kunsunoke 

I don't know anybody that's been the target of a Specialized-initiated legal action. I understand that companies try to protect trademarks and IP - my own company does that, in fact. Specialized has a bad habit of jumping straight to threats and legal actions, when the targets had no intention whatsoever of infringement or violation, and that's why they take criticism. Other companies manage to get by without the threats, and they still protect their trademarks. It's how adults do things.

For the Roubaix situation, had I been gifted with the responsibility of protecting the trademark, I'd have cut some sort of deal with the owner without threatening the guy's income. This is done routinely, and protects the trademark holder in court.

Sometimes the other guy is being a jerk.

Of what? Critique? Lost sales, due to the public-relations disaster that ensues? If you understand about the risk, then why do you have a problem with people questioning the ethics and wisdom of the company that took the risk?

Where do you think the corporate values and objectives come from, if not from Sinyard?

Sinyard has already stolen IP from Fisher and Ritchey, so one would think he'd be a little bit more reasonable.

Well, in Sinyard's case I'm sure it had everything to do with what he thought were valid business reasons - which, in the case of Specialized, involves "protecting" things like appearance, colors and town names from trademark violations. Sinyard seems to think he and his company have trademarks on everything in the public domain, which seems to be an easy way to make money and intimidate potential competitors you might have.

Sinyard sued Robert Choi for breach of contract and for theft of company secrets (An expensive dollar: Volagi owes Specialized $1 - VeloNews.com). Maybe he thought that Gary Fisher and Tom Ritchey were his employees as well, and that their innovations were actually his, retroactively. I'm actually surprised he hasn't sued those two guys as well.

I don't recall hating on the bikes. The genesis of the design belongs to Fisher and Ritchey, so of course they work properly.

Jeff Neese

I keep hearing people repeat those things, but can't find any evidence to support that. In fact I read an interview with Tom Ritchey where he outlined the history, and never once did he use the word stolen, or theft, or anything of the kind. Was his design copyrighted? Was there a lawsuit? Did HE sue Sinyard? No. And why is this different than all the frames that Giant "copied" based on the frames they were building for others, or any other frame based on other frame designs or ideas? Again, I can find no use of the word stolen or theft by any of the parties involved at the time.

It's also curious that there was a version of the Rockhopper frame in '98 that featured a Ritchey tubeset, with all the appropriate decals indicating such. So the "bad blood" must not have been so bad.

And of course, if you have two employees that have left your company to start their own competing business, you better believe you're going to challenge that situation as strongly as possible. (In the end, they did win although damages were only a dollar). We don't know what their employment contract looked like but there are generally non-compete clauses for some employees.

Edit: I need to point out that I'm definitely not defending Mike Sinyard or any or his lawyers or cronies. I'm never him and he could indeed be the biggest *sshole I've ever met. Or, he could turn out to be a really nice guy - I don't actually know. What I'm saying is that the business practices you're all complaining about are very common and understandable, and if you were trying to build your own global bicycle empire, you'd probably approach things much the same way.

plonz 

^ Bicycling magazine did a good article on Mike Sinyard a few years ago. You should read it if you haven't already. I came away thinking he's probably not a guy I want to directly work for but respect his drive and intensity. Lots of boutique players with great products but IMO it takes a force like Sinyard to make a dynasty the likes of Specialized.

Specialized Bikes | Bicycling

ridelikeaturtle

I've got a '96 Amp Research B4 that I think will be a "vintage classic" (if it's not already!)

What I'm looking at right now are Bianchi mountain bikes from the mid to late 00's, full suspension bikes that were sold only in Europe, like the Bianchi CAAL 8400. These seem quite rare, as Bianchi aren't known for mountain bikes... but to me, the "cool factor" could be quite high, especially for someone (like me) who has a love for celeste.

kunsunoke 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...page&q&f=false
Chris Kostman's Rough Riders Blog: Any Bike, Anywhere / Classic Cyclist: Tom Ritchey, In His Own Words

CK: Do you have any comments regarding the Wikipedia page about the Specialized Stumpjumper?

TR: I just read what it says about the Stumpjumper on Wikipedia and it's definitely different from what I know and what I think is correct. Wikipedia says "Early Stumpjumpers had welded steel frames because the lugged and brazed frames that designer Tim Neenan wanted to use were not available at the time." That is not what I recall and there are images of that original Stumpjumper showing that it was lugged. This Wikipedia page also doesn't reference the couple of bikes that (Specialized founder) Mike Sinyard bought from us, which Gary (Fisher) sold of mine, and it doesn't really reference that I made the custom bikes originally "marketed" by Gary and Charlie (Kelly).

The word "marketed" is not an accurate word in this case, since I built the bikes; we didn't just "market" somebody else's bikes. Also, it is kind of silly for Wikipedia to reference Specialized as having made the first "production" run of mountain bikes, when I had already made over 500 bikes at that time. (In 1980, I built over 400 bikes which were sold through Gary and Charlie's operation in Fairfax. I built between 400 and 500 bikes in the subsequent years, 1982, 1983, and 1984, and beyond. I was able to maintain a clip of between 400 and 500 bikes a year in those early 80s.)

If none of that is true, why hasn't Sinyard sued Ritchey for defamation?

Tom Ritchey doesn't have to. Everyone knows what happened. Sinyard knows what happened, too.

That's probably why Tom Ritchey or Gary Fisher didn't sue. Those guys weren't quite as ruthless as Sinyard, though. They probably never expected Sinyard to buddy-**** them.

Fact 1 - Charlie Kelley and Gary Fisher designed the bikes
Fact 2 - Tom Ritchey was builder
Fact 3 - Sinyard bought frames from Ritchey, then took them to Japan (world-class copiers) for duplication. This was done without input from Ritchey, Fisher or Kelley.

Ritchey and Tange had tubesets available from about 1990 onward - yet if you look at Specialized bikes from that period they didn't have Ritchey branded anything. By contrast, Grant Petersen-era Bridgestones were all about Tom Ritchey's technology.

Do you really think a bike being spec-ed out with Ritchey tubing is concrete proof that there was no strain in the relationship between those guys?

Sinyard sued for a hell of a lot more than just the non-compete, and everything except for that one claim was thrown out. The lawsuit was correctly identified as vexatious (as most of Sinyard-initiated legal actions are). The court awarded a laughable amount of damages for a reason. It was essentially saying to Sinyard "don't waste our time again."

Your opinion, but I haven't seen other cycling companies launching punitive and destructive legal actions the way that Specialized does. They make some nice bikes, though. I have one of their early '90s Stumpjumpers and it's superb in build quality, stability, handling, etc. - which it had better be, considering how many ideas Specialized lifted from others.

Jeff Neese

Except the 1998 Specialized Rockhopper. It was the last steel Rockhopper, and featured a special frameset made out of "Ritchey Nitanium" instead of their time-worn "Direct Drive" chromoly tubeset. Anyone remember that? They were silver/pewter color. Nobody knew exactly what Nitanium was, but it sounded very cool. They also used Ritchey wheels, on that year Rockhopper only.

Loose Chain

I was given a Bridgestone MTB4 from circa 1988. The frame is clean and nice, in fact everything is except the wheels do not match and the rear dropout spacing is 130MM!

What rims would you suggest for this bike? The rear hub seems to turn a little rough, it is a Shimano 7 speed hub (130MM). I assume the bearings can be replaced/repaired?

The hub is fine looking, the sprockets very little wear, hardly any. In fact, the bike is not ridden much other than the mismatched wheels and rough turning rear hub.

I like this little bike, I want to fix it but not spend a ton for a casual knock about, airport bike, maybe sometime gravel grinder for rougher trails than my Surly CC likes.

J

Roger M

Novara(rei) sold some decent bikes. I have a Novara labeled frame that's is basically a Diamondback Ridgerunner. SR made some nice mtbs during the eighties, and Ross did as well.

frantik

love that color! just picked up a TT-Lite Apex today.. definitely some of the nicest steel out there. Diamondback is a major sleeper brand, mostly because they have a full range of bikes from entry model to top of the line. most people are familiar with thier lower offerings and don't realize that they had top end models.. knowing how to spot them can lead to some great values

brownplus

Ya know, I have "had them all" in the mass production mtb range (except norco dammit!) And even though steel reigned supreme in every case, I actually sold all my vintage mTb's but this one....just so comfy, light, and when bought at $100 complete...couldn't ask for a sweeter singlespeed. Yes, still have the breezer jet stream for graveling and the soma 650b for heavy duty....but really, would sell those too and keep this one if it came down to it.

it is NOT stiff! Diamondback WCF vertex

sovende

Lots of big names being dropped out there and I'm sure that most were/are fine bikes. However, I'm the kind of guy that lives on the edge (so not to take up too much space) and I'm going to toss my 1986 NashBar Terra XT into the mix.

Near as I can tell, pretty much a clone of the StumpJumper. It lacks a few of the features of the brand-named "DNA" donors like low flange hubs and Quick Release wheels (bonus tho since my wheels are harder to steal ). I have swapped out a couple of components but it's mostly stock. I paid $50 for mine back in the mid-90s. Not even thinking of selling but would have to have offers of at least $150-$200 to even consider it. (That alone may guarantee it stays mine ). I'm cool with that tho since it's a great "beater" bike!

OldsCOOL

1984 Univega Alpina Uno

StarBiker

Ancient thread, anyway since I pulled this recently why not. Tubes and tires and new pads this week. I will have about $90 in it total.
(Always have to add consumables)