Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Wrenching yes; Touch up painting No

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Wrenching yes; Touch up painting No

Old 12-30-21, 01:19 PM
  #1  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,501

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 686 Times in 385 Posts
Wrenching yes; Touch up painting No

Kind of an addendum to the rider, wrencher, collector thread. I enjoy wrenching, but have little patience for the precise detail work needed for touching up paint on a nicer frame. That is above wrencher tinkerer and crosses into artistic. I am attempting it again now and am looking at it as a necessary step before I can grab wrenches and grease for the fun reassembly. I’ve seen beautiful work here which lets me know it can be done, but probably not by me. Oh well.
sd5782 is online now  
Likes For sd5782:
Old 12-30-21, 02:10 PM
  #2  
Chuck M 
Happy With My Bikes
 
Chuck M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,185

Bikes: Hi-Ten bike boomers, a Trek Domane and some projects

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 867 Post(s)
Liked 2,277 Times in 1,099 Posts
I picked up a pearl Raleigh Competition a couple of months ago that I thought was going to need some touchup. Pearl was going to be a pain I thought. After cleaning it up, I decided to leave it as is as it really wasn't that bad after all.

My next project is going to be a Gazelle money pit. I'm seriously thinking about doing the best Krylon multiple coats and wet sanding I can do because I may as well waste time as well as money.
__________________
"It is the unknown around the corner that turns my wheels." -- Heinz Stücke

Chuck M is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 02:18 PM
  #3  
xiaoman1 
Senior Member
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 5,152

Bikes: A few too many

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1359 Post(s)
Liked 2,173 Times in 1,178 Posts
An airbrush or touch-up paint guns are the best for metallics. There is little/no blotching of clear with metallics falling to the bottom of the area being touched up.


IMO, better for metallics....

Nice for touch-ups.
Best, Ben
__________________
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire

Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors



xiaoman1 is offline  
Likes For xiaoman1:
Old 12-30-21, 02:54 PM
  #4  
OTS 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bloomington/Normal IL
Posts: 1,123
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Liked 231 Times in 137 Posts
I agree that good touch up is really difficult.
It is not only finding a good color match, it's good prep and then meticulous application of said paint.
Way above my pay grade.
My hat is off to anybody that can do it well.
OTS is offline  
Likes For OTS:
Old 12-30-21, 03:14 PM
  #5  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,931

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26245 Post(s)
Liked 10,228 Times in 7,097 Posts
.
...besides what has already been said here, it often works out that even with a good color match, fading the touched up area into the area you are repairing is difficult. One workaround is to simply mask off the rest of the bike, with the exception of the frame member you're working on. For example, some bikes are OK except for the stays. So you can mask off the rest of the frame, and simply spray out the stays, after you prep the chips with sanding.

The other thing to learn is that it is pretty rare to find a paint color that is completely opaque, especially in the metallic colors. So you often need to figure out what the primer color is on a particular frame, and prime the area again in places where both the color and the primer are missing.

Rauler blue and Colnago blue are basically the same color coat paint, with a different primer under the blue.
__________________
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 12-30-21, 03:52 PM
  #6  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,501

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 686 Times in 385 Posts
Mine is not big areas, just numerous chips and small nicks from use since 1972 on this one. I am dabbing paint in the chipped areas and have some 800 and 1200 grit paper. It’s only original once, so trying to keep it stock looking. Good from 3 feet is my goal here. I see some before and after pics here and am amazed. I will try the polishing compound then. Will also do my first graphics and maybe clear coat. Give me a wrench instead please.
sd5782 is online now  
Likes For sd5782:
Old 12-30-21, 05:14 PM
  #7  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,931

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26245 Post(s)
Liked 10,228 Times in 7,097 Posts
.
...I'm so old and nearsighted, I don't see a lot of the smaller chips from 3 feet away any more.
Helps a lot. And some of the squeaks and rattles that used to bother me have stopped because I don't hear them.

But if a lot of chips are on one frame member, like a stay, it's almost always simpler to mask off and respray that one thing from end to end.
__________________
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 12-30-21, 05:58 PM
  #8  
bark_eater 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 2,149

Bikes: Road ready: 1993 Koga Miyata City Liner Touring Hybrid, 1989 Centurion Sport DLX, "I Blame GP" Bridgestone CB-1. Projects: Yea, I got a problem....

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 752 Post(s)
Liked 732 Times in 419 Posts
While I heard that red trucks don't rust, its black bikes that can truly hide a multitude of sins... and the most crude rust treatments and touch ups.
bark_eater is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 06:22 PM
  #9  
garryg
Full Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Campbell River BC
Posts: 459
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked 330 Times in 140 Posts
I often do touchups,rather poorly. I still find them an improvement.
garryg is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 06:23 PM
  #10  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,787

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 522 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3228 Post(s)
Liked 3,853 Times in 1,436 Posts
I'd also count myself among those who don't have the skill or patience for this, but I've had some surprisingly good results mixed in with some terrible results. My current project looks really good in the garage, but when I took it out to n the sunlight today the touched up spots made themselves quite visible.

I have definitely found that black and various shades of red are easier than most other colors.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 07:23 PM
  #11  
Chuck M 
Happy With My Bikes
 
Chuck M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,185

Bikes: Hi-Ten bike boomers, a Trek Domane and some projects

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 867 Post(s)
Liked 2,277 Times in 1,099 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
.
And some of the squeaks and rattles that used to bother me have stopped because I don't hear them.
I can't ride with my hearing aids as sweat shorts out the batteries. I had a noise on one of my bikes that because of my hearing, I couldn't decide was coming from the free hub or bottom bracket. I switched to Look compatible pedals a while back. Yesterday I couldn't hear it at all so either my hearing is worse or the noise was the SPD pedals and metal cleats. At any rate I sure enjoyed the ride without that noise.
__________________
"It is the unknown around the corner that turns my wheels." -- Heinz Stücke

Chuck M is offline  
Likes For Chuck M:
Old 12-30-21, 09:59 PM
  #12  
Doug Fattic 
framebuilder
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Niles, Michigan
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 610 Post(s)
Liked 1,905 Times in 647 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy_K
I'd also count myself among those who don't have the skill or patience for this, but I've had some surprisingly good results mixed in with some terrible results. My current project looks really good in the garage, but when I took it out to n the sunlight today the touched up spots made themselves quite visible.

I have definitely found that black and various shades of red are easier than most other colors.
One of the reasons is that the surface is not smooth around the repaired area. It isn't just about a color match. It is a bit of a complicated process but a good repair often requires smoothing out extra clear so that damaged area doesn't reflect light in a different way. That may involve extra coats of both color and clears requiring both sanding and polishing with compounds.
Doug Fattic is offline  
Old 12-30-21, 10:50 PM
  #13  
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,787

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 522 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3228 Post(s)
Liked 3,853 Times in 1,436 Posts
Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
One of the reasons is that the surface is not smooth around the repaired area. It isn't just about a color match. It is a bit of a complicated process but a good repair often requires smoothing out extra clear so that damaged area doesn't reflect light in a different way. That may involve extra coats of both color and clears requiring both sanding and polishing with compounds.
That makes sense. It's a metallic paint with a really deep look to it. In the sun, the patched spots look darker than the rest of the paint.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 12:05 AM
  #14  
icemilkcoffee 
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,587
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1538 Post(s)
Liked 1,696 Times in 953 Posts
Originally Posted by xiaoman1
An airbrush or touch-up paint guns are the best for metallics.
Yeah. I’ve been trying to use a paint brush to touch up the metallic blue paint on my Nishiki Aero II, and the results are horrendously bad because I can never get all the colors and metal flakes even. I think I have to learn to use spray gun. What air compressor do you need for that?
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 12:22 AM
  #15  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,931

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26245 Post(s)
Liked 10,228 Times in 7,097 Posts
An example I repaired last summer:






...the three main tubes of the frame, and the lugs were pretty much OK. The decals were not perfect, but acceptable.
There were a lot of little chips from chain slap on the chainstay, as well as some on both seat stays.

The fork was chrome, but it was starting to fail in many places, where you could see blooms of discoloration.

This was the final result, using a spray can of a metallic color custom mixed by the local Auto Paint store nearby, prepping those areas by sanding the stays smooth (and roughing he chrome fork), then priming and painting those while the rest of the bike frame was masked with tape and newsprint. I then did a final clear coat of Spraymax 2K urethane. This turned out better than I had hoped.
__________________
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 12-31-21, 03:51 AM
  #16  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,404
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 863 Post(s)
Liked 2,225 Times in 1,248 Posts
^^^ nice work. I will leave the painting for someone else. If I could get results like that I would be tempted but that is a skill I lack. I really don’t mind that some of my bikes are less than perfect and the chips don’t bother me much.
Kabuki12 is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 04:09 AM
  #17  
noobinsf 
Senior Member
 
noobinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,291

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times in 700 Posts
I’m with the OP on this one. I did a Rustoleum job this past year, and I revived an old faded paint job on another and covered it with clear varnish, but I don’t think I’ll do this again. I’ll either preserve the paint or get a good powder coat in the future. I just don’t have the patience, and the reward of riding the bike is still so far off once you get the frame to a good state. I’m happy I did all this once, but it’s really not my thing.
noobinsf is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 07:07 AM
  #18  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,501

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 686 Times in 385 Posts
Looks like I’m not alone. Good thing it’s winter and I am retired and have time as I am forcing myself to at least dabble a bit in this art. My largest damaged areas are perhaps 3x10cm. The 800 and 1200 sandpaper made a nice finish, but my color match is off. Looks like that first coat will be considered primer. The factory paint seems thick and tough which seems to help a bit.

I have done some crude touch ups before, but this is an attempt to up my skills a wee bit. That first coat as primer is good perhaps as this frame is chrome underneath. That may be why my color match was off too. I am also repairing a gray/silver sort of color which I’ve heard in the automotive world is hard to match. Nice winter chores I guess.
sd5782 is online now  
Old 12-31-21, 08:54 AM
  #19  
Doug Fattic 
framebuilder
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Niles, Michigan
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 610 Post(s)
Liked 1,905 Times in 647 Posts
Originally Posted by sd5782
Looks like I’m not alone. Good thing it’s winter and I am retired and have time as I am forcing myself to at least dabble a bit in this art. My largest damaged areas are perhaps 3x10cm. The 800 and 1200 sandpaper made a nice finish, but my color match is off. Looks like that first coat will be considered primer. The factory paint seems thick and tough which seems to help a bit.

I have done some crude touch ups before, but this is an attempt to up my skills a wee bit. That first coat as primer is good perhaps as this frame is chrome underneath. That may be why my color match was off too. I am also repairing a gray/silver sort of color which I’ve heard in the automotive world is hard to match. Nice winter chores I guess.
sd, here is an idea that might work for you and others sometimes. My friend Tom (a now recently retired UPS driver) brought by this Schwinn to me to be refreshed. He sanded the whole frame lightly but throughly with very fine sandpaper to prepare the surface for clear coats. He didn't even have me spray some touch up black in areas of missing paint. When I sprayed the new final clears for him, I added an additive that cuts polyurethane's gloss. I think the final result is decent. It now has an its old/its new look.

btw, I haven't forgotten our correspondence about your Super Sport frame. I have to show Tom painting procedures now that he has retired. You're welcome to come too for a day or two. Toledo is an easy drive away from Niles on the Indiana Toll Road. I've got 2 yellow Super Sport bicycles that I usually keep in my spray booth to be out of my way unless I am painting. They were given for me to sell with the understanding the proceeds go towards our Ukraine Bicycle Project. I'm thinking they should be repainted when the bikes are overhauled. I could use some help with that. My only fear is that you and Tom will start talking about working at UPS and that might make me want to punch out my eardrums.

I
an old Chicago Schwinn with a new clear coat
Doug Fattic is offline  
Likes For Doug Fattic:
Old 12-31-21, 10:19 AM
  #20  
xiaoman1 
Senior Member
 
xiaoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 5,152

Bikes: A few too many

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1359 Post(s)
Liked 2,173 Times in 1,178 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
Yeah. I’ve been trying to use a paint brush to touch up the metallic blue paint on my Nishiki Aero II, and the results are horrendously bad because I can never get all the colors and metal flakes even. I think I have to learn to use spray gun. What air compressor do you need for that?
IMC,
with the air brush, I use an olde tankless model for non metallic...I think its rated at 1/5hp. When shooting with metallic paint and a touch up gun I use my craftsmen with a 1.7 hp motor, The air pressure will vary depending on the consistency of the paint that you are using......When using a nail polish to touch up metallics the metallic particles will not rise/flow because the paint is too thick, the "guns" will give you a better flow-out and control. Practice on the pressure and mixture of the paint, I does take time to master the skill but touch up can be more than satisfactory.

A few tips:
Use a loose masking technique when painting.....meaning do not tape a hard line around the area being painted. I tear a ragged edge of paper and "lift it off of the surface of the frame and paint "over it towards the damaged area using light cotes.
You can also cut/tear a hole in an index card, hold it away from the frame and spray the paint through it. moving the card so that you do not have a hard edge...easier to blend.
Good luck, Ben
__________________
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire

Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors




Last edited by xiaoman1; 12-31-21 at 10:22 AM.
xiaoman1 is offline  
Likes For xiaoman1:
Old 12-31-21, 11:19 AM
  #21  
sd5782 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Toledo Ohio
Posts: 1,501

Bikes: 1964 Huffy Sportsman, 1972 Fuji Newest, 1973 Schwinn Super Sport (3), 1982 Trek 412, 1983 Trek 700, 1989 Miyata 1000LT, 1991 Bianchi Boardwalk, plus others

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 577 Post(s)
Liked 686 Times in 385 Posts
Thanks Doug

Originally Posted by Doug Fattic
sd, here is an idea that might work for you and others sometimes. My friend Tom (a now recently retired UPS driver) brought by this Schwinn to me to be refreshed. He sanded the whole frame lightly but throughly with very fine sandpaper to prepare the surface for clear coats. He didn't even have me spray some touch up black in areas of missing paint. When I sprayed the new final clears for him, I added an additive that cuts polyurethane's gloss. I think the final result is decent. It now has an its old/its new look.

btw, I haven't forgotten our correspondence about your Super Sport frame. I have to show Tom painting procedures now that he has retired. You're welcome to come too for a day or two. Toledo is an easy drive away from Niles on the Indiana Toll Road. I've got 2 yellow Super Sport bicycles that I usually keep in my spray booth to be out of my way unless I am painting. They were given for me to sell with the understanding the proceeds go towards our Ukraine Bicycle Project. I'm thinking they should be repainted when the bikes are overhauled. I could use some help with that. My only fear is that you and Tom will start talking about working at UPS and that might make me want to punch out my eardrums.

I
an old Chicago Schwinn with a new clear coat
Thanks for the offer, and I may take you up on. I wouldn’t ever have enough bikes to invest in spray equipment, but learning would be of great interest. That Schwinn in black is a seldom seen color, and I understand the patina look too. I’m off to buy some 1500 grit paper and a better match of Testors. This old Super Sport is way past touch up stage and was bought from my co-op for parts. Too small for me too.





Interestingly, the chrome parts on 72 this bike were fantastic and helped me complete a time capsule restoration on another 73. I joke with my wife that I could repair bikes for money in my retirement and make tens of dollars.
sd5782 is online now  
Old 12-31-21, 11:31 AM
  #22  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,931

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26245 Post(s)
Liked 10,228 Times in 7,097 Posts
Originally Posted by sd5782
Looks like I’m not alone. Good thing it’s winter and I am retired and have time as I am forcing myself to at least dabble a bit in this art. My largest damaged areas are perhaps 3x10cm. The 800 and 1200 sandpaper made a nice finish, but my color match is off. Looks like that first coat will be considered primer. The factory paint seems thick and tough which seems to help a bit.

I have done some crude touch ups before, but this is an attempt to up my skills a wee bit. That first coat as primer is good perhaps as this frame is chrome underneath. That may be why my color match was off too. I am also repairing a gray/silver sort of color which I’ve heard in the automotive world is hard to match. Nice winter chores I guess.
...there are a boatload of variations on metallic silver. Not only the color and value will vary, but the flake itself is all over the map. I just stripped and painted an entire frame last summer, that was not that bad, and had good decals still, just because I didn't want to fiddle around with matching the silver paint on it.

OTOH, think how much you will learn.
__________________
3alarmer is online now  
Likes For 3alarmer:
Old 12-31-21, 12:05 PM
  #23  
Doug Fattic 
framebuilder
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Niles, Michigan
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 610 Post(s)
Liked 1,905 Times in 647 Posts
Originally Posted by sd5782
Thanks for the offer, and I may take you up on. I wouldn’t ever have enough bikes to invest in spray equipment, but learning would be of great interest.
The principles of painting are the same whether I am using my expensive equipment or you are spraying outside with a rattle can. So any knowledge you get is transferable. Also it is possible to set yourself up with an inexpensive spray gun and compressor that would be a big improvement over rattle cans or brushing. Not knowing how is a huge barrier to getting started with a real spray gun. Once you see how it do it, you will probably want to go to that next stage.

My motives for inviting you aren't pure. Doing the wrenching and sandblasting on the matching pair of Super Sports would save me time and get them out of my way. Of course I'm sure Tom will eventually be able to do that for us so my salesmanship ability on you won't be the determining factor in getting money out of them so those guys on the Ukrainian Russian border can have a bicycle to get around. Non military motorized vehicles are not allowed on the roads. They get to choose between riding a bicycle or walking. Of course they can't afford either a car or gas to run it anyway.
Doug Fattic is offline  
Old 12-31-21, 04:23 PM
  #24  
easyupbug 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,652

Bikes: too many sparkly Italians, some sweet Americans and a couple interesting Japanese

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 560 Post(s)
Liked 546 Times in 396 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...there are a boatload of variations on metallic silver.
I have touched up for years with great to OK results until silver! I could not agree more with you. I have tried for months to get even in the ballpark on a custom with spotty paint damage and have failed miserably. Various silvers and light and dark to mix from model shops, hobby stores, hardware stores and everything I have done is terrible. I am on my second Prep Pen sanding pen from removing touchups. I doubt I will ever get another keeper but if I do I can guarantee it will not be silver!
easyupbug is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.