AJKruns26

Hi folks, new to the forum here and am looking for some advice from those of you who may be much more informed than I am.

I will be undertaking a rather challenging (for me, anyway) 7 day, 500+ charity ride in 2017 which will include a lot of climbs each day. I am from south Florida, so climbs are not my forte. I will obviously have to build in some type of training to get myself ready for the hills, but my dilemma comes down to my bike.

I currently have a 2004 Giant TRC Comp 2. I haven't done anything to it over the years and am not the most savvy person when it comes to the bike components. It currently has Ultegra 39/53 crankset and a 9 speed, 11/23 cassette. I want to make sure I have the setup to make it through these climbs.

Here are my questions for you all:
1. Do I (can I) change out my crankset to a triple ring and change out the cassette? If so, what would you suggest? Would this even be of any benefit?

2. Since the bike is 12 years old now, would it be in my best interest to get one of the newer bikes? I'm not looking to spend more than $2,000 on a bike, and I know my TCR Comp was around $2,300 when I bought it 12 years ago, so I'm thinking it may be a better bike than what I could get for that same money now. Bikes being considered are the Specialized Roubaix SL4, Kestrel RT1000, and Cannondale CAAD12 105.

3. Considering the Proform TDF 5.0 to simulate some of the climbs I will be facing. I know earlier versions of the TDF were crap but wondering if they have made any strides on improving them. Again, I don't have a lot of hills down here to train on so thinking that might be a way of getting some hill work in. Hate the thought of plunking down $2,000 on an indoor trainer though.

I appreciate any suggestions you may have. Thanks!!

Sidney Porter

If you are satisfied with the bike for your current uses. I would replace the cassette, chainand pickup an inexpensive rd if needed. A 32 or 34 tooth rear should help.

After the ride you can switch back.

Parking garages is a place to practice. Find a down town one that closes in the evening/weekends.

pacalolo

You don't mention what components you have on the bike but there's an 11-30 cassette available in 9 speed. You'd be better off with compact cranks instead of 53/39 but with the 11-30 you'll be OK. You also don't mention how fit you are.

Good luck!

ypsetihw

Just to touch on some of your other points, VERY fine bikes can be had these days for under $2000, many equipped with compact chainrings paired with 11 speed ultegra or 105 groups. I'm thinking specifically of motobecanes on BD and a couple nashbar bikes. these are light, aluminum, carbon forked, modern geometry, with all the fancy newness of modern drivetrains. some even have triples as standard equipment. If you aren't committed to a single LBS and their current stock of brand name bikes, I would encourage you to shop around!

Specifically, the Nashbar 105 Road bike is comparable to the CAAD12, and is on sale today for like $700. I ride one, and it's lovely, and half the price: Nashbar 105 Road Bike

Sidney Porter

Being in florida you can also go to a bikes direct retail store

tangerineowl

Well, if the bike still rides and fits you fine, then its $4k vs a new cassette and maybe chain. I know what I'd do.

There's got to be some hill/s close enough by to train on?

AJKruns26

Thanks for all the input! The more I think about it, the more I think I will change out my components on my existing bike. The bike works well for me down here in the flatlands and it is a comfortable bike. So I think I can put some nice components on it and end up saving quite a bit of money and know what I have rather than gamble on a new bike that I don't know how it will feel.

Answer to a couple of your questions: I do consider myself to be fairly fit. Not as fit as I was a couple of years ago (ran Boston Marathon several years ago but hip surgery has kept me off the roads since then), but can knock out a 30 miler at 18-20 mph keeping a 90 rpm cadence without much trouble at all. Am beginning to build upon my distance and hope to be pushing 50 miles within the next month or so.

I like the parking garage idea. I'll have to go in search of some near me.

As for hills, really, I have mapped out several rides down this way and the best I can find is a very short, 7.5% grade over 2/10's mile. I can head up to central Florida to spend some time in the hills there, but it will require overnight stays and completely unknown roads. Worth investigating.

cave12man

BD retail stores are a thing?! Honestly thought they were strictly online. That'd be actually kinda cool to see in person. Despite the hate they get around here, I'm a fan. As long as you do your research, it works for me.

cave12man

THAT is actually brilliant.

pacalolo

There's one in Orlando.

Maelochs

I'd go for a triple or a compact if I had the cash---and if you are contemplating a new bike and a $2000 trainer, you have the cash. Triple crank, new fd, long-cage rd, maybe go for 105 10-speed (or 11-speed but you would probably need a new rear wheel) and new brifters .... cheap way is to keep it 9-speed and switch to a compact crank, older MTB derailleur and 34-tooth top gear (Much cheaper.)

You have a fine bike. It is geared for flatland speed, but otherwise is an excellent bike. it isn't the newest model, but it's new enough that it isn't lacking anything. The only time The Latest Stuff matters is if you are trying to sell bikes to suckers who think they need The Latest Stuff. You already have The Good Stuff, which is what matters.

The parking garage idea is really good, if there is one conveniently close. Another alternative os to find the steepest hill around where you ride and to repeat it until you are sick of it .... then do that again every other day until you are really sick of it, but it is easier to ride. If you really want a challenge, load up a trunk bag or panniers with anything heavy and ride the hill.

I don't know about the tdf trainer (looks good on TV, but what doesn't?) but any trainer with a flywheel and no freewheel cannot simulate a hillclimb. I made that mistake last year--I also live in Flatlandia, and I tried a long group ride, figuring the hours on a trainer at high resistance would have me ready for real hills.

Real hills kicked my a$$ in an embarrassing way. Trainers have flywheels so you can build up momentum. Hills have gravity, which saps momentum. On a trainer, you can ease up a few strokes and hit it again. On a hill, if you ease up you stop, and have to start over.

A few weeks of dedicated training will make a big difference.

Also remember, Florida is sea level. If you are going to be climbing mountains, you might be a mile or more above that, which will make climbing that much harder.

You have plenty of time to train, IF you don't waste any of it. By riding season 2017 you will be climbing hills like you ride flats today.

merlinextraligh

I beg to differ. doing short climbs of parking garages, and bridge repeats shouldn't be a focal part of your training. Doing sustained climbs is about sustained power to weight ratio. So your training should be about raising your sustainable power. That is best done by intervals such as 2x20's. Repeats of bridges, and parking garages aren't long enough, and aren't the best way to raise your FTP (sustainable power).

Some bridge repeats (which are better than parking garages, given that they tend to be steeper, more sustained,and not illegal) will help some with your climbing form, but won't maximize your ability to do long sustained climbs.

My take on climbing for Flatlanders, which is distilled from years of working with professional coaches, and training for events like Everest Challenge, USA Pro Challenge, Le Etape de Tour, Masters Nationals, while living in Florida is set out here: everest challenge x2: Climbing for Flat landers

merlinextraligh

This is why its helpful to train with a power meter. Watts are watts. If you can sustain 300 watts for an hour on a trainer, you can sustain 300 watts climbing on the road. (in fact most people can do a bit better power on the road than on a trainer, particularly climbing.) Without a power meter, its too easy to slack off and not sustain the power, which you'll need to climb.

Steady state intervals on a good trainer, with a power meter, and the front wheel raised (to mimic a climbing position) are a very viable training method when you don't have real hills.

Steady state intervals, into a headwind, in a big gear, and deep in the drops (again to get the relative hip torso angle you'll have climbing) are also helpful.

All of this more so than short bridge repeats, which help some, but don't target the right energy systems.

Shuffleman

We have one in Jacksonville. It is in a high end shopping mall, which is slightly unusual. They do a lot of business. I have multiple customers in that area so I see it all the time. They sell a lot of bikes but it is not the same as a LBS. They sell very little outside of bikes and bike carriers. It is probably not for the guy looking for lbs service or knowledge though.
I have to agree that the garages and bridges may not be the best source. Bridges, depending on size, would probably be better because they would provide more of a sustained effort.
I would also advise you to stick with your current bike and just transfer out the minimum amount of parts that you can. A lbs can take care of this for you in no time. A new bike may not be the best thing for this specific event. As a former runner, I will state it like this: You don't eat new things or wear new things on race day, do you? I am assuming that since you were in Boston, you know what I am talking about. Testing a new bike on a short ride and then riding it on this distance is not a great idea. Stick with what you have for this ride. Good luck.

cave12man

Great info. Just added something to my bucket list.

MCODave

That's probably not a bad idea, there are some hills up near Clermont that would at least give you some idea of where you are with regards to climbing. If you check out last year's Horrible Hundred route I think it was something like 4300+ feet of gain, so not too bad for Florida. Clermont is a pretty cheap place to stay, and its even cheaper if you camp. I believe you even can stay at the Lake Minneola Inn which is right by the HH start and the site of the (in)famous Tiki Bar.

milkbaby

Wut merlinextraligh said plus some rides over the hills in Clermont as suggested by MCODave. Most of my riding buddies go to Clermont if staying in Florida, or they will take a trip to Georgia and train over the roads used for Six Gap.

Anecdotally, a friend who used to climb a bunch in California moved out here to flat Florida and found that a lot of our group rides are flat but often flatout hard all the way. When they went back and did some rides in CA, they were afraid to have lost all their climbing legs, but in reality rode just fine. Intervals and getting your teeth kicked in on hard tempo rides can build a lot of fitness. Just don't get fat.

PepeM

Power is power whether going up or down or whatever. Long climbs are all about threshold, so work on that.

caloso

This. I trained for the Mt. Diablo challenge with a steady diet of 2x20's and 6x5's in the delta. Dead flat, straight, and into the prevailing wind.

AJKruns26

Sorry I haven't been back on here is a while to thank you all for the feedback. Very valuable and very much appreciated! So far I have dropped 20 lbs and that is already making a difference. I ended up losing one of my two bikes (long story but LBS was going to put upgrades on it and informed me it was unsafe to ride due to rust through the down tube that I didn't know was as bad as it was). I ended up keeping my old bike but bought a new 2016 Giant Defy Advanced with 50/34 and 11-32. Will be using this bike for the big ride.

Excuse the stupid question: Please explain the "steady diet of 2x20's and 6x5's". Not having done training other than riding before, I'm not sure of the meaning of your suggestions.

Thanks again all!

rmfnla

I think the highest hill in Florida is the Thomas B. Manuel Bridge on the turnpike in Stuart...

rm -rf

You don't say where your big event ride is located. But long or steep hill climbs are way easier to manage after just a few trial climbs. you'll have a much better idea of cadence and effort, and you'll be way less intimidated at the start of your event ride. If you can take a trip to the Georgia mountains for a few days, it would be very helpful (and fun and scenic!) It might be an 8 hour drive, though.

2x20: That's two sets of 20 minute efforts, with a (10 minute?) recovery in between. Google search: 2 x 20 minute intervals
6x5: Six sets of 5 minute intervals.

You have the right setup for steep hill climbing, with your new bike with a 34-32 low gear. You should get a second cassette that's 12-25 for fast, flat riding in Florida. Then you'll have close shifts in the middle speed ranges, instead of wide gap shifts with the really low climbing cogs. It's easy to swap cassettes, you need a chain whip and a cassette tool.

EDIT-- like caloso mentions below, a heart rate monitor is very helpful for me on long climbs. I know what heart rate I can sustain for long periods, and try to keep right at that number as much as possible. I used to mount my old wristwatch monitor on a chunk of pipe insulation wrapped around my handlebars.

caloso

2x20' and 6x5' are interval sets. The first means that you ride for 20 minutes at a steady pace, take a break (usually 5 minutes) of easy pedaling, and then another 20 minutes at a steady pace. The second means ride at a steady pace for 5 minutes, take a break (in this case it's just one minute), and then repeat 5 more times.

These interval sets are efficient ways of increasing your functional threshold power (FTP) which is a fancy way of saying the highest average power that you can sustain for an hour. On the longer 2x20's, your effort is going to be a little less than that all-out for 1 hour effort (it raises pushes up FTP from below); on the 6x5's, your effort is going to be harder than the 1-hour all-out effort (it pulls it up from above).

The most precise way to measure this effort is with a power meter, but it's not necessary and it may be out of the question for a beginner. You can also track your effort with a heart rate monitor.

AJKruns26

Thanks so much guys for the quick responses! I knew they were intervals, just wasn't sure of the pace/distance/time, etc.

Rm-rf, the ride goes from Manhattan to Niagara Falls. It's called the Empire State Ride. Basically due north to Albany and then due west to Niagara.Based on the approximate elevation made for each day, there are some climbs in there that I know I need to get myself prepared for, so this information you all are sharing is very much appreciated – and needed!BTW, I do have the 12-25 cassette on my other bike that I will keep set up the way it is.I will be alternating bikes in my training but will be using the new one for the ride in New York.


Thanks again for the feedback!

Bah Humbug

My only suggestion would be 2x20s and 8x3s instead of 6x5, but do them at higher power. The 20-minute intervals help with sustained power; the 3-minute intervals help with short bursts (but not to sprint effort) that simulate short punchy climbs, and the ability to recover after those short climbs.