iab

I certainly understand the bias on the forum. But how do I measure a PR without my Alessi watch? Post to the forum without my Karetll chain and Artimide light? Type on my computer without Olivetti? Can't have one without the other.

cpsqlrwn

Giuseppe Pela and Tommasini are the first names that popped into my mind. Masi is also a good addition that others have not mentioned. De Rosa of course. And Losa. I thought the mention of Basso Brothers was interesting. To have built so many frames that bore other builders names certainly speaks to their respect in the industry. Losa falls into that same discussion having built so many frames for others. To me, Losa and Pela are in a league by themselves. They are like the founding fathers of frame building, artisans of their craft.

JackJohn

All of the above plus Aldo Gios, still building incredible frames with his son near Turin…

iab

Also, can't believe 3 pages and no mention of Pinella de Grandi.

Miloburnz

Are we talking craftsmen who built the best designed frames or the best looking frames?
Colnago came to fame building well designed frames but if you put a Tommasini and Colnago side by side the Tommasini will win the aesthetic design contest but i have no knowledge of how they would have compared in pro cycling back when they were new. The Italian frames were quite flash back in the day with all the chrome detailing and even the lesser known ones like the Vanni i have made with SL ,chromed brackets and gear cables hidden in the frame must've been quite a job to build it compared to other more simpler designed frames.

Wileyone 

Yeah but he lied about it.

bikingshearer 

Along the same lines, I picked up a 1986 De Rosa10 or 12 years ago, a real beauty. As I did back then, I took it to my go-to shop for C&V work (since sold to Trek) to have the then-owner (Steve Howard, an old riding buddy) check the alignment, chase the threads, that sort of stuff. When I picked it up he said it was "pretty straight -- for an Italian Frame." He said it with a smile, but he wasn't kidding.

repechage

In the later 80's there was a bike shop on Union Street in SF that had a frame alignment table adjacent to the work area on the showroom floor, the boast was that all frames sold were aligned. Of course the second thought was, "they need alignment?"

repechage

the lack of USA market awareness.

plenty unrecognized.

iab

idk, whole book about him. Lotsa folks own it. Too old-timey, maybe?

redo1

Always difficult to figure out who made and did not make frames. Pinella was the chief mechanic at Bianchi, but did not make any bike frames. He probably handled and built-up frames made by Valsassina, Carlo Drali, Gilardi, and guess some more.
Same with Masi, Colnago, Gios, Pinarello, Paletti and others. Not really into building frames themselves, but very important nevertheless in the history of italian bikes.

smd4

Spoiler bottom bracket? Fully sloping fork crown? Fastback seat lug? Classic bars and stems? The Laser? Not to mention all the other innovations that were ahead of their time (clipless pedals?). Cinelli has to be at or very near the top.

repechage

They must have greyer hair than me.
First I have been made aware of him, and I have been a student of vintage lightweights for over 23 years.
Cannot be aware of it all.

You are not doing your marketing, but I know, the good at marketing designers, don't design, they are salesmen and well off.

repechage

what is the date on the fork steerer?
Interesting mix of bottom bracket ports and the fluted seat stay caps.
Those transfers would not be used long, from a silk screener's perspective, way way too many colors and tight registration.

vespasianus

And I think it will vary from person to person and for what you want to do with it. I had a Tommasini Sintesi but dreamed of a Colnago Master. Finally got the chance and jumped on it and almost put my Sintesi out to pasture. I loved the look of the Colnago and still consider it to be one of the most beautiful bikes ever made. Just wonderful. But I did not like the ride. It felt harsh and flexy at the same time. It just felt all wrong. My old Sintesi was just better feeling to me. I still have that bike- have not ridden it in a while but it still gives me a smile when I do ride it!

iab

Well that's interesting. Maybe my translation sucks, or the article may have gotten it a little wrong, but his indicates he did build. - https://bicicloide.blogspot.com/2012...Ho-wG2IACvJFL8

Why do you think the article is incorrect? Also do you think he never built? Exclusively a mechanic at Frejus and Bartali's bikes for the Tour?

redo1

The article does not state that Pinella made frames, except for one bit where it is not very clear, where it reads that Valsassina, Gilardi and Pinella 'constructed' the Bianchi bikes. A frame alone does not make a whole bike, and that is where Pinella seems to have been the king. Further down in the article, you will have a page where it shows you when Valsassina stopped making frames for the team (because hired away from Bianchi by Cino Cinelli) and when Gilardi started making these frames for the professionals. Now Carlo Drali was not working inside Bianchi, but people say that some of the reparto corse frames were made by him for professional riders.
How many of the 'normal' racing bike Bianchi frames, not for professionals, were made by Valsassina or Gilardi I would not know. Am pretty sure that they had at least helpers, or perhaps other framebuilders who would help in the production?
By the way, when Gilardi retired from Bianchi, he joined Lupo Mascheroni (another known mechanic) and made frames for him..

jdawginsc 

Massimo (Marcello Faggin's son-in-law)

iab

It would be interesting to know more about the shop dynamic/workflow. I understand Valsassina and Gilardi were the primary builders, but were they the only builders? Brazing? Filing?, Etc. What else did Pinella do? He left Frejus in 1952. Ghelfi didn't have much of a team at all in 1940, 41, 42, 43, 45, 46, 47, 48. That's a long time for not setting up team bikes. Considering he was the guy for Martano, Bizzi,, Valetti and Bartali when he was at Frejus and the Tour in 37/38. They kept him busy with something. And I very much enjoy your insights. Not a lot of folks like the old stuff.

gugie 

Steve Howard of Livermore Cyclery, really nice guy. Used to swing by as a sales rep in the mid-80's, did a couple of rides with him.