MinnMan

I don't think this is a "that guy" moment at all. Brining one's own parts to the service dept. of an LBS is perfectly normal, and was long before the supply-chain crisis.

bblair

ok, thanks.

Another one: last spring I went into the shop to buy a new cassette and chain. I know I can buy online, but I'd rather give my local shop the business. Of course, none in stock and a 3 month wait. So, he went online and found the parts at a popular site and told me to just get that. I suggested that he order it, add a fair markup and sell it to me. "Can't do that." So I went home and ordered myself.

Koyote

You're not "that guy." You're the opposite of "that guy."

Kai Winters

LBS ordering their parts from the wholesalers also get free shipping when the order exceeds X $ so they can buy quite a few parts at no shipping whereas if you or they have to buy it as a 'one off' item they have to pay shipping and the customer should bear that cost burden.
That is how we do it at the shop I work. Most are OK with that if the alternative is having to wait several weeks or months to get the part from our usual sources.
We also install parts brought in from our customers. Sometimes that particular part is hard to get and requires a lot of internet searching which means a shop may be paying someone who spends an hour or two trying to find a part. We run into that a lot on older mech hangers and especially some ebikes which are internet only buys.
I recently did a bike rebuild converting a mech bike to a Di2 11 speed. The customer bought all the parts online and brought them to us. We had to strip the bike down to the frame and rebuild it with his parts. He made a few mistakes that cost him both time and money. He bought mech brake shifters instead of hydro so which he decided to keep so he had to buy mech calipers. He bought the wrong battery and couldn't find the correct one online but lucky for him we had one in stock. He also bought the wrong length wires, several of them were too short. Again lucky for him we had some in stock and also a connector.
He wound up spending more than he budgeted for because of his mistakes, which we would have avoided for him if he went through us from the beginning even if we had to buy the parts singly and pay shipping. Some of his parts were purchased from England and the shipping to send them back isn't worth it so he is going to sell them on ebay...losing money. Add to that the several phone calls from us telling him another part wasn't correct was disheartening for the customer.
In the end the build was completed successfully and works like a dream and the customer is super satisfied but it was not easy for him or us.
It also took me more time than it should have because I had to stop to figure out what was wrong, search to see if we had the part, call the customer to speak about the problem, look for the part online unless the customer did it, wait for the part, etc.
Builds like this are now going to cost more because the shop can't afford to pay me an extra hour or two overall when the margins are small to begin with. This shop lost money on this build because we stuck to our standard rates but we won't do that again.
This happens a lot in local shops because most customers, even knowledgeable ones often order the wrong part and we get stuck with the lost time having to sort it out and make it right. Our rates are now going up to reflect this.
You certainly don't get away with it when bringing your car in for work especially upgrades, you pay by the hour and it is not cheap.

unterhausen

I don't think there are too many LBS that would fault you for buying online when they can't get the parts in these difficult times. My LBS was a bit of an outlier in that they didn't really have a problem installing mail order parts as long as you ordered the right thing. OTOH, some people expect the shop to fix it when they bring in something that wouldn't work, and that definitely makes those people "that guy."

I know a lot of shops do fixed price labor, but it really should be like a car shop, by the hour. Especially if the customer supplies the parts, they almost always get something wrong. When I worked as a mechanic, we did fixed price tune ups and overhauls and it definitely lost money on a lot of bikes. And we didn't turn away any bike, no matter how unlikely it was that we were going to get it to a condition we could be proud of. These are reasons why bike repair is a subsistence career. Brett Flemming from EVT gives seminars for repair shops and charging properly for your time is one of the issues he covers.

chaadster

The most amazing thing in all this discussion is that these issues have existed for at least 35 years, since the days of Nashbar mail order catalogs, yet in all that time, bike shop still haven’t figured it out.

It’s weird (from a biz perspective) and unfortunate (from a community perspective).

Kai Winters

Oh the shops have figured it out...well most of them imo...the problem is trying to keep customers and generate income more than subsistence and make a profit.
Shops offer 'specials' like free tuneup with bike purchase, etc etc etc because they are hoping most customers will buy some accessory, etc. when they bring their bike in.
A skilled mechanic can adjust brakes, derailleurs, etc. in a very short time providing there is nothing wrong...bent mech hanger, damaged part, etc. and if the customer buys some bar wrap, water bottle, etc. the shop makes a decent profit on the accessory so everyone wins.
I remember several instances in a shop I worked in several decades ago where a customer wanted a new rear mech, we had it in stock but he could get it at Nashbar for about 1/3 less and bought it there then brought in his bike to have us install it. We told him the shop rate for installation of a part not purchased from us was double the price if he bought the part from us...he was angry and decided to do it himself...he did it incorrectly and we wound up doing it for him at a higher cost because it now required cable and housing. Nobody won because the customer felt ripped off and we felt used.
Same customer came in another time looking for Sidi shoes which we were a dealer for. I spent over an hour with him giving him shoes to try on, etc. He left without buying them then had the balls to come in a couple of weeks later with the same shoes he bought at Nashbar...they were the only show in town back then...bragging about how they cost him 25% less and he wanted us to put on the cleats he also bought at Nashbar...we quoted him a price he didn't like, he told us we were thieves, the owner disinvited him from coming into our shop anymore. Again nobody won and everybody was angry and upset.
It's not easy being in the bike biz...

Juan Foote

People tend to forget that there is a convenience cost involved as well. It isn't as if you can "try out" that bike you want online. Being able to walk into a shop and touch, feel, test a part has its own inherent value. It is basically at a point now where you just have to guess and hope the size you select is right. None of the local shops here will actually have a bike shipped in for a test ride, you have to buy it. The solution is to have them search for a shop that does have it and hope it's within a reasonable driving distance.

I have ordered a few things from BD based solely on the sizing charts they have available. Most often I run into just a bit small or just a bit big. Most often, small can be dealt with, but too big is another animal.

unterhausen

I'm curious what your solution is. The only solution I know of is to make it worthwhile for your customers to shop at your store. That's never going to make the price-sensitive online shoppers happy, but most people know they don't know enough to do everything themselves. Over time, I'm positive I have saved money going to my LBS. If all you are doing is buying groupsets and pre-built wheels, this might be different. I tend to piece together my bikes with what I want. If you stop paying attention to the industry for a year, everything has changed. It's work to keep up. I know people that have wasted a lot of money buying parts online.

All local businesses have this problem. They have to keep ahead of amazon somehow. People just assume online is cheaper, and the convenience is indisputable. Granted, the European shops cheated by becoming "bike manufacturers," and they were cheaper. I don't think that's really available to most online shops in the U.S. And most little shops in the U.S. are not really in the position to open a web store. Reselling QBP is a tough business, and there are plenty of online stores that are doing it already. Why is someone going to go online and order Di2 from East Freedom Trek and Power Equipment?

chaadster

I don’t have any answers, but there are definitely strategies out there which shops are already using successfully, As an example, the hybrid coffee/bike shop thing has done well in the markets I’ve seen it, so could more shops adopt that as a strategy to make it, as you say, more worthwhile for customers? In some cases, almost certainly, but similarly, certainly not in every case, so we’re really talking about a wide variety of solutions, not a “silver bullet.”

I can say that, generally, I think the industry went the wrong way in getting in bed with big wholesale distributors and going the company store route. I mean, I get that shops needed a way to handle the high capital demands of the business, but it had some undesireable outcomes, such as homogenization of selection, which not only lowered engagement with some consumers, but reduced competitive differentiation between stores, both online and brick-and-mortar. So, another type of solution might be to break (or just never form) the reliance (and contractual obligations) on big, industry players, and for stores to source more distinctive and locally-specific bikes and accessories rather than just lay out the same ol’ Trek/Bontrager kit that every other shop across the country does.

And bringing it back around to the topic of the thread, maybe another solution is for shops to more aggressive online shopping at retail to get stuff which they cannot through more profitable wholesale channels. As we’ve seen, that so many people are dissatisfied with service at their LBS in that regard suggests there’s room for improvement right there. Sure, they’ll need a company credit card available, figure out how to manage it and all that, but as you noted, everyone knows online is cheaper than the LBS, so making some money on those kinds of buys is not an issue, but the shop will need to figure out a regularized system for pricing not just the bits, but the whole service scenario from searching and ordering to installation.

Stuff like that is easier said than done, of course, but it’s probably the best path forward nonetheless. The best LBSs here in Ann Arbor, Sic Transit, has built their success on distinction, so they focus on what are called “third tier” bike brands, custom builds, and cool, stylish products often from smaller suppliers, as well as an overall store aesthetic that is more boutique than big-box. Compared to what I find in other shops, it’s refreshing to be able to go into Sic Transit and find something seeming unremarkable like tubeless valve stems in colors, but other shops stock just black ones. Small thing, big difference…I bought the Muc-Off stems in pink from Sic rather than going online, but even more than that, it gave me a reason to buy my new Wahoo stuff from them, too, because it supported what I saw as a local business doing real and good work for the local bike community. I don’t have those sentiments for my local Trek shop (though I try; they do support local ride events, so I wanna, but man, I don’t want black Bontrager valve stems…).

So no, I don’t have “the” solution, but I’m absolutely certain there are ways for bike shops to do better and drive engagement. How about a Consignment Corner, where customers can put their bikes up for sale, with 20% of selling price going to the shop?

urbanknight

That makes sense, but it still shows the problem of a local shop not being able to get stuff wholesale for less than the online giants sell for retail.

Actually, my understanding is that most car shops (especially large ones with ASE affiliation) go by some manual that states how long a job is supposed to take. If the mechanic can do it in less time, the shop just pockets the difference. It's especially amusing when you get a call to pick up your car 3 hours after they started and your bill shows 4 hours of labor. I suppose custom work beyond standard jobs are actually billed by the hour, but most run-of-the-mill repairs and replacements are basically fixed even if they don't say so.

bblair

Ok then, for those you that actually work in shops, why can't they get parts? I had 4 sources in a couple of minutes, only one of which was Amazon. Is it because the huge online retailers order in large quantities and therefore get first shipments?

GhostRider62

My local car mechanic is delighted if I source the parts like when he did an exhaust, control arms, etc. He charges me his hourly rate. I have offered to pay him more but he won't take it.

I'm gathering parts to build a light bike for an event next August. I tried to buy a Trek Emonda, but the dealer said they have people who have waited 3 years and best case is next July for an entire bike and that is very fast because I am getting the top of the line in the biggest size. More common sizes and mid-tier are supposedly impossible to get. How do they make money (?).

Once I have all the parts, it will take me about 3 hours to build the bike (I'm slow). I'd gladly pay a good mechanic to do it for me but this type of service does not seem to exist and seems antithetical to the bike industry's existing business model.....in other words, merely inquiring and I would be "that guy" even if I was willing to pay a large sum to have it done correctly

unterhausen

Too bad you don't live near here, my LBS does builds like that all the time. Unfortunately they had a falling out with Trek though

There is a lot of hate and discontent right now over this very question. Go ask your LBS owner, but you better bring beer. Actually I think they like cider now.

Rolla

That’s part of it, as noted in post #9.

zandoval 

Not having a bike shop in our town has forced me to buy tools I normally would not have and also to learn how to use them. Thank Goodness for the bikeforums and Youtube. The few times I have visited bike shops in big city (Austin) have been fairly disappointing.

It appears the bike shops I would feel comfortable in have now disappeared along with my Shade Tree mechanics...

One thing for sure is that the Bike Shop industry has a difficult business model...

veganbikes

The reason for not getting parts is a lot of vendors have been out of certain things or when they come in they are limited quantity and some shops can afford to buy those parts right away as soon as they are out or don't have dedicated ordering days. In other cases they may not have an account with that vendor or that vendor may not go direct without certain stipulations a shop may not meet or want to meet. If you have to sell $1000 in a given brands product to sell them but don't see many people asking about it and maybe little interest from employees or high interest but knowledge it won't really sell knowing the clientele you probably won't set up an account. With a billionaire like Jeff Bezos, he can buy whatever he wants whenever he wants from wherever he wants real or fake doesn't matter. We don't have that luxury of having that amount of money at the shop so we cannot just get what we need all the time.

Shimano stuff has been hard for instance because they have had factories outright shut down for long periods plus some open but at lower capacity for a while and that is not factoring in the global shipping issues. Plus their stuff is in super high demand and a lot of OEMs are getting product before it goes to shops.

In terms of the OP I haven't heard the shops side of this but it doesn't sound at all, at least from their perspective, that they are doing anything wrong. They checked with the shop and offered to pay labor, sounds like a fine situation to me. I am not opposed to those customers. The ones that we spend hours helping source parts and look over their bike and we might have even ordered their part they say yeah I will just buy it from the Billionaire and then complain about labor to install it, they are problematic.You are not that you seem like a reasonable customer who would happily be welcome at the shop I work at. I have told customers at some points to source elsewhere especially on their cheap-o online e-bikes as they can be a nightmare to find parts for and we would charge them to find them or if easy to find parts our current buyer might not order them with the same timeliness a customer could as they are focused on the shop orders and stuff from our normal channels which they know how to order from and accounts are already set up.

Now that shop giving away labor for life is really a bad decision for them, my old shop had that and well they are out of business probably not entirely for that reason (I know why they did or at least one of the reason they did). Labor is reasonably high margin though not 100% as some people like to think (overhead costs people...come on) so it is a good thing to not give away for life. Though shops that don't offer at least one free tune up with a new bike purchase are problematic and that needs to stop. I think after a year, you can start charging people but at least one in the first month or two and maybe that second one at the year mark is reasonable and kind of important.

boozergut

I remember years ago when I bought a new bike. The owner of the shop squats and says "you see this little knob on the back of the derailleur? "When your shifting gets a little off you'll need to turn this about a 1/4 turn counterclockwise". I wonder how many of those free post sale tune ups could be eliminated with a tip or two like this?

himespau 

Sometimes their contract says that they have to get the parts from QBP (or whomever) or they're in breach of contract and can no longer get parts from QBP. Sure, they're not getting parts from QBP right now anyway, but is pleasing one customer losing that venue to satisfy all their customers in the future worth it?
This seems to imply that my hypothesis about the OP's situation is correct.

ZHVelo

So telling customers to just order the part and we take it from there is any better?

wheelreason

LMAO.
At least once every couple of weeks "That guy" will come in with your logic above, it goes something like this,
That Guy: "That bike's MSRP is $7000, your cost is $4562.38, I'll give you $5200, and you'll make almost $700 as opposed to making nothing, should be a no brainer for you"
Me: "Get out".

himespau 

Better from a profit or relationship with an individual customer sense, no. Better in that they are not in breach of contract with their big suppliers and get to stay in business (assuming their overall model is profitable and their supplier can eventually supply most of what they need a a price that allows them to stay in business), yes.

ZHVelo

Potato potahto. The supplier will sure be as happy about this as about ordering online directly and sour the relationship in the same way.

mstateglfr 

That isnt at all the same situation as why I typed.
I actually pointed out that the shop could tell the customer they would need to charge MORE for the component. You are suggesting the shop take a discount.
Furthermore, your scenario implies stock is available on the floor. The scenario I discussed is when the shop cant even get stock from their suppliers.

In the case where they cant even get stock, they arent making a sale to anyone for any price. In your example, they have the potential to make a sale to someone at full price.
And to again reiterate- in my example the shop could charge MORE than they typically would. Just tell the customer that they can order the component and it will cost X because it is not thru the regular distributor.




You act as though my suggestion is a way to reduce margin or discount product. It isnt. There is no product to even discount in the first place- thats the problem.

Koyote

​​​As mstateglfr pointed out, this is not similar to the situation he posited.

I'll also point out that, in the scenario you described, you'd be forgoing $638 of profit. That makes sense only if you are confident of soon selling the bike for more than $5200, and/or you're afraid of developing a reputation as a discount seller.