sincos

Well, new to me, anyway. From the catalogs I'm guessing 1976 (from paint and kit, mostly. No tubing sticker remains). This is probably a stupid question but how would I determine the BB threading here? It looks like something was stamped on the fixed cup (below) but somehow that got ground off. I can't tell from the inside as the threading was not very deep and all taken up by the cup. It's a Stronglight 651 BB, btw, with alloy cups. For now I'm leaving it in, but it would be nice to know the threading if I have to replace the cup. Anyway, start with the CL listing photo:




Jubilee RD missing locknut, previous owner cranked it on at an interesting angle ...


Maillard hubs (non-Helicomatic), Rigida rims, BarCon shifters, Sakae crankset, KKT pedals, Suntour Pro Compe freewheel (14-28), Pivo stem and bars, Weinmann red label Vainqueurs, hideous boat anchor SR post, generic saddle. Jubilee RD is close ratio.




drive side



NDS



Suntour Vx FD, frame has lots of "patina"



Fixed cup, one flat munged, thread information ground off



Campag dropouts


At least not Huret dropouts




Edco headset! Not something you see everyday



BB shell

decals have seen better days

The paint has seen better days, and the decals are half off but you can just about see a faded "Grand Jubile" on the top tube.

verktyg 

sincos

Interesting bike... Never saw a Grand Jubile with Campy dropouts.

The Motobecane Grand Jubile model was introduced in 1973. It didn't appear in the catalog until 1974.

They were intended to coincide with the 1973 introduction of Huret's Jubilee derailleurs in celebration of their Jubilee anniversary which occurred in 1970 - better late than never. Supposedly Huret produced their first derailleur in 1930 so you do the math...

The original GJs came with proprietary Huret dropouts for Huret derailleurs. By mid to late 1975 Motobecane was switching from Huret Jubilee to Suntour Cyclone derailleurs on the GJs. They started using Suntour dropouts that incorporated the de facto Campagnolo style derailleur hangers. The Campy dropouts were probably used to fill up a gap in the supply chain. They cost the bike makers 50% to 70% more than French or Japanese dropouts.

The first GJs came with wimpy weight weenie Huret Jubilee short cage derailleurs limited to a 28T FW sprocket. Since the GJs were being billed as "club tourers", they began to be equipped with long arm Jubilees in mid to late 1974 - described as "wide ratio" in the 1975 US catalog.

In mid to late 1975 Motobecane switched to the first generation Suntour Cyclone GT long arm RDs with Cyclone FDs and Suntour ratcheting down tube Power Shifters. The 1976 catalog lists both the Huret Jubilee and the Suntour Cyclone GT rear derailleurs on the GJs. There was probably a lot of inventory in the pipeline and the older stock bikes had Huret derailleurs?

Ben Lawee was the Motobecane importer and distributor back then. He was a master marketer of bikes. By the end of the Bike Boom Fad in early 1974, French components, namely Huret and Simplex had gained a well deserved reputation for being fussy to use and hard to maintain. At the same time Suntour's reputation for making derailleurs that were easy to use was growing.

Back in the 70's derailleur bikes (10 Speed Racers) were being bought by Americans who had little or now experience with shifting gears.... So, if you want to sell bikes make them easy to ride and use!!! DOH!

By the end of the boom the European component maker (primarily French) still hadn't caught the demand. That opened the door for the other Japanese component maker. In addition, they were generally less money for the European bike manufacturers.

My guess is that this bike is a mid to late 1975 model that had been somewhat parted out at some point and then built back up with a mix of components. Reason being, the Huret bottom bracket cable guide and the expensive Campy dropouts.

At that time, Campy dropouts added ~$15 to the wholesale cost of a French bike, ~$7.00 more than French dropouts. Motobecane wouldn't have spent that extra money unless they had too.

The BB threads are (or were) probably French metric - RH both sides. There's a possibility that the bike could have a Swiss threaded BB with LH fixed cup threads.

Looking at the fixed cup, the file marks are probably the result of the precision work done by a ham fisted hammersmith shade tree mechanic!

From the bottom view, the fixed cup is not flush with the BB shell face. It almost appears that the fixed cup was forced in and that's as far as it would go.

What are the thread size markings on the adjustable cup? They should say 35 X 1 for French threads. British BSC threads are stamped 1" .37 x 24T.





If some afore mentioned watch maker did force a LH BSC threaded fixed cup into the bottom bracket, leave it alone unless you're planning on replace the whole BB then you may have to cut the old aluminum cup out!

As far as the Jubilee RD goes, Huret made a number of versions. The first generation were designed for either Huret dropouts or Campagnolo style dropouts and they're not generally interchangeable. Later versions were made to fit either style dropout with adapters.

The way your RD is pointing backwards, I suspect that you have one made for a Huret hanger.



My suggestion is go find another RD, any RD that will fit a Campy style hanger... Unless of course you have some affinity for fussy French stuff... hahaha

One last thing, the first Motobecane Grand Jubile bikes were supposedly marked Grand Jubilee but that was changed by Ben Lawee's influence so the the bikes that he imported could be easily equipped with what ever components he wanted. When he spoke, Motobecane listened!

I heard the story from a good source BITD and I think that I saw one or two marked Grand Jubilee back then...

DOH! One last thing, only the 3 main tubes are made of butted Reynolds 531 tubing. The forks and rear stays made with reasonably light gauge Motobecane carbon steel tubes. I had two 1974 GJs that I built up from bare frames. Excellent riding and handling bikes.

Good luck,

verktyg

75lechamp 

I've had 3 '74 Grand Jubiles over the years, and each had 531 main tubes, with Campy dropouts and Huret Jubilee derailleurs. The typical Stronglight bottom bracket I have experienced on these bikes have no thread markings but are usually French threaded, though I have heard they can be Swiss on occasion. Below is my most recent Jubile's bottom bracket. Unlike yours, it has an eight sided face, with a single groove. Generally speaking, I think a single groove denotes French threading. What I can tell on yours is that it does appear to have a single groove. I would bet it's French....



8 sided fixed cup, with single groove

verktyg 

Check out my photos above... The OP sincos has a Stronglight 651 Sealed Bearing BB with alloy cups. They had the tread size stamped into them.

I suspect that the outside face of the alloy fixed cup got chewed up by the drive side crank arm which could have been too close.

This could have happened if the BB spindle was installed backwards with DS crank arm mounted on the shorter adjustable cup end:



Also, check out what I said above about the hamersmith who installed the BB.



The drive side end of the Stronglight spindle could be too short or not have enough extension for the "melt forged" (read cast aluminum) SR crank arm allowing it to contact the cup face and wear a groove into it - see picture on the left below.



All of the brouhaha about JIS and ISO cranks and spindles is meaningless once the cranks have been mounted. The soft aluminum deforms to fit the BB taper. Each time the cranks are removed and replaced the squares in the arms expand more which allows the arms to seat further onto the spindle.

Simple answer: IF IT FITS, IT WORKS!

verktyg

John E

I am speculating that is it Swiss-threaded, and some bozo unsuccessfully tried to unscrew it anticlockwise.
Of course, it could be French-threaded, and some bozo unsuccessfully tried to unscrew it clockwise.

Sometimes you can look through the BB shell from the non-drive side to see enough of the fixed cup threads to determine their handedness. Leave-it-alone may indeed be a rational course of action, if it is in passable shape.

droppedandlost 

I have one with Campy dropouts that I'm calling a 73-1/2.
Wrote about it here.

sincos

Thanks all, such a wealth of information here as usual.

I suspect you're right. The adjustable, btw, has no thread info I can see and it doesn't look abused. Actually, all of the bearings (wheels, headset, and of course the sealed BB) are in very good shape.

As verktyg pointed out, the fixed cup isn't flush with the shell. It's screwed in as far as it will go so I can't see any threads from the inside. The cups don't have races so I'm fine leaving it in. But it would be nice to know which way to unscrew should it ever come to that.

Anyway, I touched up the paint for rust purposes (took several tries to get something that wasn't a complete eyesore. Still not a great match, but at least the bare spots are protected.) Pretty much any bike I've had was acquired as a frame and built up with a mix of parts, so I don't really know what authentic means. This one is no different, several changes have been made and purists may cringe. Braking was comical and I can't seem to get along with centerpulls (with cable yokes, anyway) so I replaced the Vainqueurs with Carreras. The brake levers felt rather flimsy so were replaced with some species of Campag Record (Super, I think). Found a pair of finned Mathausers in the parts bin for the front, Aztecs for the rear, and braking is now quite good. Saddle replaced with Rolls, seatpost with an undersized Zeus. Chain was replaced by Regina SL, crankset is now TA Vis 5 Pro. This is supposed to be a commuter/city bike so pedals were replaced with new MKS "Nouveau Berthet". Still trying to figure out which pedals will work for that role. As pictured it's right at 11 kg.

No idea why the seller had the RD at that weird angle ...



Slightly unorthodox cable routing ...


Original hoods have split, Soma replacements pretty close (if you don't look too close!)


I like the post, not sure about the shim


Not a big fan of bar-ends, partly because of excessive cable clunk factor, and I'm definitely not a fan of Suntour ratchet shifters (though the bar cons are nicer than the downtube versions) but I'll give them a chance. To clean up cable routing with minimal headtube fretting I have the left hand controlling the rear brake and derailleur while the right controls the front. I figure I don't have any habits to break with barcons; as far as the brakes, I always set up that way. Also not sure about the Zeus post. I like it, but it's a 25.8 post in a 26.6 seat tube, and I wonder if the shim will act as a water conduit down the seat tube.

Details aside, it's pretty nice! Smooth, stable ride including at low speed, quick but not nervous handling, haven't tried it at high speed yet, though. The Jubilee looks like it will fold if you look at it wrong, but it has a light, positive action without the overshift and trim of you-know-what. Seems to be for a Campag d/o, no clue why the seller had it pointing backwards. This is supposed to be a city/commuter, so it may get replaced by a Cyclone II for daily use.

top506

FWIW, both GJs that I've had in the barn had Campy drop outs. Oddly, one was drilled for the Huret-style derlin DO adjusters, the other standard 3mm.

Top

motogeek 

Also in the "for what it's worth" category, I bought my first Grand Jubile new in 1974 and it had Campy rear dropouts (silver with red panels paint). At some point the fork steerer tube cracked and I replaced with with a 531 fork from a Grand Record, also with Campy front dropouts.

John E

I am going to set up my Carton with reversed barcon cabling, because the SunTour barcons I bought have a truly lousy index mode, which will bother me less on the front derailleur than the rear, which I want to run in nonindexed ratch mode, anyway.