bobstad

My most recent trip into Seattle, I found taking time to look at a row of rental bicycles in an automated stand downtown; that there is currently a law there, and turns out in all of Seattle's King county-which requires a person wear an approved helmet, with a $30 fine I found later for a first offense of not wearing one.

Phoning one of the Recycled Cycles stores in Seattle, in conversation with someone working there; I was told the law is currently being reconsidered, since this is effectively killing the rental business-so that there's a chance the law will be rescinded. He'd also said except in certain corridors downtown in Seattle, he'd never known the law to be enforced; who also doesn't pay the tickets he used to get there as a bicycle delivery person, which aren't citations part of the system associated with motor driven conveyances.

I'm one of those who also question whether or not people should be required by law to wear motorcycle helmets or use seat belts and shoulder harnesses driving a car-though I certainly support laws requiring cars to have seat belts and shoulder harnesses, which otherwise manufacturers would probably never provide: And I always use both seat belt and shoulder harness driving; not particularly to be safe in a crash, as much as to be securely positioned in the seat while driving...though I do believe in the efficacy of restraints in event of a crash. Similarly, I support whatever assures good quality and design of motorcycle helmets; and typically wore one even before required by law, though not always.

I wish the same type of data which causes laws to be made requiring helmet use on motorcycles and bicycles, were available about head injuries in automobile accidents. No doubt this has been why passive restraint systems like air-bags exist; while can anyone imagine helmet laws for cars, which would probably be a lot more effective than air bags and definitely cheaper. Just imagine a car full of citizens; each wearing NASCAR style helmets; which is just about as reasonable as requiring helmets for cyclists or motorcycle riders, in essence. And why limit protection to head injuries; and not have people also wear leather or similar protection for other areas of the body?

I'm not against mandatory use laws, from any libertarian point of view; simply as I believe mandatory laws favor inexperienced people and those with more money, over those with skills-and like many, I don't suffer fools gladly: Particularly when driven largely by manufacturers' lust to sell vast quantities of product. Much the same way I dislike complex high-tech applications in many areas of endeavor. Besides bicycling to get around I try to favor whenever feasible, over using my car-which has remained parked over three years now needing a little work; I also have a '91 Ford Festiva...and have owned several other cars, even living out of one the majority of the twelve years we were together...a '66 VW "square-back" station wagon I had from '82-'94.

That Festiva is an example of one of the last light weight small cars on the road, along with the Honda Civic for instance; which when produced was considered to use ten year old technology and had a dry weight of about 1750 pounds, or about seven or eight hundred pounds less than the same size cars, which now also get about the same gas mileage-which is because the newer cars have far more complex engines and even drive trains, to achieve similar fuel economy; and also are built to be far more "crash resistant" than older little cars.

Festivas now are prized by those who have one, and are still manufactured in Venezuela and popular in the middle east; which is sort of like owning a cross between a VW Beetle and '55 Chevy for me, with the same serviceability and better economy than either, as well as some of the panache' of each of those too. They are relatively easy to work on; simple and incredibly sturdy and reliable.

I think only in the United States, is there such a general mania for making safety an issue of product manufacture rather than user responsibility. Here we commonly see high school students who drive cars, and I'd imagine car ownership amongst the general populace is at a far higher percentage than anywhere else in the world. Amongst at least the dominant culture and society here, car ownership is considered more a necessity than anything else; like some people joke about a Jewish birth, that the final trimester is only over after a person has their Ph.D.

The way I was raised and matured as an adult; having either a bicycle, motorcycle or car required I be able to do much or even most of the mechanical work on any of those. Far different than many people, where with the increasing complexity of technology, is easy to imagine a shrinking percentage of people are capable of taking full care of their own vehicles-even bicycles.* No doubt many places exist on the planet, where child or young people's use of bicycles is rare; and would be considered something only people with considerable wealth might do.

Anyway, I've been often using commuter buses to take my bicycle with me from here in Bellingham to both Seattle a hundred miles away, and Olympia too which is about sixty miles south of Seattle. Besides that, I typically do all my grocery shopping using my bicycle; so in either role, my bike typically carries large loads and always has both front & rear racks, fenders and a generator lighting system.** Having to also have along a helmet, seems both a large and odious expense, which will also take up space otherwise devoted to other things; and with so many different ones on the market, also a chore to find one I like best.

Not only that; but, I've also over decades evolved a system of bicycle specific headgear, use of a helmet seems likely to totally disrupt and pervert-which I think is the real bottom line, in my dislike of using helmets. Particularly favoring a good bill on most my cycling hats, for keeping rain out of my eyes and face; and also which will keep my head warm in cold weather, or protected from the sun when hot out...not to big a deal here in the northwest, though important in other climes.***

Plus, I vastly distrust the people and organizations which create the regulations requiring use of helmets on pedal power bicycles. With motorcycles and also automobiles, there's the example of racing technology greatly influencing street helmet design. If helmets riding bicycles are so important, are those reflective of bicycle racing habits? I've never been interested in bicycle racing, so have to wonder whether or not helmets are used by racing riders; which my impression at least is they aren't?

Simply to address these and other problems, I think there should be a helmet specific forum here.

*Do bicycles produced for third world places, use the same sorts of modern high tech things such as sealed bearings which aren't user serviceable? I can't imagine those last longer than the older style bearings, which had to be disassembled and greased regularly a person could easily accomplish themselves.

I'm someone still riding a 27" wheel bike, the second now of a pair of Windsor Carerra Sports after having gotten one of those new during 1973. So that I'm still irked at the change to 700mm rims, which then and now seemed like collusion in order to make obsolete an otherwise highly viable phenomena since though nearly the same size 27" and 700mm wheels will not interchange. I've rarely had new bicycles, so have still never ridden a 700mm wheel bike; while increasingly a 27" wheel bicycle is becoming more difficult to find parts for.

**I've about the same attitude about bicycle lighting as helmets; and greatly resent the apparent demise of a commonly available and widely used generator lighting system for bicycles, and particularly in favor of high powered headlights which easily are capable of blinding opposing traffic, typically are expensive, and require either batteries or recharging thus are far less independent than a generator system.

People who expect to ride at night with similar levels of illumination as someone driving a car; to me miss the point of cycling, and remind me of the drive to legislate safety and the tendency to expect to be able to throw money at a problem to be able to solve that. Night riding with low levels of illumination is a skill and sensitivity a person can acquire and feel safe doing-with practice and intelligence.

***I've also one hat which is unique, unlike any other I've ever seen; which lately has me intrigued, as feasibly a model for an alternative sort of protective bicycle headgear.

This is more or less an amorphous shaped cone like affair flaring at the bottom, so providing good eye protection like a hat with a bill; which is made of hemp that is somehow crocheted in a circular fashion, resulting in an especially thick fabric-I guess that could be called-which seems in potential possibly very protective of one's head-yet is as flexible as a stocking cap, and folds up into about any shape a person can imagine.

Which almost seems perhaps a traditional design, rather than trading upon the current new wave of popularity of hemp products. Something a person can wear in a few configurations; simply by pinning up one or more sides to as many as three of those all raised at once, like worn during the 1700s with hats of more stiff materials.

Lately, recognizing this as favored riding my bike, I'm trying to create a good head strap on the thing too; even though my dumping my bicycle's to date limited to a single instance well over ten years ago-crossing some black plastic part of a railroad crossing one morning, which late dew made so slick the bike simply flipped out from under me-even though I'd been traveling sedately for sure.

Since I'm nearing being sixty five years old, I figure odds may favor my being less reliable as a rider; or at least more brittle?

bobstad

My post is so long; I hope folks get my point: That a forum specifically for helmets here, might be a fine idea?

Trying to use the "search" function; I wasn't able to locate much, or in reality way too much...by simply searching for "helmet" or "helmets."

There seem so many to chose from; I'd wanted to get some good advice, trying to buy one. Though I couldn't figure out a way to do a search; which would identify helmet discussions specifically.

Though I'm someone with limited computer use familiarity; having as skills, mostly knowing how to cut & paste-with my old 35 wpm high school sophomore typing class skills laden with mistakes, which has gotten quicker if also just as error full with typos I have to go back & correct.

GlennR

Not sure if you know that some people feel wearing a helmet gives a false sense of security and you're more likely to take chances you wouldn't if you didn't have a helmet on.

All helmets have to meet minimum safety specifications.

BTW.. i wear a helmet.

You can't legislate away stupidity.

10 Wheels

https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...hread-2-a.html

Machka 

No ... to a whole forum dedicated to Helmets.

Yes ... to a whole forum dedicated to Shopping. "Buying Bicycles and Bicycle Equipment, Gear, Kit, Etc." ... where all your questions about "Which bike should I get?" "Which helmet should I get?" "Which gloves ... shoes ... shorts ... shifters ... wheels, etc. etc. etc. ... should I get?" would go.

bobstad

I've lately be let known, riding a bicycle gives a false sense of security; too. From a friendship over the past eight years with someone about twenty years my junior a kung fu style martial artist; generally critical of about anything, who considers bicycles from a vastly different point of view than I do.

In large part, I think riding a bike has particularly appealed to me; from back problems resulting in muscular atrophy, from early life and then juvenile spinal diseases. Lately, after teenage obesity I'd overcome as a young adult; I've again ballooned out, very suddenly about six years ago-so that I'm finding important I try to walk quite a bit, or I'm unused to that even if riding my bike regularly; and physically impaired if I suddenly want to walk quite a bit.

Plus, my kung fu friend has lots of reasons for prejudice against bicycle use; as something of considerable value, amidst society where too few can afford such things.

My bike is also greatly modified to suit my needs, with upright handle bars for instance which took a lot of work to contrive as successfully as I've done; with also fenders, front & rear racks and a good generator lighting system, lots of reflectors, etc. So envied as a fancy custom job; which makes me shy to repaint the thing, even with the rust preventative stuff I'm planning on that ends up as a black primer coat I'm sure I could live with rather than something fancier.

I'm easily tempted to regard my martial artist friend as basically a hustler using an affinity for bullying a person, to psychologically abuse me; in other words more a social predator than any sort of Robin Hood-which is how he likes to feel fancied, and likely is insane enough to believe too. Someone with a deeper professed belief in organized crime; than other prevailing social standards, can be one impression of the fellow.

With the cops effectively the army of the rich; my friend likely has his points, too. While in practice for me personally; I do need to make sure I do some walking, while also finding my bicycle invaluable often-which is due hidden causes, a normally able bodied person like my friend never has to consider.

While my back problems have always made managing any material things I have, a sticky problem. Duke Ellington in his autobiography Love You Madly; claims all the worlds problems are caused by people with complexes. Too bad, he'd this complexity about music? Oh well...as a twelve year old, I was used to reading novels by Charles Dickens from cover to cover in a night; while my athletic father complained about my "five minute attention span" and "procrastination."

GlennR

ok

blue192

Umm Just a quick question... Don't rental bike companies issue a helmet WITH the bike?

Jseis 

Given that here in Washington the roads are public highways owned by the local, state, and federal government...the government can regulate their use inclusive of you wearing a pink tutu with a red blinking light affixed to your head. This is not say that they don't error. Ah Seattle...a hilly misty place where all should ride. Having bike commuted in Seattle 40 years ago I attest that no amount of regulations will fix stupid and stupid will kill you deader than dead. Just wait for the e-bikes. So travel with a helmet, rent a helmet, go to Goodwill & buy a helmet (no law against that). Or buy a new one at Costco. When in Rome.....

Loose Chain

Odd that in cycling cultures most do not wear a helmet or knee pads or butt air bags or safety glasses or special cycling cloths or shoes nor any of that stuff that mostly exists to part an individual from his/her money. And most of it is just junk made in China.

bobstad

I've lately be let known, riding a bicycle gives a false sense of security; too. From a friendship over the past eight years with someone about twenty years my junior a kung fu style martial artist; generally critical of about anything, who considers bicycles from a vastly different point of view than I do.

In large part, I think riding a bike has appealed to me; from back problems resulting in muscular atrophy, from early life and then juvenile spinal diseases. Lately, after teenage obesity I'd overcome as a young adult; I've again ballooned out, very suddenly about six years ago-so that I'm finding important I try to walk quite a bit, or I'm unused to that even if riding my bike regularly; and physically impaired if I suddenly want to walk quite a bit.

Plus, my kung fu friend has lots of reasons for prejudice against bicycle use; as something of considerable value, amidst society where too few can afford such things. My bike is also greatly modified to suit my needs, with upright handle bars for instance which took a lot of work to contrive as successfully as I've done; with also fenders, front & rear racks and a good generator lighting system, lots of reflectors, etc.

I'm easily tempted to regard my martial artist friend as basically a hustler using an affinity for bullying a person, to psychologically abuse me; in other words more a social predator than any sort of Robin Hood-which is how he likes to feel fancied, and likely is insane enough to believe too. Someone with a deeper professed belief in organized crime; than other prevailing social standards, can be one impression of the fellow.

With the cops effectively the army of the rich; my friend likely has his points, too. While in practice for me personally; I do need to make sure I do some walking, while also finding my bicycle invaluable often-which is due hidden causes, a normally able bodied person like my friend never has to consider.


WOW. I just started to check out the helmet threads. That looks knarly to say the least. I'm glad someone thinks making some sort of forum where consumer choices including those for picking out helmets, is a good idea.

As I was thinking more about safety; easy to imagine is that from being less than able bodied, I'm also a lot more wary of my physical body and take risks more intelligently-perhaps? I'm also fond of free climbing cliffs alone without any sort of mountaineering equipment; said to be especially dangerous or even foolish, though greatly appealing with my back problems-even efficacious overcoming muscular atrophy. Something I've only done rarely; though find absolutely attractive.

I ran into another fellow a stranger about the same age as my martial artist friend; who'd himself been telling me about himself and mentioned he'd broken various bones in his body eighteen times, who'd been at a hostel in Seattle I was at and in the military in Germany before emigrating to Brazil with his family where he'd lived the past twenty years while supporting himself in some sort of technical capacity working on fishing boats off the coast of Alaska.

Also the very first and to date only supporter of Donald Trump I've ever met; which was a little strange as I'm a sort of radical leftist-though also mentored as a writer by hobo journalist, author, printer and publisher John Patric the man from Brazil knew of and approved, so that I'd deftly avoided his vociferousness about Trump rather luckily.

bobstad

Damn straight! That's the logic which most appeals to me.

I think coddling cyclists over much, as happens often here in Bellingham, WA that's a college town of about seventy thousand also the county seat; is really dangerous, since a person gets used to strange habits motorists have here, so unlike most places. You can never rely upon drivers here to simply obey the rules of the road; who'll instead on a road without another car in sight, stop in the middle of a major arterial while I'm waiting at a stop sign, and expect me to cross in front of them.* Yeah, in this country; I think bicycling is totally yuppified some places, and mimics similar trends no doubt also driven by rampant commercialism.

I'm one of those people a radical leftist, definitely in mentality; who imagines alternatives to capitalism with global standards which would equalize material equality more for everyone, would obviously produce more rational consumer standards. I mean that the cost of a bicycle helmet seems likely to be nearly as much as I'd had into my bicycle total until recently, when I''ve had to rely upon shops to do work I'd of done myself in earlier situations. Typically, I could always get an used bike or pieces of one; and have something decent for touring and/or normal use, with front and rear racks, fenders and a decent generator light system for about a hundred dollars. The price sure goes up exponentially however, once a person starts having to pay shops to do the work.

Except for a habit as someone for whom shopping generally, is an often favored pastime-one facet of living since early '85 on a disability assistance income though I've also a reasonably good BA and enough subsequent education on my own, people have suggested they thought I should be teaching in college; despite one habit is of often looking in bicycle stores for bargains on specials tables or similar bins: I'm sure nearly all the things such as clothing, I favor for use on my bike; have been non-bike specific and simply items which have come to hand, and been readily adaptable to my cycling.

My long favored cycling shoes, were a pair of special and unusual black leather part suede Converse high top sneakers also cool as dressier shoes, I found in a Ross store which had been discontinued and were on special, someone eventually stole from me. Unlike any other Converse shoes I've seen; these had an unusual sole material, and were especially good on slick surfaces which most Converse shoes and particularly Chuck Taylors make really dangerous.

I got a new pair of those, some Chucks which are rubberized and sold as good winter wear for urban folk often out and about on the streets; though like all other Chucks they are totally slippery on nearly anything wet. They seemed ideal for riding winters; though I like them more for walking, and have installed their thick and comfortable rubber insoles in a regular pair of canvas hightops which are generic copies of Chucks from Payless shoes-which are now my new riding shoes most of the time. Those soles have never impressed me with being slick on wet surfaces; so probably are a little better than standard Chucks, though I need to experiment sometime to be sure.

Canvas high top basketball type sneakers, have been my typical footwear now since given a friend's used pair the winter of '78; which were Chucks though when lots of companies were producing competitive canvas high tops of their own design, so sort of the golden age of canvas high tops then. I'd liked lots. I also got a pair of Doc Martins at the same Ross store on another occasion; though which with strapless toe clips would be lousy on my bike. I do ride often with a pair of sturdy, thick soled thongs we used to call those; or "flip flops" and I've heard other names for those too. The toe clips make these seem definitely safe and reasonable for cycling, I've used comfortably even riding around downtown Seattle, which is supposed to be pretty dicey. Very comfortable.


*That would make me liable if anyone ever took the opportunity to run over me, or freakishly somehow accidentally did the same thing/which is simply annoying in any event; so that I've made more use here of "the war finger salute," probably than the whole rest of my times riding a bike. I really hate doing that, though which is such an accustomed reflex as a rider I've a hard time disciplining myself, not to-that makes me feel like a mental defective, wing nut or crank case; at large amongst more sane types.

bobstad

The automated rental facility near Seattle's famed Pike Street public market; had a big notice either on the bicycle or the locked standard a person's payment liberated those bicycles from-which boldly and very visibly stated that "by law" a person was required to wear a helmet riding one of those bikes. Yet no helmets were available; a person should've been able to rent just as they'd rent a bike there.

I guess the helmet law came into being in Seattle, after the rental devices were installed; which was a law existing in Seattle's King county, a long time before implemented in the city itself.

Where there are actually humans renting bikes to other humans, easy to imagine is one may also rent a helmet too? Since I was told that that area of Seattle with the automated rental unit, is the only place the worker at Recycled Cycles, ever found the bicycle helmet law being enforced; this seems likely to make the automated rental, which looked expensive and high tech, very unprofitable.

Those bicycles themselves also seemed like they'd cost a lot; since both especially well built and sturdy looking made for lots and lots of usage by people not necessarily careful or knowledgeable riders, while with little or no responsibility for the bikes...and also specially made to work well with the automated rental device.

Each bike was locked into an electrically operated metal post like device, about knee high; with say twenty or thirty bikes total all in a row, all the same pale shade of green and identical to one another with a huge heavy metal horizontal chunk of metal say a quarter of an inch thick or thicker, welded directly to the headset; which is what locked into the knee high electrically operated heavy metal posts all in a row the bikes were attached to awaiting renters, I'm assuming also stood there all night too in any sort of weather.

Near the end of the block, at the end of the row of bicycles, was a taller heavy metal tower about the same height as a person; where you'd make your payment to rent the bike.

This was sort of an unusual system; where to use a bike cost only eight dollars a day, though you had to return the bike to the stand every half hour or get charged extra. I don't know if you could get the bike back for additional use; or if the "day" amounted to only half an hour's rental, and you had to spend another eight dollars for another half hour-which seems more likely, except that so many high tech options could've existed given the automated nature of the facility. I'd expect a person needed some sort of plastic card type of money to use these; though perhaps cash would work there too?

Thinking now of the tourist season, so near such an attractive place for tourists as the Pike Street Market; I'd imagine someone enterprising could make a killing renting helmets to people attracted to those rental bikes? Guessing, I'm thinking that the city of Seattle would be the only organization with enough wealth to establish such a facility as I'd seen.

The city seems to've come a long ways since the mono economy of Boeings, whose advances or declines gave Puget Sound generally such a feast or famine economy; until Mircosoft, Bill Gates et al came along. People tout Seattle's "livability" which is nice if you can afford the place; where gentrification is probably as rampant as any place else in the country if not more so.*

I was really shocked first seeing that automated bicycle facility, that seemed impossibly complex; though perhaps simply the "new" to someone now getting increasingly geriatric, is more my getting old with too little forward facing imagination any more. While I'm also willing to presume, "only in Seattle" or elsewhere with enough local wealth and demand to support something that fancy?

As a big time port town part of the Asian rim; you can sometimes get the impression that part of Seattle is somehow owned and controlled by Asian "white" supremacists, like economically successful Japanese or Chinese. Certainly in no shortage at either The Green Tortoise Hostel, or the Hostel at the American Hotel in Seattle's Chinatown aka "The International District" nearby-both of which I enjoy spending nights at.

*I think Seattle's freeways are considered some of the worst in the country; while mass transportation there is currently in that's infancy, which could've been instituted when the freeway through town was built and more progressive types wanted to put the freeway underground so as to preserve valuable city real estate.

The big land rush, of people moving there for the "livability" began in the '80s with a flood of outsiders trying to escape other places deemed less attractive elsewhere; which is what soon enough made the antiquated freeways and lack of good mass transit so evidently a problem.

I've read cartoonist Lynda Berry commenting negatively about what "outsiders" have done to her town; with a sort of top heavy feeling commitment to the arts for instance, driving a lot of sucking up to the local plutocracy. So that a couple women saxophonists of my acquaintance famed in Seattle; ultimately relocated to New York city, where i guess there's a lot more diversity and chances to play in more varied and interesting settings?

bobstad

That's funny; I've never gotten into Costco. Sort of the Walmart's of another class in society?

A person seems to have to make such huge purchases at Costco; and the membership demand, seems to mean you have to orient towards shopping there nearly exclusively? I know in Eureka, CA where I'd often pass by that Cosco; the lines for gasoline could be extremely long and looked like a nuisance to have to put up with.

I don't like Walmart, though I'm such a low-income person; when I shop there this annoys them, as all my purchases are low ticket items they no doubt loose money on as loss leaders.

What's tough, is I'd always presumed no one would start legally demanding I wear a helmet riding my bike; so am nearly wholly uninformed about them. Except, they seem to defeat the purposes of the other bicycling headgear I've taken my whole lifetime of cycling to develop my riding habits around.

A good bill for keeping the rain out of my eyes, is absolutely essential, many helmets seem to lack; while nearly as essential is keeping my balding head warm, when even as a youth my hair was very fine and likely didn't provide much warmth even then.

I'll tell you one habit, as a writer I've tried to institute since an activist friend suggested this; to try to avoid using brand names identifying things, and instead give the generic equivalent. Thus, instead of Costco; "large member only, discount department store-devoted to quantity sales only." I mean, as cannibalistic as corporations get; we may end up with towns-and those likely already exist, with only a Walmart or perhaps one of those and a Costco. K-Mart used to seem likely to thrive indefinitely; though now almost a nonentity following bankruptcy.

I just read of a town of 250, 000 people in Texas; considered to be the largest place in the country, without a bookstore. Wonder what their libraries are like; whose name I'd have to guess at, since I've forgotten where I read that. I'd hate to be wrong, and have people feel irked.

One thing I feel people who are against socialism don't realize, is that private enterprise and capitalism aren't synonymous. If some balance can't be effectively struck between the two; such things as organized crime seem inevitable. My late father, a cynical and intelligent pharmacist; always insisted the only way to beat corruption and crime in the drug industry, and the sale of illicit drugs too; was to eliminate any and all controls of any types of drugs.

My late and early mentor John Patric, in his single page weekly newspaper; used to say the problem with democracy was that votes were counted not weighed. I'm sure he was enough of a cynic to appreciate the double meaning of that. In another article in a different issue; he'd proclaimed of himself: "At the age of sixty eight, my sole ambition is to become the world's greatest general nuisance" which for awhile I'd sometimes take to be something he'd bequeathed to me, as a life goal too.

Though now I'm more convinced there are better things; if also still feeling generally, people do need to master their nuisance value effectively, and manage that well. Patric was pretty unique; like a Huck Finn with a Ph.D. in his youth, later combined with very low income versions of both Ralph Nader and Mark Twain.

His most famed book Yankee Hobo in the Orient; has one tale about meeting a Japanese bicycle salesman, trying to sell Japanese made bicycles to people who'd market them in this country-before the second world war. Then, the problem was their making bicycles of good enough quality people in the west would buy them; as the west had long abused Japan almost as if a colony or worse.

Loose Chain

Bobstad, I could not wade through all of that. I saw a sign, the topic was 3D printing. It asked the question, how will you plan for a world without warehouses? My thought then is how will we plan for a world without factories? I think the real question is how to plan for when people are obsolete. How will we live? Will the machines create and share wealth? How will it be distributed and what is the value of something that can be printed by a machine, over and over?

What will people do when people are obsolete and the work they do is obsolete?

And while this technology is in it's pre-infancy, it will change the world as we know it. What I gleaned from your two long posts is, well, obsolete.

bobstad

Hey,

Thanks to everyone who replied here; since the way I write ends up so verbose.

I've read one of the most important skills writing, is knowing what to leave out-while when I'm posting as I have here, probably letting my thoughts set a day or two/and I'd leave off much, which isn't to any specific point?

Otherwise, I'm prone to "think out loud" so to speak. Amidst what, lay the actual points of interest; the rest of my contemplation references.

no1mad 

Well, if you're aiming to talk the pro/con of helmet use and/or MHL (Mandatory Helmet Law), that is what the Helmet sticky in A & S is for.

However, if your intent is to elicit support for a forum dedicated the purchasing of helmets- like feedback on fit/comfort for any given model- post in User Assistance/Forum Suggestions.

Honestly, though, it is doubtful that a separate forum will come to fruition, since there are those that will take a perfectly good discussion and turn into a heated debate about pro/con/MDL.

CbadRider

We have a long-running thread in Advocacy & Safety just for helmet discussion. The discussion gets very heated so it is confined to a single thread to keep all of the arguments in one place.

This thread will now be closed.