Ear protection when pumping tires
#151
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If youre an engineer you should know that you can pump tires higher than the recommended pressure range, its not going to fail because you put an extra 20 psi in it. Heck you could probably run almost double. Whats gonna happen, the rim fails? 23s are perfectly safe, ive never had a shop tell me im too heavy to ride 23s.
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#152
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That was what I thought when you made it.
Of course. However, assuming you know what that factor is is a game for fools. Plus, it's not just the possibility of the rim blowing apart. They're also telling you that you can trust the hook to hold a bead up to that pressure. They're also telling you NOT to trust the hook to hold a bead above that pressure.
The question isn’t about materials, its about factors of safety.
You think a manufacturer isn’t going to build in some extra safety on top of its “max” recommendation?
You think a manufacturer isn’t going to build in some extra safety on top of its “max” recommendation?
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#153
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Don't need to pump tires that hard and a tire shouldn't blow at that pressure unless not seated right or you have tire or rim issues which you might actually have looking at previous posts.
A trick to those actually needing help with pumping tires take it slow, check the tire and make sure it is seating properly before going up to higher pressures. Yeah I might take an extra minute to pump tire but I don't blow tires these days. Also make sure you are using the correct tubes for tire size and giving them a touch of air before inserting them in the tire.
#154
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Good engineers find the actual maximum pressure before explosion (such as by proof testing, other methods used in other disciplines such as power electronics) or by re-using other well-proven limits if they apply, then warn the customer to stay within a safe limit, usually ⅓ to ¼ the maximum limit. It allows emergencies to be managed and for mishaps to not be harmful to the maximum degree. As well, the combination of rim/tire/spoking/hub is a system, not just a pile of individual parts, and it gives safe behavior because its used within the limits of the interaction bstween the system elements, not only the failure of one part. Why do we stress-relieve spokes? Why do we roll the just-mounted wheel to help the bead/inner tube to interface correctly?
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Sure, of course they do. They need to account for riders who are much heavier than average, and carry lots of groceries on their bikes, and ride carelessly. Oh, wait -- Larry does all of those things, AND he overinflates his tires. Gee, I wonder why he's having problems?
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How did I miss this thread?
LarrySellerz , a while back many of us told you that running a psi that is 50% over the recommended max is foolish. It's the reason why you're blowing tires.
You don't need ear protection; you just need some common sense.
LarrySellerz , a while back many of us told you that running a psi that is 50% over the recommended max is foolish. It's the reason why you're blowing tires.
You don't need ear protection; you just need some common sense.
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This is interesting, I know an expert wheelbuilder and i'll go talk to him about this question. Hadn't thought about it from this angle. Also guys im not talking about running tires at 50% over the rating (though I think you probably could get away with it) im talking about putting an extra 20-25 psi in there. For what its worth a national champ told me not to worry about other people commenting on my tire pressure, im heavy enough to be a big outlier. Especially if you factor in needing to carry stuff, id rather stay on the safe side and run them pretty hard.
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This is interesting, I know an expert wheelbuilder and i'll go talk to him about this question. Hadn't thought about it from this angle. Also guys im not talking about running tires at 50% over the rating (though I think you probably could get away with it) im talking about putting an extra 20-25 psi in there. For what its worth a national champ told me not to worry about other people commenting on my tire pressure, im heavy enough to be a big outlier. Especially if you factor in needing to carry stuff, id rather stay on the safe side and run them pretty hard.
#162
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Tires have a function you might not have considered: cushioning the rims from road shocks. If you have tires which are too narrow they are also not tall enough, and they might allow the rims to have hard impacts with the road surface especially if it is not perfect. You need enough height AND pressure to inlulate the rim from road bump damage (one aspect of the safe side), not so muchpressure that other new problems are initiated in the tire/bead/rim, and not so much pressure that old flaws and damage sites in parts are over stressed and a hard failure is accelerated. The first "safe side " is about tires not too soft. The other two "safe sides" are about tires not too hard. You need to understand and adhere to both conditions to get comfortable, lengthy service from your wheels including your tires.
The wheelbuilder I was talking about is Peter White, who publishes his opinions and policies on his website, from which he also sells retail and wholesale. I'm not saying to go get new wheels built, but there are a lot of experts out there, and this is one I would recommend reading.
Another one is Jobst Brandt, and another one is Sheldon Brown, both now deceased. Most likely not everything they say agrees three ways, but it's worth a look.
It's absolutely a fact that wider rims are stronger than narrower ones. If you are road racing, you probably should get a set of wheels built with tubulars, but get someone like Peter to design them for your size and weight and intended usage. If you are also going to commute with your common load of gear you carry, have a second set of wheels which work with a more durable wheel. Seriously, reallty good wheels these days have nearly zero problems with bead separations and blowouts. They really can be nearly trouble free these days.
Tubulars eliminate some of the tire bead problems that clinchers can have, but the need to be glued well to the rim. But the really can handle big pressures at 21 mm widths.
The wheelbuilder I was talking about is Peter White, who publishes his opinions and policies on his website, from which he also sells retail and wholesale. I'm not saying to go get new wheels built, but there are a lot of experts out there, and this is one I would recommend reading.
Another one is Jobst Brandt, and another one is Sheldon Brown, both now deceased. Most likely not everything they say agrees three ways, but it's worth a look.
It's absolutely a fact that wider rims are stronger than narrower ones. If you are road racing, you probably should get a set of wheels built with tubulars, but get someone like Peter to design them for your size and weight and intended usage. If you are also going to commute with your common load of gear you carry, have a second set of wheels which work with a more durable wheel. Seriously, reallty good wheels these days have nearly zero problems with bead separations and blowouts. They really can be nearly trouble free these days.
Tubulars eliminate some of the tire bead problems that clinchers can have, but the need to be glued well to the rim. But the really can handle big pressures at 21 mm widths.
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#163
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In the current market, I'd argue that it's incredibly dangerous to be telling people that it's probably fine to go 50% percent above max ratings, because many current products (especially in the tubeless) use significantly narrower margins than that for design certification and/or manufacturing test. I know multiple riders, on different types of tires from different manufacturers, who experienced blow-offs while running tires at just barely above their nominal maximum PSI. One of them took significant injuries from the crash and was off the bike for a while as a result.
Last edited by HTupolev; 07-06-22 at 10:05 PM.
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Just No!
Tim
Tim
#167
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Unless you're always filling your tires with pure CO2 instead of air, the Ideal Gas Law is going to approximate the scenario we're talking about quite closely. And even for pure CO2 it won't be wildly off.
Last edited by HTupolev; 07-06-22 at 10:36 PM.
#168
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So it seems you have two things you're doing wrong, first is that you're not making sure as you inflate that the tire is properly seated. There's a bead seat mark, usually a thin strip of rubber, around the whole tire that's designed to tell you if the tire is equal all the way around. Check it at 30, 60, and 90psi, doing so will let you see that the tire isn't slipping off.
Your next issue is that you're over-inflating the tires and they don't like it. Most tires list a max inflation of 120psi and there's really no good reason to go over that. Going higher just increases the risk of a blow off.
No, your tires weren't underinflated, and you don't need 130+ psi in them. In the past they didn't run higher unless they were tubulars. Road tubulars would be run as high as 130-135psi, 160psi was for track only, and only tubulars were/are capable of running that high. As two others have rightly mentioned, there's every possibility you're attempting to exceed the limit of the rim. Having the rim blow apart from over inflation will sound like a literal cannon going off near you, and if you're riding will create issues. Anything from the now flattened sidewalls slamming into the stays to the rim being split in half along the spoke holes and coming apart catastrophically, both are impressive to see.
BS, I toss on my shoes, phone, saddle bag, keys, helmet, and water bottles and the weight of the rider and bike well exceeds 300#. My road bike doesn't take wider than 23c and it has never been an issue. Currently running 25c on my cross bike for riding with the kids. I haven't had a flat yet this year and haven't had a pinch flat in several years. 32c has its place, and while I would consider it appropriate for a grocery getter or general use bike it isn't required at his weight.
At least its not puppies.
Yeah, if you're getting that many pinch flats, learn to ride. Until you learn to hop the curb right, expect pinch flats. Learn to dodge potholes, cracks, grates and any other obstacles or properly hop them, or expect pinch flats; that's just how it works. Pressure won't matter, at too high a pressure, hitting edges will just force the tire to unseat and blow and potentially dent your rim. At the right pressure, you'll just pinch and potentially dent the rim. Technique in your case matters more than pressure. I'm probably every bit your size, I run my 23c at 110r/100f, my 25c at 100r/95f on the road. At the track I run my 25c at 120r/110f unless I'm at Kissena when I stick with road pressures. Pinch flats and blow outs aren't an issue, but you have to watch how you ride.
Show me a tire rated to 145psi that isn't a tubular. And at 140psi I'd be more worried about the rim letting go.
Your next issue is that you're over-inflating the tires and they don't like it. Most tires list a max inflation of 120psi and there's really no good reason to go over that. Going higher just increases the risk of a blow off.
I pinchflatted 25s because they were underinflated for the type of riding I was doing (hauling groceries.) I needed 130+ in them, and frankly in terms of historical tire pressures this isn't even abnormally high. Back in the day much lighter people went to higher pressures. Thin tires for heavy riders are perfectly fine as long as they are inflated properly
Most folks are fine with 25mm. Most of my bikes are on 25mm. The problem is that Larry is pushing 300lb.s. That is the crux of the issue. What works for a 160lb TdF rider, is not going to work for a 300lb rider. At that weight he should be riding 32mm. It's not a conspiracy by Big Gravel. It's just fundamental physics. Large rider needs wide tires. You don't put 185/60/14 tires on a F150 truck, do you?
Show me a tire rated to 145psi that isn't a tubular. And at 140psi I'd be more worried about the rim letting go.
#170
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[QUOTE=LarrySellerz;22565478]Do any of you have like having hearing protection the pumping a tire?
Larry, I dig you buddy, but your intro on this one? The smoker you get, the player you are?
Larry, I dig you buddy, but your intro on this one? The smoker you get, the player you are?
#171
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Now, if you wish to lay down all your power on the pedals as often as you want, then get something wider
Only tire crews deservedly need ear protection or even possibly bomb-proof armor.
(the guy over pumping the truck tire is a dummy, not a real person, nobody died nor got hurt in this video). 2nd video tells the lethality of tire PSI.
Last edited by koala logs; 07-06-22 at 11:36 PM.
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Yes I just rode off the front of the group ride for like 7 miles today (it was the casual wednesday pace) and I couldn't have done that if i wasn't on narrow tires. I have a 23 up front and a 25 in the back. IDK why people insist that wide tires are just as fast, or even worse, that fat people can't ride on narrow tires. You just gotta pump them super hard..
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