stephr1

I am always looking for insight, advice and suggestions from those who know more specifically, or just more, than I do So, thanks in advance....Here's the situation:

I have, what seems to be, a problem that showed up recently. I haven't done a thorough investigation but I do have a couple of ideas of what might be causing it (Hope to get more detailed in the next day or 2). What I know so far -

1. I'm getting a tick-tick which could also be a click-click sound from the drivetrain. Not constant but very consistent.
2. It appears to be coming from the chainring area and seems to be sync'ed with the right crank reaching, or nearing, the low point
3. The sound seems to be prominent in 5-7 cogs (7-speed cassette). It could also be occurring in the 2-4 cogs (don't use No. 1 cog much at all) but it may not be loud enough to hear.
4. The sound seems to be noticeable when I'm accelerating (or pedalling harder to go up a hill or over a bridge). If I'm cruising and casually pedaling, the sound isn't obvious.
5. Chainrings and chain are fairly new. Rear cassette is "newish" but still in reasonably good condition.
6. Lubed the chain yesterday and sounds were still happening on my ride this morning.

Thanks in advance for any help on this....cheers....

squirtdad

Check your to see if your chain rings are tight for a starter

daverup 

I've had a similar thing happening recently, I think mine is a pedal bearing.

BHG6

Check the angle the front derailleur - if it got knocked out of position it could be just barely coming in contact with the chain as you put pressure on the crank. Happened to me the other day and it turned out to be nothing more than a slightly lose bolt

delbiker1 

Do you wear shoes with laces? I tracked that one down a while ago.

Rolla

These noises are always frustrating.

The old mechanic's adage, "Look at the last thing you did to it" might apply here. Some also say, "Wait until it gets bad enough that you can identify it."

I'd just be methodical about it: Replace the pedals with others and see if it goes away. Check chainring bolts. Check crank arm bolts. Check bottom bracket cups.

But don't dismiss that it could be something completely unrelated to the drive train, like stem, handlebar, saddle, or seatpost. Noises travel, and they always seem to go towards the bottom.

Also, check silly things like cleats, laces, tool bag, and water bottle bosses. Most of us have stories about disassembling an entire bike only to find the noise was in a frame pump.

stephr1

Thanks for all the responses. My plan is to take a closer look at (and resolve) this today.

This is a low end Specialized MTB so it uses lower end Shimano components fwiw...

1. The chainring was not something I had thought of. In the past the chainrings were a riveted set (told you it was low end However, this most recent replacement does allow chainrings to be replaced so that sounds good.

2. Pedal bearings...have had the pedals for a while but it doesn't feel like that. Worth checking out anyway.

3. Front der rubbing...first thing I thought of given that it only seems to happen in the upper cogs (tho, the sound doesn't make sense). On the list.

4. Shoe laces...yes, my shoes have laces but they don't feel like they've gotten caught in anything (no signs of being ripped up or any parts missing) and I always tie them so that they're shortest on the chainring side of the shoe. However, if something did come off and get caught in the chainring, it could easily be the source of the problem.

5. Bottom bracket - My previous bottom bracket started to wear out on me and that just showed up as a side-to-side looseness in the crank rotation. However, if something internal messed up (like a ball bearing shattering or some such, that might make sense) and I would expect it would be likely to happen no matter which way the crank rotated. Easy to check out.

6. Unrelated to the drive train...yeah, that's a possibility given sounds travel pretty easily thru metal. But this doesn't have that "feel". Worth checking out anyway.

7. The only thing I did recently was to replace the right-side (7-speed) shifter. This noise doesn't seem to be related to that. It seems very closely tied to the rotation/position of the cranks. If it was something to do with the rear der and related parts, I'd expect the pattern of the noise to seem much more "random" than it is. It's on the list anyways

8. Since it's a mtb, about a 1/4 to 1/3 of my rides are on dirt/gravel. I was thinking it's possible a rock may have been kicked up into the chainrings and bent one of the teeth or got lodged between chainrings. That should be a quick look/test.

Appreciate all the feedback, especially from @squirtdad since he's almost a neighbor I'll post back as soon as I figure it out (my next ride is tomorrow/Wed. morning). I'm expecting (hoping?) it's something simple, straightforward and easily fixed. Cheers....

GhostRider62

It is your right cleat. Check the screws

partyanimal

In my experience it's usually the pedals.
But when someone mentioned your laces, I don't think they meant them getting caught or hitting anything. I've seen it where the plastic end on my laces are just literally bouncing off my shoe and making a clicking noise and it drives me nuts. Try just tucking them into the shoe so they don't move around.

stephr1

OK. Did a more thorough check of things this morning. Here are my results:

1. Laces - I would know the difference between plastic/metal and metal/metal. This is definitely more metal/metal.
2. Don't use cleats so no way those are loose
3. Front der did not seem to be an issue. I did a minor adjustment, however, to ensure that.
4. Bottom bracket - firm and no detectable side movement of cranks.
5. Pedals - Also fairly tight and no obvious binding of the bearing.
6. Chainring - screws appear to be tight and true (parallel to other chainrings), no play in the chainring that I use. No rocks embedded between chainrings. Teeth show a bit of wear and tear but not enough to be considered a source of this problem.

However, since I'm on the subject of chainring....as I was working in that area this morning I remember dealing with a similar but a bit quieter problem a year or 2 back. It turned out to be that the chain was "sticking" to the chainring as it came off the bottom of the chainring and headed to the rear der/cogs. I use White Lightning Dry and a build up of it in one small area of the chainring seemed to be the source of the problem.

So, I went around the chainring a few times and noticed there was some build up but nowhere near as much as there was last time. I cleaned it (and the cogs and the idler/jockey wheels of the rear dir, just in case).

Nothing else seemed obvious to me so I'll either try a test ride this afternoon or not worry about it until my ride tomorrow morning.

Again, appreciate the help. Welcome to hear any or ideas people might come up with.

RoCou

Eliminate other potentials:
- Seat/seat post: Make sure you can produce the noise when standing up. If you can't, you've found the problem area,
- Stem/bars/front end: Same deal. Let go of the bars, and try to produce the noise.
- Pedals/shoes: borrow another set from someone - change the pedals *and* the shoes. See if the problem still persists.

If you still have it after those 3 steps, you are down to the BB and the crankset.

Crankycrank

Eliminate any seat/seatpost possibilities by putting a thin coat of grease on all the contact points between the seat rails, saddle clamp and clamp to the seatpost. Also check that the post is greased and seat tube clamp is tight.

stephr1

OK. Did some minor adjustments and more investigation yesterday, but no success. I usually do a longer ride on Wed. but because the noise was still there, I kept to a shorter ride and focused more on listening and looking to try get a better idea of what might be going on. Didn't find out much more than I knew yesterday

What I did figure out:

1. It is not specifically tied to any one chainring. I usually ride on the middle chainring, so this morning I switched to the large chainring and the sound was still there with the same symptoms of the middle chainring.

2. It really seems as if the sound is reverberating (sort of) thru the frame. Tough to find an exact location source tho while trying to keep from getting hit by cars or running into something. And related to this is that it has the definite sound of metal on metal, almost like tapping the end of a screwdriver on the frame or the crank hitting the sidestand (which I did do a bit of remounting on not too long ago).

Even standing still it's hard to do a good exam of the chainrings/cranks/etc. So my plan today is to remove that part of the bike and take a closer look to see if there are any signs of metal hitting metal somewhere. It will also provide better access to ensure the chainrings are tight (while this doesn't seem likely, it's something I can take off the list and get a closer look at the bottom bracket.

I'll also follow up with the other suggestions provided.

Maybe I should lift up the seat and roll a new bike underneath it

Be back to update soon...thx and cheers....

AndrewJB

I'll throw another option in the mix...
I had as noise like this once. Turned out to be the tube stem clicking in the rim.
Put a small rubber o-ring on the tube stem with the stem nut (that most throw away) and no more noise.

stephr1

Appreciate the suggestion but my tube stem is rubber, except for the tip (Schrader valve) and it seems fairly firm in place. Also, it didn't fit the rhythm of the noise (However, what's that old programmer's saying? "Variables do and constants aren't."

stephr1

OK. Think I solved it. @Rolla kind of was on target (but not in a way I would have expected) when he(?) wrote "Look at the last thing you did to it". The last thing I did was to replace the rear der shifter (return spring broke on the old one Given the symptoms, tho, it didn't make sense that it would be the cause of the problem....but it was "in the mix".

I never took off the chainrings/cranks but rather turned the bike upside and watched the chainring rotation. What I saw was that the chain was not seating immediately into the chainring at the point of rotation I mentioned above. I could see when the chain dropped into place and it certainly made the kind of noise I had been hearing (i.e. metal on metal). I examined the chainring more closely but saw no warpage, or missing or bent teeth. So I followed the chain back to the cassette and discovered it was causing the chain to not immediately settle onto the chainring when it hit the chainring. Why that was sync'ed with the crank and not with the rotation of the cassette is odd to consider, but that's the way it was.

When I 1st replaced the shifter, I went thru the adjustment process. It never quite settled in how I would have expected so I played with it while I rode. Then I believe at the end of the ride right before I noticed the ticking, I did a bad thing and made "1 last adjustment" after I finished the ride and never tested it expecting it would now be fine on the next ride. Apparently I made it worse (D'oh!

As I looked closer at the jockey wheel and how it aligned with the cassette, it was definitely too far one way and that's what seemed to be causing the chain not to settle like it should. I know there is a range considered the "sweet spot" for shifting (since this is a 7-speed and has a wider chain, that sweet spot is wider) and I must have adjusted from one end of the sweet spot over to, and passed, the other end.

I did a short test ride and it seems like I fixed it. I'll know for sure on my next ride on Fri.

Thanks again to all who helped. Assuming it is now solved, while I didn't get any specific "correct" answer, all the responses helped me to look at the problem just a bit differently, and that was the best help I could get. Much appreciated. And no new parts to have to order

stephr1

Just wanted to follow up on this because I'm still a bit unclear why the symptoms of a bad rear der adjustment would be synchronized with the rotation of the cranks. Logic (and I am an engineer tells me if it's tied to crank rotation, then it should most likely be a problem closely tied with the crank/chainrings.

If the chain comes off the cassette misaligned then when the chain hits the chainring it could (tho, not always) also be misaligned. And a downstroke, which tends to be the stronger part of the stroke cycle, especially when accelerating or making some kind of ascent, would certainly expose the problem. That makes the most sense. But it appeared to happen *only* at/near the bottom of a downstroke on the right crank. So, why not the same thing on the left crank? That kind of screws with the logic one would expect.

The only thing I can think of that makes sense at this point is that the "hyperglide" feature of Shimano cassttes (and chainrings?) is somewhat rotationally oriented. The effort for better shifting happens as a result of a design that's repetitive around the cog and/or the chainring. Since I have a square taper mount for my cranks, it's possible that if they were mounted a 1/4 turn one way or the other (or if I was using "Octalink"), the problem may have shown up with different symptoms or I may never have noticed the problem at all (which may not have been a good thing

If anyone else has any thoughts on this (like you all have nothing else going on in your lives I'd be interested to hear them.

Otherwise...to the moderator, consider this solved. Thx.

Thanks and cheers....

squirtdad

heres a theory for you as to why: Depending on the crankset if it is all all modern, when you look at the chainrings you will see bulges, ramps and other stuff (sorry best technical terms I have) these are designed to help shifting. It could be that the slight mis alignment was enough to partial engage but not enough to shift. This would point to why it is crank side only

stephr1

I think we are saying the same thing. I may have used the term "Hyperglide" incorrectly. What you state is exactly what I was thinking.

Once again, great Bay Area minds think alike

Cheers...

squirtdad

beers at hapas soon ?

oldbobcat

Is the noise in synch with your cadence or is it something else?

stephr1

I mentioned above but, yeah, mostly, and that was what was confusing me. The noise happened at/near the bottom of the down stroke for the right crank (or I suppose one could say it was also at/near the top of the up stroke on the left crank) most of the time if I was accelerating or trying to go up and over a bridge. If I was in a "coasting" mode where I wasn't having to pedal very hard, the noise may, or may not, happen.

I believe I may have solved this, but will know for sure on my ride tomorrow.


Cheers.....

oldbobcat

I was going to suggest that sometimes it's a crank hitting the end of the derailleur cable. And sometimes it's the drive side crank hitting a slightly out of adjustment front derailleur cage.

stephr1

I appreciate that. I also thought it might have been the side stand but the left crank was in the wrong position when I heard the noise. I checked clearance on both cranks and there seemed to be nothing for them to hit. I also have a pump mounted right above the bottom bracket and it wasn't in the path either. I checked for noise due to the chain hitting the guide on the front der, even misadjusted it just to hear what that sounded like, and it wasn't the noise I was hearing.

At this point I'm fairly certain it was my error when I attempted to adjust the rear der cable without a short test ride. Like I said, I'll know for sure in about 12 hours |^)

stephr1

Arrrrrrgggghhhhhh!! I guess Murphy's Corollary is correct: " The shortest distance between 2 points is very rarely a straight line."

More detective work required.....

Here's what I confirmed on my ride this morning....

1. The noise is very crank/stroke position-dependent (at or near bottom of stroke on right crank *only*). I tried using my left side for the power stroke (letting my right leg sort of "cruise" along as my left leg did all the work) and no noise.

2. I had stated it seemed to happen in the upper cogs (5-7) only but I believe it is also happening in the lower ones. Because I upshift quickly and spend most of my time in the upper gears the noise isn't anywhere near as noticeable in the lower gears. I tested this out and could hear the noise, tho very subtle.

3. It still seems to happen when the chain is taut (going up hills, accelerating, etc.). If I'm going down hill or at cruising speed and not pedaling hard, the noise either goes away or isn't obvious at all.

So, over the next few days I plan to experiment (not in any particular order): Different chain (new), Rotate (if I can) the cranks a 1/4 turn. Pull the cranks/chainrings off and check the bottom bracket for any issues.

I still believe No. 3 may be the key to this, but not necessarily due to the chain. It's kind of tough to repeat the symptoms when the bike is on its stand in my garage, so that makes this even more challenging

Back to my investigation...