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Opinions about frames without fork

Old 01-23-22, 05:14 PM
  #1  
Vitma
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Opinions about frames without fork

Hi,

maybe a stupid question but I am wondering what your take is on purchasing frames without the matching fork?

There could be all kind of different reasons but is this in a “red flag” for you?

Thank you
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Old 01-23-22, 05:19 PM
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Many forks bend without distorting the frame. Check for straightness of tubes with a steel ruler, or at least lots of close-up pics simulating this.
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Old 01-23-22, 05:27 PM
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I avoid. Too many complete frame sets out there. That being said, I misplaced a fork on a frameset I bought. So it does happen. I am still looking......
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Old 01-23-22, 05:27 PM
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Red flag.
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Old 01-23-22, 05:33 PM
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At the very least, if you want the matching fork in the right size, it will be hard to find and wind up costing as much as the "cheap" frame. Don't ask how I know.
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Old 01-23-22, 05:53 PM
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Not necessarily a red flag but reason for caution, especially if buying on the internet. Generally easy enough to tell if there’s a problem on a steel or aluminum frame if buying in person.
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Old 01-23-22, 06:22 PM
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Only buy if you (1) already have a fork that will work, (2) the frame is exceedingly rare, and (3) the frame is straight. Otherwise, hard pass. Plenty of complete, straight examples to be had.

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Old 01-23-22, 06:33 PM
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I’ve done a couple builds using carbon forks and modern 10 speed groups. Usually turns out to make really nice riders.
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Old 01-23-22, 06:53 PM
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I am on year three searching for the correct fork for this early sixties Torpado Professional "as found" with 27" wheels and after market fork...


I did have a 700c fork, the proper size, that does work but I just cannot bring myself to build it up until I find the right fork...


Put another way, don't expect joy by buying a frame only!
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Old 01-23-22, 07:03 PM
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I'd take it on a case-by-case basis. Some forks break without the frame having a problem. Maybe not even from misuse!

My Vitus, I bought without a fork, and then purchased a Vitus fork separately. It's been my most reliable frame, honestly.
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Old 01-23-22, 07:31 PM
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Timely question as I've been looking for a 19-20 inch rigid mtb frame for a while. Slim pickins from what I've seen...at least in what I'm looking for(higher-end steel or possibly aluminum). Most seem to be frames without forks. Sort of torks me off a bit as I've found aftermarket forks the right size and decent quality can be slim pickins too. Can there be THAT many bent forks or are people just breaking up the frame and fork to make more money?

Today I located what looks to be a nice 19 inch 1995 Stumpjumper M2..no fork. From research, it appears the original rigid fork has an ATC of 410-415mm(?), 1 1/8ths threadless. I've almost considered picking up a donor Rockhopper or Hardrock bike just for the fork, though not sure if the same fork was used nor if a threadless version was used in these bikes (or at least what years/models..more research needed). By the time I did all this I'd be better off buy a frame with a fork or a complete bike and use the components I have to upgrade if or as needed. I thought this might be easier..

If I needed a 16, 17, 18 inch frame there's more to choose from, but 19-20 there's much fewer around.
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Old 01-23-22, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
Timely question as I've been looking for a 19-20 inch rigid mtb frame for a while. Slim pickins from what I've seen...at least in what I'm looking for(higher-end steel or possibly aluminum). Most seem to be frames without forks. Sort of torks me off a bit as I've found aftermarket forks the right size and decent quality can be slim pickins too. Can there be THAT many bent forks or are people just breaking up the frame and fork to make more money?

Today I located what looks to be a nice 19 inch 1995 Stumpjumper M2..no fork. From research, it appears the original rigid fork has an ATC of 410-415mm(?), 1 1/8ths threadless. I've almost considered picking up a donor Rockhopper or Hardrock bike just for the fork, though not sure if the same fork was used nor if a threadless version was used in these bikes (or at least what years/models..more research needed). By the time I did all this I'd be better off buy a frame with a fork or a complete bike and use the components I have to upgrade if or as needed. I thought this might be easier..

If I needed a 16, 17, 18 inch frame there's more to choose from, but 19-20 there's much fewer around.
In the case of MTBs, I often find people toss the original rigid forks so they can have a suspension fork instead. Two/three/four owners later, the original forks are long gone. Ruins the vintage ones IMHO. I've seen Kleins where someone tossed the fork. Ouch!!
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Old 01-23-22, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
In the case of MTBs, I often find people toss the original rigid forks so they can have a suspension fork instead. Two/three/four owners later, the original forks are long gone. Ruins the vintage ones IMHO. I've seen Kleins where someone tossed the fork. Ouch!!
Makes sense..the suspension fork craze. When they first became available they were all the rage. I suppose the rigid ones seemed worthless at the time.
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Old 01-23-22, 07:54 PM
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I've never bought a frame without a fork but sold a couple. Those I bought just to get the forks. Sold them cheap.
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Old 01-23-22, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by iab View Post
At the very least, if you want the matching fork in the right size, it will be hard to find and wind up costing as much as the "cheap" frame. Don't ask how I know.

...this. And yes, don't ask, please.
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Old 01-23-22, 08:40 PM
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Original forks

FIRST QUESTION???

What happened to the original fork???


There are lots of reasons listed above as to why the fork is missing... One that hasn't been mentioned: a PO replaced the steel fork with a carbon fiber fork on classic racing bike...

Back when this was commonplace, lots of 1Di0Ts threw away the original steel fork because... why would anyone want to go back to something old fashioned. Also some just misplaced the original fork or lost it in moves and so on.

Getting back to original fork issues, I bought an early 80's Motobecane Team Champion frame on eBay back in 2007 and did a local pickup. As I walked up to the seller he held it out. From 20 feet away I could tell the fork was WRONG!!! It was a Tange 27" replacement fork!





First thing I did was feel under the top and down tubes at the head tube - there were slight ripples! It was such a beautiful frame, I was sick!

After some discussion, I took it to a frame builder friend and we checked the alignment. It was OK even with the ripples but the 27" replacement fork caused the frame to sit 1/2" higher in the front which changed the front end geometry. I negotiated about a 50% refund with the seller and started assembling it but was so bummed out that it sat for about 8 years.

Years later I bought a 1980's Gitane that came with 2 forks. They had the same crown and geometry as the original Motobecane fork so I finished it with that Gitane fork.



I only rode it a few times and didn't like the handling so I sold it last year.

BTW, I've checked the alignment on all the frames and bikes that I've acquired. I can check and realign most of them at home. If it takes more, I have my frame builder friend do the work.

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Old 01-23-22, 11:01 PM
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Thank you all for the input. That’s very helpful.

I always wondered but what triggered my thread was a 90s Colnago Master, that, as verktyg mentioned as an unfortunate option, has a carbon fork instead of the Precisa steel fork. How can you switch that fork?
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Old 01-24-22, 07:41 AM
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@Vitma - Back in 2014 I found a TREK 760 that was a project. After bringing it home, I noticed the front fork was a Giant unicrown! Bummer. The fork for the 760 in '84/'85 was unique with the crown and 38mm rake. The only aftermarket one was a track fork and more than what I paid for the bike.

I looked for a while and finally found a fork on the bay. Long story short, the seller was local and upon pickup, discovered it was bent. I bent it back (steerer was straight). The fortunate thing was the fork was an '85 and off a 60cm frame. My frame is an '84 and 60cm.

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Old 01-24-22, 08:37 AM
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A few frame only builds I’ve done.








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Old 01-24-22, 08:38 AM
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For me a Red Flag without a good explanation. My bare frame purchases: Rockhopper MTB as fork rebuild was $200, Viscount death fork, and aluminum fork end (he gave me) was bent/cracked when he dropped the fork. My favorite was a Allez Pro that came from Specialized with an aluminum fork for some reason (weight?) and he showed me that he followed Mr. Internet's suggestions on how to remove the scratched up anodizing and surface of the fork looked like a raised relief map or three-dimensional representation of the local mountain ranges around Tucson.
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Old 01-24-22, 11:53 AM
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Mixing and matching frames and forks is pretty advanced stuff. As many have mentioned, it begs the question - why is there no fork? Was there damage to the fork, which might impact the frame?

Assuming the frame is good, it's next to impossible to find an exact match for a replacement fork unless it's of fairly recent vintage. Some of the basic dimensions on the fork, such as axle to crown dimension and fork offset (rake) need to be known, or an experienced shop mechanic or framebuilder needs to analyze the frame geometry, the rider's intended use, take into account the head tube length and diameter, threaded vs threadless, wheel and tire size and type/size of brake, and possibly other considerations to determine a suitable replacement.

I've purchased a couple of frames that did not have an OEM fork. In those occasions I built my own fork to match the frame and how I wanted to ride it. It's really hard to find a framebuilder who will build you a custom fork, and if you do, it'll almost surely cost more than what you paid for a used frame.

I wouldn't buy a frame by itself unless you really knew what you were doing, or had someone that did advise you.
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Old 01-24-22, 12:03 PM
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I bought a mid-90s cannondale road frame without fork. I wanted to go threadless so it didnt matter to me if there was no fork. The frame isnt damaged- no idea what happened to the fork and dont care.

If this were an older steel frameset where I wanted to keep it threaded, then sure I would want the fork and most likely pass on the frame alone.
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Old 01-24-22, 12:08 PM
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I was building up a Motobecane that was missing a fork and found I could not find or get a fork to give me that Motobecane ride. On turfing it out to another of interest he ended up buying another Motobecane just to get the fork. If I had a choice I would not buy a frame without its fork...
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Old 01-24-22, 12:25 PM
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I don't like the idea of trying to find a replacement fork because the frame and fork were designed to go together - a change on the for geometry affects everything. For that reason, I've only ever bought frame-and-fork combos - with one exception. For that one, I bought (traded for, actually,) the frame only. It was a true grail for me (mid-60s Cinelli, written about at length elsewhere in C&V) in a not-common size (64cm ctc), so i did it. I didn't even think to check the alignment other than eyeballing. Not smart.

I had a fork for it, though. Same maker, a few years older, that came from a frame that was rusted out. The fact that I had the fork was the reason I was willing to get the frame only. The steerer tube needed to be lengthened, which was easily done by Ed Litton. So I have a cobbled together kinda-sorta Frankenframe, although frame and fork are both from Cinelli.

The result? Only the nest riding bike I have ever owned, the one I reach for 80 or 90% of the time. The one someone will have to pry out of my cold, dead hands.

I doubt if I will buy a frame-only again, though. There is nothing I want so much that I would be willing to deal with finding-the-right-fork issues.
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Old 01-24-22, 12:53 PM
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The Superior arrived with a non-original 27” fork. I purchased the frame from a long-time member here who said the original fork “fell apart”. Bike was being used by a PO hardcore commuter, so I don’t doubt it.

The stock fork was OEM Tange, 700C. I happened to have one stashed away and it works well.

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