Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Bicycle Mechanics
Reload this Page >

Can't get my rear derailleur tuned.

Notices
Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Can't get my rear derailleur tuned.

Old 11-25-22, 09:10 PM
  #1  
Nyah
QR-disc must die!!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 703

Bikes: '99 Trek 520, '20 Kona Sutra (FOR SALE 48cm), '21 Simon-Bikes mini-velo and a chromoly-framed folding bicycle with drop-bars and V-brakes, that rolls even while folded.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 199 Times in 147 Posts
Can't get my rear derailleur tuned.

I'm trying my hand at setting up the most complicated part of the bicycle that I'm putting together - the rear derailleur. Using the Park Tool video on this, I think that I've set the high limit screw - I can force the shift from 2nd smallest cog to 1st by turning the H-limit screw while cranking, plus the pulley seems to be inline with the smallest cog. However, my indexing is going nowhere. On this 9spd cassette, I start tuning at the smallest cog. It all goes fine as I make my way up the cassette, until I try to tune the shift from 7th to 8th cog. To make that shift, I have to turn the barrel adjustor (BA) so much that the system will no longer shift from the 2nd cog back to the 1st again. After I turn the BA back enough so that the chain shifts back to the smallest cog (#1), it ruins the shift from #7 to #8 again. Is anything discernible from this description?
Nyah is offline  
Old 11-25-22, 09:17 PM
  #2  
rccardr 
aka: Dr. Cannondale
 
rccardr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,852
Mentioned: 234 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2151 Post(s)
Liked 3,380 Times in 1,198 Posts
Need pictures and more detail. Could be several things, including a too short chain, incorrect chainline, wrong spindle length, etc.
__________________
Hard at work in the Secret Underground Laboratory...
rccardr is offline  
Old 11-25-22, 10:31 PM
  #3  
Nyah
QR-disc must die!!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 703

Bikes: '99 Trek 520, '20 Kona Sutra (FOR SALE 48cm), '21 Simon-Bikes mini-velo and a chromoly-framed folding bicycle with drop-bars and V-brakes, that rolls even while folded.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 199 Times in 147 Posts
I had the LBS tune this setup before and it was fine.
Chain has correct number of links according to Zinn Road Bicycle Maintenance book.
Crank is Shimano FC-6603 and frame is standard 68mm width.
The crank is a road-triple but setup as 1x, with the chainring at the middle location.

I can take photos if someone tells me what is needed in them.
Nyah is offline  
Old 11-25-22, 10:57 PM
  #4  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,768

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,148 Times in 1,312 Posts
Did it work before you started the setup or were there problems?

John
70sSanO is offline  
Likes For 70sSanO:
Old 11-26-22, 12:34 AM
  #5  
Camilo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,760
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 1,197 Times in 758 Posts
Start anew at the very beginning: Check the alignment of the derailleur hanger. Set the limit screws according to the manufacturer's guidelines without the chain and cable. Size and fit the chain according to manufacturer's guidelines. Make sure the B adjustment is good according to the manufacturer's guidelines. Ignore perfect indexing at first, but make sure the shifters will move the derailleur all the way from the smallest sprocket to the largest. Then adjust the indexing.

If the indexing is good, but messes up in the middle of the cassette somewhere, it could be the derailleur hanger is not perfectly aligned. So make sure that's good first thing.

Another thing that can make shifting in certain sprockets poor in spite of good shifting elsewhere is a mis-match between a new chain and an old cassette which is worn in to the old chain, or vice versa. Could this be an issue?

Good luck, but these things should help.

Last edited by Camilo; 11-27-22 at 08:50 PM.
Camilo is offline  
Likes For Camilo:
Old 11-26-22, 01:36 AM
  #6  
maddog34
Senior Member
 
maddog34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 2,974

Bikes: !982 Trek 930R Custom, Diamondback ascent with SERIOUS updates, Fuji Team Pro CF and a '09 Comencal Meta 5.5

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Liked 739 Times in 534 Posts
Begin by setting the limit screws... then attach the Shift cable... i set the high limit screw to a bit towards the second smallest cog as a tension setting aid.. once the cable is clamped, loosen the limit screw back to it's "Aligned-with-small-sprocket" position( i use one full turn in and out, usually).......( i also set the Barrel adjusters up with about two full turns from seated to allow adjustment in either direction)... Pull that cable TIGHT., tighten the clamp screw... THEN pull on the cable in an open area to Seat the Cable ends and remove any hidden slack... Re-tighten the cable tension some.... NOW begin checking indexing once you are certain there is NO SLACK in the cable before your first shift.... the shifting should now be aligned and should not need adjustments.

If, after all the setup, the shifting still doesn't work well, i'd be looking real hard at Derailleur Alignment, as mentioned by a few others.... Because THAT is Exactly what it sounds like.

Be aware that the Index cable pull distances are NOT Linear...they can vary from high to low gear quite a bit... and SRAM does not play well with shimano.

One thing i Don't see here is the Brand and Model of Shifters and Derailleur... this info will help us e-wrenches greatly. Please provide the brand and model of the derailleur and shifter.

Last edited by maddog34; 11-26-22 at 02:33 AM.
maddog34 is offline  
Old 11-26-22, 06:53 AM
  #7  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,358 Times in 2,034 Posts
Originally Posted by maddog34
One thing i Don't see here is the Brand and Model of Shifters and Derailleur... this info will help us e-wrenches greatly. Please provide the brand and model of the derailleur and shifter.
Yes
If these things are not made to play together all the adjusting in the world isn't going to help
dedhed is offline  
Old 11-26-22, 08:57 AM
  #8  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,934

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,366 Times in 1,915 Posts
Originally Posted by rccardr
Need pictures and more detail. Could be several things, including a too short chain, incorrect chainline, wrong spindle length, etc.
Also check derailleur hanger alignment.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Likes For JohnDThompson:
Old 11-26-22, 09:09 AM
  #9  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,520

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5218 Post(s)
Liked 3,564 Times in 2,331 Posts
good luck tuning the shifting. reminds me when I brought a bike to a shop one time for a while-you-wait tuneup & new chain. watching a pro go thru the paces with front & rear derailers was inspirational. amazing how quick he was. reassured me it wasn't rocket science & there are a limited number of variables. one just needs immersion & practice. I would love to work in a shop for a while. I know enough to make minor tweaks here & there & some light maintenance, but I appreciate & am willing to pay for professional help
rumrunn6 is online now  
Old 11-26-22, 11:52 AM
  #10  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,768

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,148 Times in 1,312 Posts
Did you attach the cable to the correct side of the attach bolt?

John
70sSanO is offline  
Likes For 70sSanO:
Old 11-26-22, 12:38 PM
  #11  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,804

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6099 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times in 3,260 Posts
Originally Posted by Nyah
I'm trying my hand at setting up the most complicated part of the bicycle that I'm putting together - the rear derailleur.
Since you say you are putting it together, then is this a frame that you are putting back the same parts you took off of it. Or is this just a frame that you got some parts you hope will work with it?

You only seemed interested in the limit screws of the DR. However limit screws are only for limiting how far the parallelogram traverses from one side of the cassette to the other side. So they really don't play much for getting your DR set up to shift correctly. That is entirely where the cable is held in the pinch bolt and the cable adjuster whether it's the barrel adjuster on the DR or a adjuster in the cable or sometimes on the shift lever.
Iride01 is online now  
Old 11-26-22, 01:06 PM
  #12  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,358 Times in 2,034 Posts
Originally Posted by Nyah
I had the LBS tune this setup before and it was fine.
Chain has correct number of links according to Zinn Road Bicycle Maintenance book.
Crank is Shimano FC-6603 and frame is standard 68mm width.
The crank is a road-triple but setup as 1x, with the chainring at the middle location.

I can take photos if someone tells me what is needed in them.
More important is what RD and shifters
dedhed is offline  
Likes For dedhed:
Old 11-26-22, 06:32 PM
  #13  
Lombard
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 573 Posts
When was the last time your cables and housings were replaced? How many miles on them?
Lombard is offline  
Old 11-26-22, 07:07 PM
  #14  
Nyah
QR-disc must die!!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 703

Bikes: '99 Trek 520, '20 Kona Sutra (FOR SALE 48cm), '21 Simon-Bikes mini-velo and a chromoly-framed folding bicycle with drop-bars and V-brakes, that rolls even while folded.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 199 Times in 147 Posts
Here's the story and the components that people are asking about:
I got the frameset new and added all the parts (everything new, except for crankset and some unrelated parts). Everything went well for me (even the wheel-build), with the exception of the rear shifting. LBS took a look at it and recommended a new R derailleur. I had them choose one based on my intent and had them tune it. They did a good job and I enjoyed riding the bicycle for a few days.

After that, I had to get a repair done to one of the threaded braze-ons, which required that I remove the RD and almost everything else. That repair was successful and now I'd like to finish this bicycle myself. I've never had full success in setting up RD shifting. My other bicycle which I've tried this has a stubborn cog which I just skip over when riding. Maybe I can fix that one after gaining new experience with this one.

Rear derailleur is Microshift RD-R43M. Brand new.
Shift lever is Microshift BS-T09. Brand new.
Cassette, 9spd, is a take-off from a new bicycle. I test rode that bicycle but upgraded it immediately to a different number of speeds.
Chain, 9spd, is new, the correct number of links and working smoothly.
Cables and housing are brand new, Jagwire.

I will now try to see if the built-in (CrMo frame) D hanger got bent.
Nyah is offline  
Likes For Nyah:
Old 11-26-22, 07:32 PM
  #15  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,655

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times in 640 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01
Since you say you are putting it together, then is this a frame that you are putting back the same parts you took off of it. Or is this just a frame that you got some parts you hope will work with it?

You only seemed interested in the limit screws of the DR. However limit screws are only for limiting how far the parallelogram traverses from one side of the cassette to the other side. So they really don't play much for getting your DR set up to shift correctly. That is entirely where the cable is held in the pinch bolt and the cable adjuster whether it's the barrel adjuster on the DR or a adjuster in the cable or sometimes on the shift lever.
Is it possible that the OP has routed the inner cable the wrong way at the pinch bolt on the rear derailleur?

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 11-26-22, 08:38 PM
  #16  
Nyah
QR-disc must die!!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 703

Bikes: '99 Trek 520, '20 Kona Sutra (FOR SALE 48cm), '21 Simon-Bikes mini-velo and a chromoly-framed folding bicycle with drop-bars and V-brakes, that rolls even while folded.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 199 Times in 147 Posts
Originally Posted by Miele Man
Is it possible that the OP has routed the inner cable the wrong way at the pinch bolt on the rear derailleur?
Nope, it's anchored between the washer-thingy and the part that the pinch-bolt is threaded into. It can approach this from only one direction. The cable housing is at the correct end of the barrel adjuster.
Nyah is offline  
Old 11-27-22, 07:43 AM
  #17  
70sSanO
Senior Member
 
70sSanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,768

Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1935 Post(s)
Liked 2,148 Times in 1,312 Posts
Originally Posted by Nyah
Nope, it's anchored between the washer-thingy and the part that the pinch-bolt is threaded into. It can approach this from only one direction. The cable housing is at the correct end of the barrel adjuster.
I think Miele Man is referring to which side of the anchor bolt, not which end. If you mount the cable on the wrong side, it will still be under the washer, but it changes the actuation ratio of the RD.

Basically the RD moves just a bit too much for each shift which compounds the error shifting from high to low.

John
70sSanO is offline  
Old 11-27-22, 08:40 AM
  #18  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,358 Times in 2,034 Posts
Originally Posted by 70sSanO
I think Miele Man is referring to which side of the anchor bolt, not which end. If you mount the cable on the wrong side, it will still be under the washer, but it changes the actuation ratio of the RD.
Figure 3
​​​​​​https://microshift.com/wp-content/up...stallation.pdf
dedhed is offline  
Likes For dedhed:
Old 11-27-22, 09:07 AM
  #19  
Schweinhund
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,393

Bikes: a couple

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 562 Post(s)
Liked 862 Times in 455 Posts
Almost sounds like a kink in a shift cable where it runs through the housing.
Schweinhund is offline  
Likes For Schweinhund:
Old 11-27-22, 10:19 AM
  #20  
Jeff Wills
Insane Bicycle Mechanic
 
Jeff Wills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: other Vancouver
Posts: 9,811
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 788 Post(s)
Liked 688 Times in 367 Posts
Originally Posted by Nyah
Here's the story and the components that people are asking about:
I got the frameset new and added all the parts (everything new, except for crankset and some unrelated parts). Everything went well for me (even the wheel-build), with the exception of the rear shifting. LBS took a look at it and recommended a new R derailleur. I had them choose one based on my intent and had them tune it. They did a good job and I enjoyed riding the bicycle for a few days.

After that, I had to get a repair done to one of the threaded braze-ons, which required that I remove the RD and almost everything else. That repair was successful and now I'd like to finish this bicycle myself. I've never had full success in setting up RD shifting. My other bicycle which I've tried this has a stubborn cog which I just skip over when riding. Maybe I can fix that one after gaining new experience with this one.

Rear derailleur is Microshift RD-R43M. Brand new.
Shift lever is Microshift BS-T09. Brand new.
Cassette, 9spd, is a take-off from a new bicycle. I test rode that bicycle but upgraded it immediately to a different number of speeds.
Chain, 9spd, is new, the correct number of links and working smoothly.
Cables and housing are brand new, Jagwire.

I will now try to see if the built-in (CrMo frame) D hanger got bent.
Was the cassette transplanted 100% intact, with all the spacers and washers in the correct order?

Did you cut the cable housing to the correct length? Does the cable run freely through all the cut ends? Are the ends of the housing covered by the correct ferrules? Is the housing seated completely in the ferrules?

Divining problems with index shifting can be devilish, and the devil's in the details.
__________________
Jeff Wills

Comcast nuked my web page. It will return soon..
Jeff Wills is offline  
Likes For Jeff Wills:
Old 11-27-22, 12:46 PM
  #21  
Iride01 
I'm good to go!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,804

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6099 Post(s)
Liked 4,730 Times in 3,260 Posts
Shift the bike of your op into that second smallest cog. Undo the cable from the pinch bolt. With the bike in a stand turn the pedals forward and allow the rear wheel to turn. If the chain shifts to that smallest cog with no issues, then it can't be anything that you'll cure with a adjustment screw on the DR. You can push on the parallelogram of the DR to shift back to a larger cog and let go to play with this till you are content with this idea and fact.

Of course if you still don't have the high limit adjusted correctly then you need to address that.
Iride01 is online now  
Likes For Iride01:
Old 11-27-22, 01:56 PM
  #22  
Lombard
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 573 Posts
Originally Posted by Schweinhund
Almost sounds like a kink in a shift cable where it runs through the housing.
This is what I'm betting on.
Lombard is offline  
Likes For Lombard:
Old 12-01-22, 03:43 PM
  #23  
oldbobcat
Senior Member
 
oldbobcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Boulder County, CO
Posts: 4,370

Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 508 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 331 Posts
Originally Posted by Camilo
Start anew at the very beginning: Check the alignment of the derailleur hanger. Set the limit screws according to the manufacturer's guidelines without the chain and cable. Size and fit the chain according to manufacturer's guidelines. Make sure the B adjustment is good according to the manufacturer's guidelines. Ignore perfect indexing at first, but make sure the shifters will move the derailleur all the way from the smallest sprocket to the largest. Then adjust the indexing.

If the indexing is good, but messes up in the middle of the cassette somewhere, it could be the derailleur hanger is not perfectly aligned. So make sure that's good first thing.

Another thing that can make shifting in certain sprockets poor in spite of good shifting elsewhere is a mis-match between a new chain and an old cassette which is worn in to the old chain, or vice versa. Could this be an issue?

Good luck, but these things should help.
Not exactly the way I do it (I install the chain before adjusting the limit screws), but it will work fine.
oldbobcat is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.