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Supplements for recovery/improvement for seniors

Old 11-11-22, 07:37 AM
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Kai Winters
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Supplements for recovery/improvement for seniors

Hi all,
I'm 67 and am still a very active rider and racer.
Those who use supplements...what are you using, purpose, improvements, recovery, etc.
I use hydro powders during a ride/event and GU, etc.
I'm mostly interested in post ride recovery supplements.
Any info, suggestions, etc. are welcome.
Snarky comments are also welcome...we all need a laugh now and then hehe.
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Old 11-11-22, 01:40 PM
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I eat weeds, for the most part. Too many to list, but one of my favorite weeds is coming into season now***, which I'm finding all over my yard. I usually just mix them into my soup, salads and rice, but I've been mulling over the idea of buying a juicer. Much more healthier than anything bought in stores, including so-called organic produce.

***Chickweed (Stellaria media)

https://draxe.com/nutrition/chickweed/

Chickweed: The Edible Weed that Supports Gut, Skin & Immune Health


What Is Chickweed?


The herb called chickweed (Stellaria media), also sometimes referred to as common chickweed, is a plant native to Europe that’s used for several medicinal purposes. There are actually several different species of plants in the Stelleria genus that are called chickweed, which are members of the carnation plant family (Caryophyllaceae).

The plant earned its name due to the cluster of white flowers it produces. According to the Wild Foods and Medicines website, stellaria means “star” and media means “in the midst of.”


Health Benefits


What is chickweed good for? While more credible research studies are needed to confirm exactly how it can impact our health, chickweed has a number of traditional uses in herbal medicine — including reducing inflammation, increasing antioxidant intake, supporting gut health, reducing pain and improving skin health.

In addition to supplying you with many valuable nutrients, it also contains compounds called saponins, which studies suggest fight bacteria, inflammation and have astringent properties. (Saponins are also found in similar plants such as soapwort, which is also in the Caryophyllaceae plant family and has many similar uses.)

Here’s more about some of the most researched chickweed benefits:


1. Good Source of Vitamins and Antioxidants


What vitamins are in chickweed? Stellaria species are rich in nutrients including vitamins C and A, B vitamins (such as thiamine, riboflavin and niacin), magnesium, iron, calcium, and zinc. This plant even contains a decent amount of protein, as well as a good dose of fiber.

Studies have demonstrated that chickweed contains antioxidants including phytosterols, tocopherols, triterpene saponins, hentiacontanol, coumarins, organic acids and flavonoids, which have the ability to fight free radical damage.

Because it’s a great source of vitamin C and zinc, it can support overall immune system health and protect against a number of conditions, such as coughs, asthma, allergies and bronchitis.

It also benefits skeletal health thanks to its supply of calcium and magnesium, as well as skin health due to its supply of antioxidants like vitamin C and vitamin A along with zinc.
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Old 11-11-22, 01:42 PM
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BTW, I'm 58
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Old 11-11-22, 04:33 PM
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Post ride there is a lot to be said for chocolate milk. Just about enough protein and all the carbs you need for the 45 - 60 minute window of opportunity post ride.

I use to use recovery drink mixes but I got to looking at the nutrition labels and compared them. So I started using soy chocolate milk though dairy chocolate milk work too. For some reason it seems almond and oat milk has pushed soy out of the picture for chocolate. Oat milk has none or very little protein. I won't do almond milk as it is one of the biggest wasters of waters for it's production both growing and making.

Currently I've been mixing protein powder and Nestle Quick together and making my own. Sometimes adding some more carbohydrate in the form of maltodextrin since it doesn't have a sweet taste.
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Old 11-11-22, 05:24 PM
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Muscle Milk
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Old 11-11-22, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Muscle Milk
Really? Interesting...I'll look into it.
TY
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Old 11-11-22, 11:16 PM
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Boost High Protein (20g/8.oz) Will only drink the Rich Chocolate flavor. 240C so not recommended if you are in calorie surplus. Not very sweet either I add 4 drops Stevia sweetner to a (8oz) bottle. Stevia is 0 Cal but completely natural unlike Aspartame and other non-sugar sweetners.
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Old 11-12-22, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Boost High Protein (20g/8.oz) Will only drink the Rich Chocolate flavor. 240C so not recommended if you are in calorie surplus. Not very sweet either I add 4 drops Stevia sweetner to a (8oz) bottle. Stevia is 0 Cal but completely natural unlike Aspartame and other non-sugar sweetners.
Thanks.
I too use Stelvia as a sweetener in my coffee.
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Old 11-12-22, 07:15 AM
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You honestly may want to do some research on fasting protocols. Some protocols can increase human growth hormone and testosterone by multiples.
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Old 11-12-22, 03:05 PM
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Nutrition is certainly important. IMO, it's a given. Fooling around with it will produce results, but they'll be small if your diet is anything like good now. Exactly how to fool around with nutrition is controversial because you can always find 3 or 4 opinions about any nutritional issue. I don't regard nutrition as "supplements."

In terms of supplements that work, there's HMB, caffeine, creatine, DHEA, pregnenolone, tongkat ali, beta alanine, to name a few.

For recovery, HMB is effective: https://www.bikeforums.net/fifty-plu...-days-ago.html
It's important to take it on the schedule used in the studies, in 1 gram doses: 30' before a ride or workout, 30' minutes after, 3 hours after.
Taking creatine with it is also helpful

I've heard people complain about weight gain when taking these sorts of supplements. Weight gain is always from eating too much, not from any supplement. I've lost a pound a week recently while taking these two supplements, just by continuing to train while eating a bit less. My wife says she finally understood why kids sext each other.
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Old 11-12-22, 08:04 PM
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Regarding protein supplements for recovery, protein synthesis in muscle increases by about 20% a couple of hours after resistance exercise but is double at 24 hrs. Moreover, it takes higher concentrations of circulating amino acids to stimulate protein synthesis in muscle than in the liver, which will rapidly clear them. All of this gets less efficient as we age, and the threshold for turning on muscle protein synthesis gets even higher. What I’ve heard from my favorite sources lately is a recommendation to make sure protein intake is adequate at meals and not to worry about getting that shake in within an hour after working out.
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Old 11-13-22, 04:38 AM
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65 this month. After my thyroid failed several years ago and I had cancer, several unexpected fractures due to osteopenia, and loss of energy, for the first time I started trying every supplement that sounded vaguely promising. There are only a few I've continued using.

By prescription I take 5,000 IU of Vitamin D a day, and calcium. After my thyroid and parathyroid failed, I was losing bone density and my D level was dangerously low. Interestingly, since taking D supplements, I no longer sunburn easily and can exercise in daylight without sunscreen. Supposedly a reasonable amount of sunlight aids production of nitric oxide and energy, so I try to get outside most days. If I'm too tired to run or bicycle, I'll just walk.

I use a little whey protein powder in drink mixes most days, mostly because I'm lactose intolerant and too much dairy provokes too much phlegm which causes breathing difficulties during exercise, and painful sinus congestion when I'm sleeping. I miss milk, especially chocolate milk, but my sinuses feel much better after giving it up. Occasionally I'll try milk substitutes -- oat milk, almond milk, etc., but they're overpriced and disappointing. I buy thickened coconut milk in cans. It's cheap and I can add it to water or iced coffee with a little whey powder and powdered supplements to make a palatable drink mix. Powdered supplements can often taste pretty awful. Milk based products covered up the taste. But so does thickened coconut milk.

I usually buy Body Fortress or Six Star whey protein because it's cheap and contains more amino acids, creatine and other stuff than Muscle Milk and other popular brands. Saves having to buy creatine, L-arginine, etc., separately.

I'll try various powdered supplements from Bulk Supplements -- that's the name of the company. Usually niacin, recently beta alanine, sometimes other stuff. I tried HMB for awhile and couldn't tell any difference so I haven't used it recently. But I might try another brand. Most of these have little or no flavor or odor.

I take DHEA most days, and occasionally pregnenolone, although recently just DHEA.

My primary care doc and endocrinologist were concerned about my testosterone and cortisol levels, and chronically elevated monocytes, but were reluctant to prescribe supplemental testosterone or anything other than levothyroxine for my thyroid, due to concerns over my history of fractures and family history of osteoporosis. Testosterone gets really tricky with age and has as many risks as benefits. Basically they just told me to accept it and get along as best I could. I wasn't willing to give up so easily, and taking precursors like DHEA hasn't seemed to have any negative impact on my twice-annual checks for blood labs, bone density scans, etc. If I could afford it I'd pay out of pocket for a specialist to prescribe and monitor testosterone, HGH, etc., but that's way beyond my budget and my insurance won't cover it. There's probably a legitimate medical field waiting to be explored (or perhaps exploited) in improving the quality of life for aging humans, but I doubt we'll see it accepted in my lifetime. Too much stigma associated with "doping" by pro athletes.

I used to take beta ecdysterone, an anabolic that seems promising (studies disagree over efficacy) with few risks, but the supply is too erratic. It comes from China and supplies and quality have deteriorated throughout the ongoing pandemic and productivity crisis in China. For now most of it comes from plant roots, and as with any such material it varies tremendously from one batch to the next. It's too expensive for a marginally beneficial material. I might revisit it if it's ever synthesized and developed into a more consistent product. Beta ecdysterone from plant roots like cyanotis arachnoidea smell awful and taste bitter, so it's unpalatable without a drink mix to mask the flavor and odor. Often it's supplied in gelatin capsules, which still smell bad. Ecdysterone is also present in some greens, notably spinach, although it takes massive amounts of the stuff to get any benefit. It's also concentrated in the exoskeletons of some bugs and shellfish, but I'm not aware of any commercial source that derives ecdysterone from bugs or shellfish.

Biggest difference for me costs nothing but time. Until just a few years ago I got by on very little sleep, 3-5 hours a day. Especially when I was caregiver for my grandparents and mom. But since 2018 I've been on my own and after developing thyroid cancer and other problems, I decided to finally focus on my own well being. Around 2020 I decided to resume jogging, in addition to cycling. While reading about the remarkable longevity of marathoners like Eliud Kipchoge, who's peaking in his 30s, I read that he sleeps (or at least rests) at least 12 hours a day. So I stopped feeling guilty about wasting the day by sleeping later, or going to bed earlier. I can say it's made a difference in my overall fitness, mental well being and recovery from hard exercise.

I suspect rest -- or lack of it -- is a bigger factor than we'd realized in the decline of some athletes. I've been a lifelong fan of boxing and pay attention to the training and habits of many of them. One of the secrets to the longevity of boxers like Bernard Hopkins (who was successful until nearly age 50) and Floyd Mayweather Jr, was that both were gym rats, never allowing themselves to become overweight or out of shape between fights. Meanwhile, I've noticed that the former wonderboy Saul "Canelo" Alvarez seems to have aged quickly despite being only in his early 30s. But he's a family man and celebrity in big demand. His recent bouts at super-middleweight and light-heavyweight were well above his optimal weight of around 160 lbs, and he looked slow, sluggish and tired. And he's known to irritate his trainers by wasting energy playing golf after his boxing workouts. While golf may seem like a game rather than a sport, for an aging athlete it's essential to get plenty of rest after workouts for their primary goals. Sure, golf isn't quite the same as boozing and womanizing, but it's also another 2 hours or so out of a 24-hour day when he could be resting and recovering after a boxing workout. And for most elite boxers, working out is their fulltime job.

On the same note, I've also quit taking melatonin daily. I might still take a small amount occasionally, but I no longer take 5-10 mg every night like I used to. It seemed to interfere with sleep rather than helping, and I still felt groggy the next day. Within a week of quitting nightly use of melatonin, I was sleeping more naturally and feeling a bit more alert the next day. Like Vitamin D, it's a hormone, not a "supplement," and can affect our entire metabolic system.

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Old 11-13-22, 08:55 AM
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Here is an interesting book on the subject of recovery. I enjoyed it. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=good+to+g..._ts-doa-p_1_13

From Amazons website:

A New York Times Sports and Fitness Bestseller

An eye-opening exploration of how the human body can best recover and adapt to sports and fitness training.


In recent years recovery has become a sports and fitness buzzword. Anyone who works out or competes at any level is bombarded with the latest recovery products and services: from drinks and shakes to compression sleeves, foam rollers, electrical muscle stimulators, and sleep trackers.

In Good to Go, acclaimed FiveThirtyEight science writer Christie Aschwanden takes readers on an entertaining and enlightening tour through this strange world. She investigates whether drinking Gatorade or beer after training helps or hinders performance; she examines the latest trends among athletes, from NFL star Tom Bradys infrared pajamas to gymnast Simone Biles pneumatic compression boots to swimmer Michael Phelpss cupping ritual; and she tests some of the most controversial methods herself, including cryochambers, float tanks, and infrared saunas.

At a time when the latest recovery products and services promise so much, Good to Go seeks answers to the fundamental question: Do any of them actually help the body recover and achieve peak performance?
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Old 11-13-22, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
Here is an interesting book on the subject of recovery. I enjoyed it. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=good+to+g..._ts-doa-p_1_13

From Amazons website:

A New York Times Sports and Fitness Bestseller

An eye-opening exploration of how the human body can best recover and adapt to sports and fitness training.


In recent years recovery has become a sports and fitness buzzword. Anyone who works out or competes at any level is bombarded with the latest recovery products and services: from drinks and shakes to compression sleeves, foam rollers, electrical muscle stimulators, and sleep trackers.

In Good to Go, acclaimed FiveThirtyEight science writer Christie Aschwanden takes readers on an entertaining and enlightening tour through this strange world. She investigates whether drinking Gatorade or beer after training helps or hinders performance; she examines the latest trends among athletes, from NFL star Tom Bradys infrared pajamas to gymnast Simone Biles pneumatic compression boots to swimmer Michael Phelpss cupping ritual; and she tests some of the most controversial methods herself, including cryochambers, float tanks, and infrared saunas.

At a time when the latest recovery products and services promise so much, Good to Go seeks answers to the fundamental question: Do any of them actually help the body recover and achieve peak performance?
Totally worth reading. There's so much noise out there, hard to separate out what works. I'm probably anti-NSAID to a fault. I read the book and found it interesting. I already did the stuff which she found to be helpful and some of the questionable stuff too, which I've stopped. It's always hard to evaluate N=1 experiments.
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Old 11-13-22, 12:50 PM
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NSAIDS for recovery = bad idea. I had no idea anyone was doing that **** anymore.
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Old 11-14-22, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
NSAIDS for recovery = bad idea. I had no idea anyone was doing that **** anymore.
Oh yeah. I see a lot of that. I know guys who take vitamin I before and after.
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Old 11-16-22, 04:47 AM
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I had to quit taking ibuprofen regularly after more than 20 years of taking it daily. It began aggravating my symptoms of psoriatic arthritis and psoriasis. After three consecutive days of taking ibuprofen I'd develop plaque psoriasis on my forehead, behind my ears and between the webs of my fingers. Within a week the skin would split. Very painful.

It's all that was prescribed for me in 2018 after I was hit by a car, dislocating and breaking my shoulder. The pain was far worse than anything ibuprofen can handle, but that health care system was more concerned about trouble from the DEA, and pushing their own pain management system that was morphed into a Medicare milking scheme.

Occasionally I'll take acetaminophen now, although it does very little. Aspirin doesn't do much for me either. But I'll mix the two and drink coffee if the pain is bad enough, especially headaches.

According to research, taking NSAIDs interferes with prostaglandins and can thwart the body's adaptation to exercise. Apparently the body needs to hurt in order to get stronger. That's what they always hollered in boot camp, anyway. But if I'm recalling correctly, those studies are of younger, elite, or very experienced athletes. It might be a marginal gains kind of factor that we mere mortals wouldn't even notice.

I have elevated monocytes and chronic low level inflammation, according to every twice-annual lab tests. Probably related to my auto immune disorder. Taking NSAIDs hasn't made any difference, so I was willing to discontinue daily doses of ibuprofen or even low dose aspirin.
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Old 11-16-22, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
I had to quit taking ibuprofen regularly after more than 20 years of taking it daily. It began aggravating my symptoms of psoriatic arthritis and psoriasis. After three consecutive days of taking ibuprofen I'd develop plaque psoriasis on my forehead, behind my ears and between the webs of my fingers. Within a week the skin would split. Very painful.

It's all that was prescribed for me in 2018 after I was hit by a car, dislocating and breaking my shoulder. The pain was far worse than anything ibuprofen can handle, but that health care system was more concerned about trouble from the DEA, and pushing their own pain management system that was morphed into a Medicare milking scheme.

Occasionally I'll take acetaminophen now, although it does very little. Aspirin doesn't do much for me either. But I'll mix the two and drink coffee if the pain is bad enough, especially headaches.

According to research, taking NSAIDs interferes with prostaglandins and can thwart the body's adaptation to exercise. Apparently the body needs to hurt in order to get stronger. That's what they always hollered in boot camp, anyway. But if I'm recalling correctly, those studies are of younger, elite, or very experienced athletes. It might be a marginal gains kind of factor that we mere mortals wouldn't even notice.

I have elevated monocytes and chronic low level inflammation, according to every twice-annual lab tests. Probably related to my auto immune disorder. Taking NSAIDs hasn't made any difference, so I was willing to discontinue daily doses of ibuprofen or even low dose aspirin.
It's not the hurting so much, though that happens. It's that the prostaglandins, which cause inflammation, are what heals the area. You make them go away and healing slows way down. Modern trainers don't even recommend ice anymore for the same reason. Inflammation is in your DNA for a reason. Don't fight it too hard. This is inflammation from stress or injury, not the same as systemic inflammation from diet.

Vitamin I can really mess a person up, allowing them to keep on doing whatever caused the inflammation in the first place, with not good results.
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Old 11-17-22, 07:29 AM
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The muscle response to resistance training has a critical inflammatory step. Block that; block strength gains.

More importantly, NSAIDs carry significant risks of accelerating atherosclerosis, leading to heart attack and stroke, and gastric bleeding. They should be saved for "bad" pain and inflammation, where they are wonderful drugs. Acetaminophen should be used instead whenever possible.

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Old 11-17-22, 08:58 AM
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I've been taking the HMB for a few months. Notice recovery time is much shorter.
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Old 11-17-22, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The muscle response to resistance training has a critical inflammatory step. Block that; block strength gains.

More importantly, NSAIDs carry significant risks of accelerating atherosclerosis, leading to heart attack and stroke, and gastric bleeding. They should be saved for "bad" pain and inflammation, where they are wonderful drugs. Acetaminophen should be used instead whenever possible.
I should mention that I do use ibuprofen for pain which I've guessed is from inflammation of a tendon sheath. That use works well and prevents tendon damage. If it doesn't relieve the pain, it's a misdiagnosis.
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Old 11-17-22, 11:09 AM
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I've been drinking tart cherry juice as a post ride anti-inflammatory. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6413159/
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Old 11-17-22, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I should mention that I do use ibuprofen for pain which I've guessed is from inflammation of a tendon sheath.
Appropriate.
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Old 11-17-22, 01:11 PM
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I was taking creatine + HMB but having never had any aFibs I got a couple while on this according to my watch. Creatine can cause aFib in some people according to some studies, not sure about HMB. Correlated or not? I'll probably never know.

Anyway I am back on only sleep & water & good nutrition now. I am generally good on the sleep and nutrition but I was low on water due to trying to avoid so many middle-night trips. Back on the water recently and am less tired after rides with more water in my system. More middle-night trips but I guess its just the price to be paid.
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Old 11-17-22, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by scottfsmith View Post
I was taking creatine + HMB but having never had any aFibs I got a couple while on this according to my watch. Creatine can cause aFib in some people according to some studies, not sure about HMB. Correlated or not? I'll probably never know.

Anyway I am back on only sleep & water & good nutrition now. I am generally good on the sleep and nutrition but I was low on water due to trying to avoid so many middle-night trips. Back on the water recently and am less tired after rides with more water in my system. More middle-night trips but I guess its just the price to be paid.
How do you know it was aFib? I've had Premature Ventricular Contractions (PVCs), which one might mistake for aFib. In my case, they were due to dehydration from trying to cut down on night trips. I drank a tall glass of water and they quit. I knew they were PVCs because I'd been trying to take my HRV and could see them on my HRV phone app and also feel them in my pulse.

There actually are no studies linking creatine to any heart problems. There are a lot of anti-supplement folks out there who would like there to be, but there just aren't any. Same with HMB. Here's the International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: creatine supplementation and exercise
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2048496/

That said, supplements which increase performance can cause athletes who aren't monitoring their vitals to overreach, which can cause heart problems. I've been taking my morning resting and resting-standing heart rates for decades and my HRV for over 2000 days, so says my phone. I use the results to make sure I'm not overdoing it and to modify my workouts if it looks like I might be.
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