they aim to make them cheaper and cheaper.

The costs involved in creating a "fake" from scratch are HUGE and completely incompatible with the whole modus operandi of making and selling "fakes".
there is no culture thing in china to not waste something. there is a culture thing in china to make money though without regard to the poor chaps that become victims of what ever crap they are selling. remember the story about the guy reprocessing sewage as cooking oil? here is a little bit of nastiness to end your day with...https://www.businessinsider.com/chin...er-oil-2013-10
spelger is offline  
Old 08-24-20, 09:25 PM
  #25  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 4,741

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1533 Post(s)
Liked 1,489 Times in 940 Posts
Well not to go off topic, but the Industrial Revolution wasn’t known for creating wonderful childhood memories.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Likes For 70sSanO:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.