robertj298 

Don't have to worry because I'm done posting here

ehcoplex 

Utility trailers are pretty widely used in Europe. Its kind of amazing (and ridiculous, really) that the towing capacity of the exact same model of compact car is rated at about half in the US what it is in Europe, Canada, etc (if it is even 'rated' to pull a trailer in the US).... Alas, it's the 'American Way™'- ovens sized to accommodate a 35lb turkey once a year, refrigerators so large stuff gets lost in them for years, and the vehicles...... Where I live, every other vehicle is a massive, shiny pickup truck that looks like it's never carried a sheet of plywood or, really, much of anything ever!

cb400bill

I'd say that this is a bit of an overreaction.

BFisher

If one has been hanging out here for three years and has no idea that:

A. The thread title could ruffle feathers, and
B. There might be some great French bikes,

then it's hard to imagine much learning has taken place.

This is a welcoming group that has shared immeasurable information over and over again for years. I've learned a lot here and mostly never even had to ask. I just looked up what I wanted to understand. Boom. Easy.

thook

yeah, i don't know how to explain that. i have two '98 crv's. my wife's has a hitch, but it's very small and the most you could safely pull would be a little trailer that wouldn't do nearly what i need it to do. my crv doesn't even have provisions for a hitch, though. i'd have to modify the subframe for one. even then, with either car, the suspension is just not built for much weight. damage starts happening, otherwise. and, the little 4 cyl engines can't do much, either
where i live, a truck is a common and necessary vehicle. and, usually they look like they're very well used....lol

scarlson 

It's true. I think the towing issue is related to legitimate liability concerns on the part of carmakers, related to the towing laws in different countries.
First the physics: with a light tow vehicle, speeds must be reduced to avoid trailer sway. Sway sounds benign, but it can get out of hand fast and turn into trailer whip, which can quickly lead to a rollover crash. Adding tongue weight can mitigate this, but if your load shifts around or if you catch a strong crosswind, there isn't much you can do if you're rolling at high speed.
In the UK, it's the law that cars towing trailers can't go faster than 60mph. In most parts of continental Europe, trailers are limited to 80-100kph. In British Columbia, it's 80kph for all trailers. The 100kph limit seems sensible. I've towed ~1500lb trailers with my SAAB 900, and it gets fairly squirrely around 65mph! I do not like it! But with a heavy tow vehicle, such as a pickup, you can get away with more. I had a government job one summer that put me in a full size Silverado pickup with a trailer. I could bomb around at 70mph or whatever the posted speed limit was and not have a problem. That truck was planted and safe at 70mph with the medium trailer I used, even in corners and crosswinds.

In the USA, such trailer speed laws do not exist (except possibly in California?). The speed limit's the speed limit as far as I know. And the freeway speed limit is often quite high!
Bottom line: different laws lead to different strategies to avoid liability on the part of car manufacturers and accessories dealers.

Sorry for the Off Topic. I felt I had to answer this, because once upon a time, I wondered the same thing you did about Europe vs. US attitudes toward trailering. It was only when installing the old SAAB trailer hitch and preparing to tow some trailers that I did the research and truly figured it out.

I did the trailer research because I don't do anything halfway. Especially not French bikes.

thook

the only speed limit distinctions made that i'm aware of across the US is on the interstates and only between passenger/utility vehicles and tractor trailers. even then, it's only a 5mph difference (not quite enough, imho) whether it's 60-65 or 70-75mph. even then, it's often not followed that i see much of the time.
if i'm pulling a trailer, it's always in excess of 1000lbs. i've had enough dodgy towing dynamics in the last few decades i stick to 50mph max on any highway or interstate. it is hard and dangerous to make an emergency stop with that much weight. on top of that, i avoid the interstate almost entirely. and, you're absolutely right!! trailer sway is freakin' scary. i've had it happen even with my load done proper. but, if i stay to my max speed, it never happens

thook

it's a meandering topic....lol

Velo Mule

I like French bikes and was prepared to defend the French bikes of the '70's that were so popular, however, I also realize that they continue to make excellent bikes and components now. Ok, they are pricer now compared to the value that they were in the '70's.

While I am not a Hambini fan, even though I posted a link to his video, the Look crank is innovative in so many ways. And Look was one of the original innovators of clipless pedals. I also like the classic Mafac brakes and any crank made by Stronglight just to cherry pick a few items.

In the late '70's I had an Astra brand 10 speed that my dad had bought for me in middle school. While it was low end, heavy, had plain steel tubing, a steel cottered crank and the textured steel rims, it was so much fun to ride. The distance that I could travel with this bike and the ride was amazing.

thook

sounds like a schwinn...lol

hambini? i'm gonna have to name one of my dogs that

3alarmer 

...in your defense (if such is possible at this point. )

Many of the original low end French production bicycle components of the 70's were, indeed, junk. And they are the first things I replace on one if I want to ride it with less concern for my personal safety. The old French aluminum alloy bars were notorious for sagging and breakage, and I have broken at least one of them myself, while riding. Which is pretty exciting, I can tell you.

The unfortunate Simplex Delrin plastic story has already been referenced. That one is a shame, because prior to that, Simplex had been one of the industry giants, in the development and production of derailleurs.

And a lot of those old French aluminum alloy stems from the late 60's and early 70's are best treated as recycling material. But overall, there's probably much more good than bad in the French bikes that remain in use. I think most of the really bad ones have died and gone to hell. They were pretty cheap to buy in the first place, and a lot of people no longer know how to work on them.


Both of these taken off a 70's PX-10

3alarmer 

^^^^
...I figure they ended up in hell, as the bikes given in the afterlife to people who like to ride high end Italian bikes, like me.

poprad

I hope not, this has been one of my favorite threads. Lots of fantastic pics, plenty of off topic rambles...your original post wasn't insulting or mean, just a poke that got everyone posting pics of their French awesomes.

If your thread results in this kind of content you're doing it right.

thook

so, are you saying italian are better than french bikes???

martl

Given the way many cities and villages are laid out around here, we used to build cars which are spacious *inside* and compact on the outside instead of the other way around. Also, parking spaces are built 5mx2,30 which is enough for the front axle section of an F150
Before everybody decided they were Bear Grylls and needed SUVs to navigate the urban jungle, compact Minivans were popular. I still miss my VW Touran, could haul 3 persons, 3 bikes and camping gear for 3 weeks on the footprint slightly smaller than a long Rabbit/Golf...

There are some pickups around, of course.

https://ruylclassics.nl/wp-content/u...9-2021/001.jpg





the recent version is quite popular because of its bang for the buck ratio, but many owners get a bit disillusioned when they learn the discount pricetag comes at the cost of build quality, not to mention a hefty fuel bill. We pay per liter what you guys pay per gallon

thook

how cool! i didn't know peugeot had made trucks, too
yeah, i suppose there's an aspect of america that's into excess about certain things. but, what you say about how things are laid out over there makes sense and i did suspect that as a factor in these cultural differences. otoh, you say "used to". does that mean things are not quite that way, anymore? are you saying people are going all bear grylls over there, too?
i had an '84 westfalia vanagon for a couple of years before i wrecked it. i certainly appreciated how minimal yet spacious it was. the 1.9L boxer engine in the rear really made that possible. now if it had only had a bit more power..lol! 88hp i think was all it had. it did not like steep hills or interstate speeds

Germany_chris

I've watched golfs pull horse trailers, and Tiguans (mine) pull two horse trailers (mine). The suspension, engine, and transmission are fine.

Germany_chris

The fake SUV thing is here also. There are far fewer station wagons and sedans and more cross overs even in my house (X3/Tiguan/116) and my wife wants to replace the Tiguan with an X1. Cross Overs don't have more space than a wagon and get worse mileage by quite a bit ~40 VW, ~35 X3 vs ~60 for the 1er.

Colorado Kid

If you don't like French bikes, please sell it on the list. There're many fans of the bikes.

thook

is it flat where you are? paved? how often was/is this done? manual or auto tranny?

Germany_chris

i live in Bavaria so it’s hilly and horse shows I generally in fields so paved and not. It’s a TDI with an automatic, I’ve been towing the horses around at least once a month since we bought the car in 2013.

sd5782 

In deference to the OP, availability and personal history play a big part especially here in small town NW Ohio. Growing up it was Schwinns and department store bikes mostly. We just never saw the foreign stuff except for an occasional British 3 speed. It was the same with our cars. VW made it in the later 60s and the Japanese did it pretty big in the 70s. Our small town Midwestern exposure to French cars was when they were associated with American Motors Corporation (AMC), and that wasn’t the cream of the crop. AMC didn’t do US built cars very good either.

It was obviously quite different on the coasts. Large population centers allow more brands, and I would guess the East coast had somewhat reasonable import costs from Europe. Indeed, there were probably more US citizens freshly “off the boat” that wanted a bike from their home country. In the same way, I’ve read that the Japanese established on the West coast most. We saw few of those here too in the early import era.

The OP has come into some very nice Japanese bikes considering our geographical location and the small numbers here. I’ve not been in this vintage hobby too many years, and one can watch adds daily for years and not come up with anything. Chicago, Detroit, Columbus would be different, and eventually some of those bikes filter to the smaller towns. After many years in the hobby, one makes contacts and gets more exposed, but generally we just muddle around and acquire something here and there and then get to experience that. I would bet the OP comes into a nice French bike sometime and I would welcome his observations as he sure seems to find some pristine stuff.

repechage

looks like the German national Government is pulling forward the date to stop selling ICE powered cars… at least electric have good torque.
the last new ICE engine may already have been developed.

52telecaster

I love this thread and I love motobecanes.

scarlson 

Right, I've towed in my little Saab and it's fine for me too. I don't think the differences in US and European towing specs are related to the running gear. It's about speed. Europe has trailer-specific speed limits, whereas the USA does not, so the automakers and accessory manufacturers change the specifications to avoid liability in the US.

Of course, if you can weld, you can attach a trailer hitch to anything you want. There's a guy in Vermont who has a hitch on his first-generation Honda Insight (1L engine). I doubt he can go faster than 45mph with a trailer attached to that car, so it's likely not a problem.