CliffordK

As far as E-Bikes, if they are governed to about 20 MPH, then they have the same issues with speed differential between cars and bikes, and do well in bike lanes and off-road bike paths.

I think one of the issues with the e-bikes is that people hate to be sweating up a storm and see an e-bike blow past them. But that is a social issue, not a technology/equipment issue.

Looking up Oregon city and state laws:
https://www.eugene-or.gov/4665/E-Bikes



So the paths are generally open to class 1 and 2 E-Bikes (both governed to 20 MPH, with either throttle or pedal assist).

Later in on the page it lists a minimum age of 16, but otherwise very few restrictions for licensing.

In fact, the public utility is even offering a rebate on the E-Bikes.

Jan Feetz

"I think one of the issues with the e-bikes is that people hate to be sweating up a storm and see an e-bike blow past them."

Most people dislike the behaviour of the person riding the e-bike, not the e-bike itself. There is general lack of bicycle ettiquette and ignorance of rules amongst these folks.

In fact there is a petition started to get them banned in these parts.
https://www.theinertia.com/surf/tyle...a-state-parks/

rydabent

Actually 746 watts is one horse power. A 5 horse electric motor would be rather huge, and so would the battery to run it.

As far as electric bikes, what is the big deal. I dont get my underlovelies in a huge wad because an electric bike passes me.

Inisfallen

I don't know what the horsepower measurements are for the various kinds of ebikes, scooters, internal combustion scooters, and actual motorcycles competing for bicycles on the bike paths of my city, and I don't really care. I can see what their capabilities are, and that's what informs my opinion.

And I don't think I'm unreasonably objecting to sharing the greenways and bike paths with motorcycles, scooters and mopeds (especially when they're unregistered and uninsured, and operated by people who don't care about such niceties as going in the right direction, or using lights at night).

You many not be aware of just how crowded the paths are in this densely populated city of nine million people. We shouldn't have to compete for the paths designated specifically (and exclusively) for bicycles. Many of those using (or more accurately abusing) our bike paths are riding vehicles that can, and should, travel in the much greater amount of space allocated to motor vehicles. Because, of course, they are motor vehicles.

It is a big deal, and it's getting really dangerous.

bikebikebike

10-15% of riders, and ebikers high among them, lack any sense of road or trail etiquette.
It is a PITA for the other 85% who don't ride like jerks to be regulated, but it avoids an all or nothing exclusion.
I build ebikes , love what they can do , but 90% of the ebikers are inconsiderate, illegal, untrained, unsafe, discourteous jerks.
Pick two.How many does it take?
Look at Strava times on the trails.
No, if a transportation and multi use plan is to work there has to be cooperation and shared consensus of accessible safe enjoyable use by most everyone.
We had the same process when cars were introduced and we had a lot more dispersion with lower density to buffer the 20-30 years to process the transformation, and still ended up with a mess.
The Dutch know how to work together on things like this. Imagine if we could. they had a shared vision and went for it.
It pretty much works.

homeless in ca.

The Dutch have proportional representation which means fringe parties that advocate for issues like workers rights are part of the decision making process and not a rump faction of the Liberal-Democrat party.

Inisfallen

Well, the police at the Manhattan end of the Manhattan Bridge are gone. So all the electric biks and ICE vehicles are back. It was nice while it lasted.

Also, my return route, when commuting, takes me over the Brooklyn Bridge. There is always a police car parked at the Brooklyn end of the bike path (actually, where the new bike path and the walkway meet). These officers have their instructions, I guess, and those instructions are apparently to ignore ICE vehicles. So if you want to ride your GSXR-750 across the bridge, using the bike path to avoid traffic, without a license plate, you're fine. Go for it. Blow right past the police. They won't mind.

Same on the West Side greenway. Same on the waterfront greenway along Shore Parkway in Brooklyn.

On many of my commuting days, electric bikes (I'm not talking about those pedal-assist bikes, like those available as Citibikes, I mean actual electric-motored two-wheeled vehicles which are essentially mopeds) and ICE scooters actually outnumber bicycles.

We're losing control of this situation, and we're going to be driven out of our bike paths.

rydabent

In this argument what I find funny is the the fact the wannabe racer boyz are the ones that protest the most. They hate it when they see an old fart (84) like me riding at good speed on and e-trike up a hill into the wind. They bust a gut trying to speed around me and show me that "real bikes" ridden by "real cyclist" put to shame a lowly trike. They in fact are the ones that dont want to share the MUPS and think they are there just for them and as I say dont want anyone going faster than they are.

BTW my e-trike has a 750 watt motor that is legal on most trails. Even tho I could go faster I pretty much limit my speed to 15 mph.

Inisfallen

I'm hardly a "wannabe racer boy." I'm a sixty-something year old bike commuter, riding regularly between Brooklyn and Manhattan on a folding bike.

And if your ebike or trike is legal on trails where you're riding it, then that's not what I'm talking about.

What I'm concerned about are motor vehicles, both electric and ICE, that are not permitted in bike lanes and on greenways where I ilve, and that are completely capable of operating in the flow of automotive traffic. Some percentage (and not a trivial percentage) of them are actually required to be registered and insured, and require a license to operate.

And yet because they have two wheels, their operators feel justified in using the bike paths and greenways. And feel, correctly, that law enforcement will not stop them from doing so.

Even the ebikes (throttle ebikes) are capable of outperforming Tour de France riders, uphill, while carrying deliveries. Often operating at night, without lights, nearly as often as not going the wrong way.

And that's before we even get to, say, a 250cc Vespa or equivalent riding at speed across the Manhattan Bridge bike path, blowing his horn all the way, as if we, riders of actual bicycles, are the problem, not him. And once in a while you even get the occasional actual full-blown, large displacement motorcyle (quite often without a license plate). Parenthetically, someone quite a while back made a joke about Harley-Davidsons in the bike lanes, but I've yet to see one. Japanese sport bikes, yes, all the time.

The biggest part of the problem is that the laws are not enforced, at all. There are a lot of issues with New York City's Police Department, but essentially they've been on a soft strike for a few years now. That's just a fact, not a political statement. It isn't just bike lanes, it's subways and streets and just about everything. But here we're talking about traffic. I mean, we're at the point in NYC where people openly operate motor vehicles without license plates, and the cops don't care.

So, yes, I protest a lot. It's a problem, and it's dangerous, and it's going to get worse.

jon c. 

tilting at straw windmills