Go Back  Bike Forums > Community Connections > Regional Discussions > Northern California
Reload this Page >

Newsom vetoes stop sign law for cyclists

Notices
Northern California Northern California

Newsom vetoes stop sign law for cyclists

Old 10-21-21, 10:09 AM
  #1  
cthenn
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 2,664

Bikes: 2023 Canyon Aeoroad CF SL, 2015 Trek Emonda SLR, 2002 Litespeed Classic, 2005 Bianchi Pista, Some BikesDirect MTB I never ride.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 647 Post(s)
Liked 135 Times in 88 Posts
Newsom vetoes stop sign law for cyclists

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...-for-cyclists/

Bummer. Was hoping this would get signed, but it doesn't really change the way I ride. Still usually blow through most stop signs in residential neighborhoods (before checking for cars obvs), and never would run stop signs on busy roads. It would have been nice to be able to do that without being yelled at half the time by drivers.
cthenn is offline  
Old 10-21-21, 10:42 AM
  #2  
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,623

Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1005 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times in 1,030 Posts
Yeah, I'm no happy about this, either. I mean, I voted "no" on the recall. Newsome owed it to me to sign the damn bill. What's that you say? That only works if I make a bazillion dollar campaign contribution? I guess that explains it. Who knew?

Have you read the veto message? Claptrap claiming the bill would endanger kiddies riding their bikes to school. No mention of how every state that has enacted the "Idaho stop" saw their bike accident rates go down. The tone suggests that the bill would legalize blowing through stop signs at speed with nary a glance - which it does not, of course. But I guess one should never expect facts to overcome preconceived notions.

As for drivers yelling at you, the ones who are yelling at you now would still have yelled at you even if Newsome had signed AB122.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline  
Likes For bikingshearer:
Old 10-21-21, 12:03 PM
  #3  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,651

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10243 Post(s)
Liked 11,596 Times in 5,943 Posts
Originally Posted by cthenn
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...-for-cyclists/

Bummer. Was hoping this would get signed, but it doesn't really change the way I ride. Still usually blow through most stop signs in residential neighborhoods (before checking for cars obvs), and never would run stop signs on busy roads. It would have been nice to be able to do that without being yelled at half the time by drivers.
HA! Like it being legal would stop them.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 10-21-21, 12:56 PM
  #4  
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 9,991

Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek

Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4310 Post(s)
Liked 2,953 Times in 1,601 Posts
Yeah, it is a bummer, but I don't really hear of a lot of people getting "not coming to a complete stop" tickets (1), so it's probably not a big deal.

(1) Except for those bogus rentacops in Danville/Diablo ... don't get me started.

Originally Posted by genejockey
HA! Like it being legal would stop them.
It's not like they have any idea what's in the CVC either.
DiabloScott is online now  
Old 10-21-21, 01:04 PM
  #5  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,775

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,366 Posts
In a single party state it's rare enough anything gets vetoed. That's probably the most newsworthy thing in the story. I doubt Newsom himself spent more than a couple of seconds thinking about this. He's got bigger problems to worry about. Although I'm sure he did make a final decision based on one or two ppt pages of pro/con input from his staff. Wonder if there was actually anyone working against it or the backers just failed to make it sound better than not.

He also basically says "we're already doing a lot" which is, for a US state, true.

OCT O8 2021

To the Members of the California State Assembly:

I am returning Assembly Bill 122 without my signature.

This bill would allow a person riding a bicycle to proceed through a stop sign as if it were a yield sign until January 1, 2028.

While I share the author's intent to increase bicyclist safety, I am concerned this bill will have the opposite effect. The approach in AB 122 may be especially concerning for children, who may not know how to judge vehicle speeds or exercise the necessary caution to yield to traffic when appropriate.

Fatalities and serious injuries have been on the rise on the state's roads since 2010. The Statewide Integrated Traffic Records System shows that, since 2015, there were 3,059 crashes involving bicycles at an intersection in which the primary collision factor was failure to stop at a stop sign. The data indicates bicyclists were determined to be at fault for 88 percent of the collisions resulting in fatalities and 63 percent of those involving injuries.

I fully support safe and equitable access to the state's transportation network for bicyclists. The California Climate Action Plan for Transportation Infrastructure describes how the state will invest in the transportation network to create safe and accessible bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure. The Department of Transportation (Caltrans} and the California State Transportation Agency are increasing active transportation investments and will release design guidance on traffic calming measures this year to encourage more walking and biking through a safe systems approach. For these reasons, I am returning this bill.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17

Last edited by Darth Lefty; 10-21-21 at 01:19 PM.
Darth Lefty is offline  
Old 10-21-21, 01:32 PM
  #6  
mdarnton
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Chicago
Posts: 309

Bikes: nothing to brag about

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 206 Times in 116 Posts
So stick with me here for a moment of brutal logic:
1/ I assume that most bike riders make allowances that children may do anything at any moment, in any place, stop sign or not, and that this law would not change that, nor would it change the behavior of children.
2/ The law is aimed at the interaction between bikes and cars, not bikes and children.
3/ If the Gov assumes that this law will change something, he's making an assumption outside of those two points so perhaps he should address what appears to be a problem he has either with children driving cars, and enforce those laws more strictly, or he should move to stop licensing young children to drive cars, if that's his problem..
4/ The other possibility is that his statement makes no sense at all.
mdarnton is offline  
Likes For mdarnton:
Old 10-21-21, 02:55 PM
  #7  
Darth Lefty 
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,775

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,102 Times in 1,366 Posts
mdarnton you've misread. The statement worries about kids on bikes running stop signs with poor judgment, not cyclists mowing down kids in crosswalks
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Darth Lefty is offline  
Old 10-21-21, 03:25 PM
  #8  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Paul Barnard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,843

Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2131 Post(s)
Liked 1,639 Times in 822 Posts
Is it really a surprise that given a choice between keeping a restriction in place and giving people more freedom, that he opted for the former?
Paul Barnard is offline  
Likes For Paul Barnard:
Old 10-21-21, 04:13 PM
  #9  
cthenn
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 2,664

Bikes: 2023 Canyon Aeoroad CF SL, 2015 Trek Emonda SLR, 2002 Litespeed Classic, 2005 Bianchi Pista, Some BikesDirect MTB I never ride.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 647 Post(s)
Liked 135 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
Is it really a surprise that given a choice between keeping a restriction in place and giving people more freedom, that he opted for the former?


Somebody's mad about the recall...
cthenn is offline  
Likes For cthenn:
Old 10-21-21, 04:14 PM
  #10  
cthenn
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 2,664

Bikes: 2023 Canyon Aeoroad CF SL, 2015 Trek Emonda SLR, 2002 Litespeed Classic, 2005 Bianchi Pista, Some BikesDirect MTB I never ride.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 647 Post(s)
Liked 135 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey
HA! Like it being legal would stop them.
Well what I guess I meant is that I wouldn't feel bad or "guilty" if I did that and it was legal. I get yelled at for running stop signs and some signals, and I know I'm doing something against the law, so I feel a little sheepish about it.
cthenn is offline  
Old 10-21-21, 06:43 PM
  #11  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Paul Barnard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 5,843

Bikes: Lynskey GR300, Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2131 Post(s)
Liked 1,639 Times in 822 Posts
Originally Posted by cthenn


Somebody's mad about the recall...
Or someone realizes that historically it is far more likely for government to impose restrictions than loosen them.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Likes For Paul Barnard:
Old 10-21-21, 10:20 PM
  #12  
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,623

Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1005 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times in 1,030 Posts
Originally Posted by mdarnton
So stick with me here for a moment of brutal logic:
1/ I assume that most bike riders make allowances that children may do anything at any moment, in any place, stop sign or not, and that this law would not change that, nor would it change the behavior of children.
2/ The law is aimed at the interaction between bikes and cars, not bikes and children.
3/ If the Gov assumes that this law will change something, he's making an assumption outside of those two points so perhaps he should address what appears to be a problem he has either with children driving cars, and enforce those laws more strictly, or he should move to stop licensing young children to drive cars, if that's his problem..
4/ The other possibility is that his statement makes no sense at all.
Numbers 1 through 3 may or may not be correct, but Number 4 is definitely 100% correct.

Put another way, the veto message is full of Number 2.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline  
Old 10-22-21, 04:35 AM
  #13  
Attilio
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 187

Bikes: Salsa!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 39 Posts
This may sound dangerous but as a cyclist I act like traffic laws only exist for cars and then adapt my way around them to minimize chance of contact with same said motor vehicles.

This translates into running stop signs and red lights almost all the time only because most of the near misses I had was in the "acceleration" phase crossing an intersection usually due to a red light or stop sign. Especially if I am familiar with an intersection, know the timing of the lights which can easily be surmised and at that moment more than one lane is clear (so what is green in the moment is empty and has nothing to run you over) it's just better to cross the intersection which at that moment you have to yourself then have to worry about "sharing" it with cars. I have greatly reduced honking, cars steering around me and near misses by doing it that way. If you don't have to stop don't stop, keep going.

The other beauty of conserving momentum is that you can get out of the way. I got a helmet mounted rearview mirror to see behind and it's helped as well in many instances to turn left. Once you're stopped at an intersection you're a sitting duck. Unless there's a sidewalk or good roadside on which to hide out you're right there and not really able to move much when stopped so evasive action is almost never a possibility. So never say always or never but generally stopping at red lights or stop signs is bad news more often than not.
Attilio is offline  
Old 10-22-21, 10:09 AM
  #14  
curbtender
Senior Member
 
curbtender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SF Bay Area, East bay
Posts: 8,680

Bikes: Miyata 618 GT, Marinoni, Kestral 200 2002 Trek 5200, KHS Flite, Koga Miyata, Schwinn Spitfire 5, Mondia Special, Univega Alpina, Miyata team Ti, Santa Cruz Highball

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1589 Post(s)
Liked 2,486 Times in 1,188 Posts
It would be nice to at least know which cities have a need to enforce these laws. Downtown Larkspur is notorious...and my hometown Pinole whenever there is a bike event.
curbtender is online now  
Old 10-22-21, 10:57 AM
  #15  
cthenn
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 2,664

Bikes: 2023 Canyon Aeoroad CF SL, 2015 Trek Emonda SLR, 2002 Litespeed Classic, 2005 Bianchi Pista, Some BikesDirect MTB I never ride.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 647 Post(s)
Liked 135 Times in 88 Posts
Originally Posted by curbtender
It would be nice to at least know which cities have a need to enforce these laws. Downtown Larkspur is notorious...and my hometown Pinole whenever there is a bike event.
Woodside
Diablo
There was some enforcement in my Walnut Creek neighborhood several years ago, specifically targeting cyclists, but that ended a while ago.
cthenn is offline  
Old 10-22-21, 11:17 AM
  #16  
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,623

Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1005 Post(s)
Liked 2,465 Times in 1,030 Posts
As with many things, Berkeley has adopted a pretty laid back attitude. If you do an Idaho stop here, odds of your getting ticketed are very slight. Not zero, but very slight. Heck, if you just blow through a stop sign with nary a glance, you're unlikely to get a ticket. I believe it is the official policy of the Democratic People's Republic* handed down by the Politburo* to have the Police Department go with the Idaho stop, although it isn't phrased that way.

* I use these terms as a gentle jibe, not as a condemnation or declaration of political belief. Berkeley government has some policies I consider quirky, mostly okay, some less so. On balance, I like it here but recognize the, well, quirkiness of the place and the sometimes weird results. The city and the people are pretty bike-tolerant, even bike-friendly, however, so that is a big plus as far as I am concerned.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline  
Old 10-22-21, 11:50 AM
  #17  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
In San Diego it seems like they've been allowing bikes to treat stop signs as yields for a while. I've rolled through stop signs in view of cops many times without issue. I do it safely though, slow down and look. My main fear is other cyclists that might cross my path and are also rolling through their stop signs.
tyrion is offline  
Old 10-27-21, 09:42 PM
  #18  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,752

Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1524 Post(s)
Liked 1,513 Times in 906 Posts
I know for a fact that the state sheriff's assn. lobbied against this and the decriminalizing jaywalking bill. I'll bet dollars to donuts that other law enforcement orgs did too. Jerks.

I will continue to slow through stop signs when safe.

Just today I saw a twit in a car completely blow through a stop sign at a busy intersection; he didn't even slow down. No cops anywhere.
Korina is offline  
Likes For Korina:
Old 10-28-21, 10:14 AM
  #19  
ztmlgr
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 18 Times in 15 Posts
Originally Posted by Attilio
This may sound dangerous but as a cyclist I act like traffic laws only exist for cars and then adapt my way around them to minimize chance of contact with same said motor vehicles.

This translates into running stop signs and red lights almost all the time only because most of the near misses I had was in the "acceleration" phase crossing an intersection usually due to a red light or stop sign. Especially if I am familiar with an intersection, know the timing of the lights which can easily be surmised and at that moment more than one lane is clear (so what is green in the moment is empty and has nothing to run you over) it's just better to cross the intersection which at that moment you have to yourself then have to worry about "sharing" it with cars. I have greatly reduced honking, cars steering around me and near misses by doing it that way. If you don't have to stop don't stop, keep going.

The other beauty of conserving momentum is that you can get out of the way. I got a helmet mounted rearview mirror to see behind and it's helped as well in many instances to turn left. Once you're stopped at an intersection you're a sitting duck. Unless there's a sidewalk or good roadside on which to hide out you're right there and not really able to move much when stopped so evasive action is almost never a possibility. So never say always or never but generally stopping at red lights or stop signs is bad news more often than not.
Thanks for your explanation as to why you run red lights. It makes some amount of sense. However, on balance, I think the extra margin of safety you feel that you gain by running red lights is offset by the increased negative perception of bicyclists by those motorists who were sitting patiently at the red light and just watched you blow through it. These are things that I think spawn new "bike-haters". "Running red lights" seems to be the hot-button you will see on various online forums when the topic of cyclist bad behavior comes up. Also, remember that those motorists who saw you blow through the light are probably going to catch up to you later at which point they may not be in a mood to "share the road" anymore and take some kind of punitive action against you, such as passing too close, shouting a few choice expletives out the window, or worse.,
ztmlgr is offline  
Likes For ztmlgr:
Old 11-16-21, 12:39 PM
  #20  
SCTinkering
Senior Member
 
SCTinkering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 137

Bikes: 2020 T-Lab X-3 w/GRX Di2, 2018 Trek FX-5S with GRX/Xt 1x drive train

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 25 Posts
Stop signs are stupid.
SCTinkering is offline  
Old 11-16-21, 01:09 PM
  #21  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,527

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5218 Post(s)
Liked 3,564 Times in 2,331 Posts
there are rules & then there's enforcement. it's one thing to let it slide, it's another to say it's OK
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 11-17-21, 02:08 PM
  #22  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,752

Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1524 Post(s)
Liked 1,513 Times in 906 Posts
Originally Posted by SCTinkering
Stop signs are stupid. https://youtu.be/42oQN7fy_eM
Agree 100%. Still... My small city installed a bunch of new stop signs in 2019, and it has helped at least the perception of safety a lot. Despite it being downtown with plenty of pedestrians and bikes, cars did not want to slow down. Crossing 11th St., a major collector, on foot or bike was hair raising. It wasn't the drivers' fault, it was the street design; wide and straight, with not so much as a crosswalk for over half a mile; perfect for driving 40mph, never mind the 25mph speed limit. Hell, on the residential street where I live, every day we have idiots gunning their cars as fast as they can for the three (small residential) blocks to 7th St. and the first stop sign. I would suggest raised crosswalks, but our streets have been resurfaced so many times the crowns are higher than the sidewalks.

Sorry for the rant; I've been reading Chuck Mahrone's Confessions of a Recovering Engineer, and it's kind of blowing my mind.
Korina is offline  
Likes For Korina:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.