trekmogul 

Here is how I look at it, no ones opinion about plastic wheels was going to sway me one bit from buying them. If you can afford them and want them, then just buy them.. You need to looking into the German Lightweight Meilenstein Obermayer Wheels if you like light weight.. 950 grams for the pair.. awesome plastic at its greatest...

upthywazzoo 

I think the effect of the heavier wheel over this longer period will be dependent on the type of course. If the rider is able to break away in a flat criterium, a heavier (all else being equal) wheel would be a disadvantage in that a heavier wheel accelerates more slowly and takes longer to slow down. So if this rider is riding at the limit of bike handling, more energy will be wasted (from braking) and used (from accelerating). In a straight-line flat course, I could see a heavier wheel being less of a disadvantage. Rubik is right though--generally a breakaway survives due to poor leadership of, or a tactical decision on part of the peloton--who has waaaaay more juice to go fast than a small group.

Wooderson

I like plastic wheels, too. Those sure were packaged nicely!

BTW, you're comment reminded me of a song my girls listen to.

woodcraft

Yes, that was the point of my attempted drop shot there.

Bah Humbug

Frankly we don’t “need” most of this stuff anyway. It can still be nicer.

tomato coupe

I'm sure this question has been asked and answered before but, since you clearly like to spend money on shiny objects, why are you only buying Trek bikes? There are so many other really nice bikes out there.

noodle soup

I'd ask why he spends so much on aero wheels, that aren't very aero.

WhyFi

This thread needs more LEDs.

lesterburnham

and look fast and expensive.

I used to waste tons of money on go fast car parts to pretend I had a race car. Now I'm older and wiser, I waste it on bike stuff. Plus my wife can't tell when I bring new parts home.
I actually did a few track days. I think I was more worn out after a full day at the track vs. riding 100 miles.

Iride01 

Sure there is. As long as this universe can also have a 100 meter sprint and 50 meter sprint finish.

I'm cherry picking the circumstances to fit the contention that lighter rotational mass is a benefit in specific circumstances. The video only seemed to be using circumstances that involve long rides that wouldn't have a high percentage of acceleration, so overall, there would be no or insignificant benefit shown.

But if you were having a impromptu sprint with your ride group, wouldn't you want to have that minuscule advantage of lower rotational weight if you could easily afford it?

As for those claiming less rotational weight better than equal weight reduction elsewhere, then I'd agree that there isn't enough difference for overall performance since acceleration isn't a large part of rides of any length. We all try to avoid stops in our routes don't we?

As I said previously, it was hard for me to understand the choppy sound and incomplete sentences in the video. Was there a transcript or better article about the subject that maybe will give me some more insight to why this is such a big deal? Marginal gains are used for many things. This is one.

upthywazzoo 

Totally--and maybe there should be more discussion about what makes a good all-around wheel for the desired riding.

Most def.

burnthesheep

What do you mean "made up"? Are you accusing me of a Hambini-esque fabrication of data? Or are you accusing people of making stuff up because you disagree with what they say? Doesn't seem like you've provided anything to this topic that is actually on-topic at all. Have you ever taken Chung's long Powerpoint about VE and read the entire thing, pulled out the math, put it into Excel, and then used it to actually test equipment? And had it appear to actually work? You ever actually get suggestions from the people working at the company that make your wheels, or have them verify a tire/wheel combo?

Or you just floating this "make **** up" thing as another useless off-topic contribution to a topic?

How is it "made up" that you spend more time at steady state after an acceleration? That's the nature of acceleration, in physics. A change in velocity over time. You don't infinitely accelerate on a bike. You might do it 30 or 40 times, but it's still a short period each time. People can't even quantify accurately these mystical accelerations savings of their lightweight wheels. There's real data that exists for aero wheels. It might not be "5w", but that's a number to get you started. 5w is made up. It's made up because it's irrelevant. It could be 2, 5, 10, 20. The point was that when you apply the two marginal gains over the period of time in which you actually see the gain.......one of the situations wins out. The periods of time are so different in scale it makes it irrelevant whose tunnel data I choose or what figure I "make up".

It all started here in BF with you and I way way way back with the reply about a "selection" or something during a hammer ride and you bringing up the "made up stuff". Might have been first ever reply to me on BF.........and you used the phase "made up stuff" before providing any feedback. You had to get the jab in before contributing to the forum with a reply. What's your hangup? You really rub me as the grumpy old man roadie racer of "all these youngins don't know **** and I'm going to tell them about it".

Get off my freaking nuts dude. I won't reply to your stuff any longer, and you don't reply to mine. I'm not a fan of "ignore" lists on forums as a censorship but it might be worth it here. Most of the other people who disagree with me provide some kind of useful response with logic, reasoning, data or something that contributes to the topic.

rubiksoval

Just that. Made up. You make up random terms for near anything ("holds" "off the limiter")", you post completely bat-**** random things with zero context, you make up weird anecdotes that are irrelevant to the thread, you make blatantly wrong assertions, etc.

And now you're making up multiple paragraphs of stuff I didn't address whatsoever.

"What the literal **** are you talking about?" was probably the most apt response I've seen to one of your random posts, and it could be applied to many more.

I explain where I disagree with your responses, but that has nothing to do with deciphering your bizarre, made-up lingo.

rubiksoval

This sounds like yet another one of the times when you pretended you had a clue about something you obviously didn't. You've done that since your first ride, apparently. I think I said as much a while back on slowtwitch about you using your whole one year of experience to jump on a soapbox explaining how racing and training is actually done.

You really rub me as an over-eager charlatan who'd rather sound like someone who knows what they're talking about than actually being one.

trekmogul 

trekmogul 

I buy PLASTIC WHEELS" that appeal to me since I am the one paying for them is how I look at it.. quite simple logic honestly..

trekmogul 

I sure can provide them..

Aladin

LMFAO.. moronic.

For instance.. take my sister's 30+ lb hybrid w stock issue heavy wheels and heavy rubber.. go down the road.

Then.. mount the wheelset I built weighing 3 lb less.. "Paddle" those... then.. tell me row-taken weight does not
mean anything.

I do not care how much these online children try to hawk a product... trolling for morons is all it amounts too.

asgelle

Did it take you long to come up with that example. Here's a thought exercise: count how many variables were changed beside row-taken mass. moronic.

upthywazzoo 

If riding in the middle of the peloton, wouldn't the 404 aero advantage be trivialized?

burnthesheep

I agree with you, while riding in the middle of the peloton. I'm personally concerned about the savings when not in the peloton.

I'm going to ignore certain folks and describe a theoretical situation to try to make my opinion clear to everyone:
Let's say I'm in a race. Let's say it is a criterium. Let's say it does have some kind of course design which will cause "acceleration". Or whatever approved term I should be using there. Let's say at some point.........for whatever reason......I'm pushing wind outside of the group and I'm not getting dropped. So, still in the race. Could be a dozen different reasons, some good, some bad. Maybe I'm a moron and am on the front of the whole darn race. While I'm doing that, it's proven, known, fact.......a deeper wheel is faster. No guessing.

Personally, I'm going with what I know for sure. I own a set of HED 6+ and the original 38mm "bargain" aero wheels that came on my bike. I know the 38's are a touch lighter. I own them. They're mine. I also know the HED 6+ are faster than the 38mm wheels at constant velocity at any non-zero speed. It's a deeper wheel, it's a really nice aero profile, good data exists for that HED 6+. I know for sure that the HED 6+ will save me some amount of watts at 25mph over the 38mm wheels. I have no good proof that the accelerations I'll make in that race will be made up for by choosing the marginally lighter 38mm wheels.

But apparently I'm a fraud and not qualified enough to hold an open discussion about it. So ignore I said anything and I'll keep to myself.

rubiksoval

Careful, your persecution complex is starting to show.

burnthesheep

I like over eager charlatan better. Has a better ring to it. It would probably sound good in a political advert in Iowa. Persecution complex has too much of a DSM IV flair.

rubiksoval

Well, it's a complex, not a person. So it's certainly acceptable to be an over-eager charlatan with a persecution complex if that's what you're going for.

scuzzo

oh i remember you, your that guy who just buys lots of bike stuff and post on the bike fourm waiting for attaboys...
ATTABOY!!!