sebasbike

Hey all!

Finally got my hands an an ea bare knuckle.

Was hopping to get some help regarding components.

Dont know what headset or bottom bracket to get ( i have a new pair of Sugino 75 cranks waiting to be opened), i've been told that i should get the Sugino 75 bb but i don't know if its worth spending 120+ on something that might not be necessary. (also been told it should be 109mm).

should i just sell the Sugino 75 and buy a new Andel crankset ??

thanks for the help!

TejanoTrackie 

You’ve bought a really nice frameset, so I can’t see replacing equally nice Sugino 75 cranks with Andel. You can save some money by getting the Tange BB instead of the Sugino.

https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/pro...0?category=724

Broctoon

Congrats on the nice frame! What color did you get?


If you already have a Sugino 75 crank, I would not trade down to an Andel. The Andel is decent, but it's not as nice as yours. You don't need to spend the big bucks for a Sugino bottom bracket. Just be sure to get one with 109mm spindle and ISO taper. This is important. Unfortunately, ISO ones are less common than JIS, so you might have to do a little searching. [Edit... Just noticed Tejano posted a link to one] Unlike most other Japanese cranks, the Sugino requires ISO. Even though it's from Japan, it has an Italian sounding name and the same taper as most Italian cranks.


I believe your bike uses a standard 1-1/8" external cup threadless headset. There are tons of good options available. It's not one of the newfangled zero stack/integrated standards, so don't let the information about those confuse you. If you're new to assembling a bike, this would be a good thing for you to get help with, from a bike shop or co-op. Chris King headsets are top quality and very popular. I personally don't care for them because they're very expensive, and they say KING all over them--I like a more subtle appearance. You should get what appeals to YOU. Phil Wood makes one that's just as pricey and also top quality, but with a very elegant appearance. There are less expensive models from Cane Creek and others that are nearly as good--this is what I would go with if it were my bike and my money.

sebasbike

Great, thanks for the excepcional reply.

There's a a CK headset on ebay for around 50+ shipping. I think I'm just going to go for an fsa one, with the proper specs. Maybe further down the line i could get a Phil wood one but for now I'm just going to go on the cheap.

Was going to buy a Paul components laced to tb14 holes son on ebay. Sold for 280, i was busy so I didn't pull the trigger.

sebasbike

i got in that light green on ebay,....i just wanted to get one i dont really care for the color lol ...

IAmSam

Once upon a time - before Sugino began making a sealed bottom bracket for the 75 and wanting to steer customers to it announced that the 75's taper is proprietary, not ISO...the sealed Protype was the BB of choice here if you didn't want loose balls


https://www.benscycle.com/protype-ca...liRqZHs087NGJY

https://www.suginoltd.co.jp/us/info/20160206001.html

Broctoon

So you missed that one, but if you end up getting a Paul rear hub, be aware they don't have the standard 42mm chain line. I think they are 44mm. With that hub, you could go up to a 111mm BB spindle.

sebasbike

Thanks for the heads up , i guess ill just go for the next i can find. i could still use spacers tho right ?

sebasbike

Have any-experience with the prototype? as far as ive read, everyone tells me to just get a sugino 75bb to not damage my cranks,

TejanoTrackie 

I have both the ProType and the Tange-Seiki LN-7922 ISO 109mm bottom brackets on two different bikes with the Sugino 75 cranks, and have never had any problems with them. Both were tightened to 30 ft-lbs (41 nm). From what I've heard, you are less likely to encounter problems with the Tange BB than the ProType. If you want to be 100% safe, just pony up the extra moolah to get the Sugino BB.

Broctoon

Yes, usually it’s not hard to move the whole BB over to the right a little, with shims. I’ve done this on one bike. Your crank will no longer be perfectly centered in the frame, but a couple millimeters will not make a bit of difference for most people.

You can also move your cog over on the hub with the same shims, when you need to increase the chain line dimension to match a crank that’s too wide, if that makes sense. I’ve found that on some hubs, even though this is theoretically possible, there are not enough threads to do it safely. I mean, it might be possible to fit one millimeter or less of shim in there, but that’s kind of pointless.

Your best bet is to get the 109mm BB that’s called for, and when you have the whole thing together, check the cog/chainring alignment. Chances are, it will be within a millimeter or two, and that’s close enough.

veganbikes

Here is what I tell people buy what you want right now and don't buy doubles down the line. Compromises are costly if you bought a nice frame, which you did, put the nice parts you want on it. Saving money here and there doesn't end up with anything but wanting the parts you wanted.

The Sugino 75 bottom bracket is designed for the Sugino 75 cranks yes technically people have had success with ISO stuff like the Tange-Seiki or Phil Wood but they do recommend using the proper B.B. and with a crank that nice I would probably stick to one of theirs.

Broctoon

Amen. This is very sound advice. Although it sort of goes against some of what I said above, I have to agree there's a lot of wisdom here.

sebasbike

i checked and the sugino bb sealed cartridge is 111mm when i read that i should get a 109mm , wont this be difficult to get a good chain line or am i wrong?

Lazyass

I ordered a new wheelset last week from Pro Wheel Builder with Paul hubs. They're on backorder for a few weeks. Am I going to have an chainline issue? This is the first I've heard about this. I'm running Wabi Pro (Andel Deluxe) cranks if it matters.

Broctoon

I don't know why Paul chose to do their own thing, when practically everyone else is on the same page with 42mm.

It shouldn't be a big issue. Some bikes run just fine with a chainline that's off by 2-3mm. I'd wait until the wheel arrives, install it, and see how things line up. In spite of the weird dimension, Paul hubs are very nice, and I wouldn't hesitate to ride one.

Broctoon

I just checked, and at least one source* says the Sugino 75 crank needs a BB of 109-111. So you're still within the acceptable range. Heck, it might turn out that the slightly longer spindle works better for you.

If the one you're looking at is made by Sugino and specified for their 75 crank, you can be sure it will work well. The only issue some people have is with chain stay clearance on some combinations of frame and crank (with SRAM Omnium most often). I don't believe there are any problems with running a 75 on a Bareknuckle.

* This is from Retrogression, which has about the most reliable SS/FG information you're likely to find on the interwebz.

sebasbike

thanks dude youre the man!!

REDMASTA

i run the sugino 75 cartridge bb with my sugino 75 cranks. buy once, cry once, no issues, good chain line.

will say i wasn't a fan of whatever the white crap is they put on the cup threads (teflon tape?). made it difficult to thread bb into the frame and basically just peeled off in the process and made a huge mess. I removed the bb, cleaned everything thoroughly and used phil grease like usual and everything went smoothly.

sebasbike

Buy once cry once , going to write that one down for later lol. Screw it buying it on retrogression. Don't know if I should go for the 109 or the 111 sealed tho

Broctoon

They have both in stock? Flip a coin. Probably either one will work fine. Of course you could call and ask what they recommend. Scrod, who owns the place, rides a Bareknuckle.

veganbikes

Thanks. Having been down that road many times I say just get what you want and worry about the money later.

Chainline doesn't really matter. People over obsess about it. I really don't care or notice to measure. I have used the Park Tool Chainline device twice now because we did have an issue on an e-bike in a bad batch of frames but this was for a warranty and we noticed an issue and saw it was way way way way way off and that tool is probably not common anymore (I don't think Park sells it). A millimeter here or there won't do diddly squat unless maybe you have an overly slack chain and really cheap parts but probably not then. If I was racing professionally say at the Olympics then maybe I would care a bit more but only because I was trying to eek out every last gain I could because at the Olympics the UCI rules don't apply and it gets dumb. Japanese Keirin has it right everything is pretty standard and close to the same so no real huge advantages it is about the rider not so much the technology.

However I am not a professional and neither is anyone here so that couple millimeters to run a kick ass hub or sealed bearing BB or whatever f ing component you want to run is not a problem. I mean use your fingies and try to measure a millimeter or two, so tiny. There are people who drive H2 Hummers with wang dang doodlers that are longer.

Ride your bike, worry less, get good components and enjoy life.

Edit: Sealed bearings unless you are on the tarck all the time and take really good care of the bike. You won't notice a huge difference unless maybe going super ceramic or something but even then sealed is what I would do for a bike I am riding often in a non-race environ.

sebasbike

Thanks for the help dudes. just wanted to show the finishing result. she rides like a dream. checked out scrods bike and really liked the all black components so kind of went for that except the sugino 75s that i got at a shop in south florida for very cheap sealed in box.

Rage

That came out nice!

ceelint

I have the Protype for my 75s and the chain line is off about 3mm... I know everyone will say that's not much.. but it was enough to make riding unenjoyable... So much noise and rubbing/grinding in the drivetrain...not sure if I got a bad one, but the spindle was not symmetrical. Longer on the drive side