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Ride For Your Life

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Ride For Your Life

Old 11-19-22, 02:51 PM
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1989Pre
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Ride For Your Life

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/l...1-a3b6a7beba99
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Old 11-26-22, 06:09 AM
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Nice article thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-26-22, 01:28 PM
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I believe that a better infrastructure for bicycles AND better awareness of inherent dangers by the cyclists themselves is the combination required. Any time a cyclist is near motor vehicles there is an inherent danger to the more vulnerable party. Cyclist education, KNOWING that there is the risk of death and BELIEVING that fact makes for smarter, more aware cyclists. Nothing will save unaware road users near motor vehicle traffic. Small reward knowing the motorist is at fault when you're dead.

I firmly believe that every bicycle should come with a warning label on the handlebars and an electronic "Agreement" button:

"Riding this bicycle has inherent dangers, and as the operator of this bicycle I acknowledge that I know the risks of injury and death, and accept these risks before I push down on the first pedal stroke."

Then a push button to Agree that unlocks the bike.

Part of the problem here is that far too many cyclists are carefree and careless. I mixed it up with heavy inner city grid traffic from 15yo to 60yo on a daily basis. I had thousands of opportunities to get hozed with right-hooks and every thing you can imagine motorists do out there. My laser focus was a result of BELIEVING what I was doing was risky and life threatening. Never got a scratch. It's always easier to blame something else. Introspection is hard and painful, but without introspection we are doomed to more tragedy. That lady getting killed was very likely the result of TWO people making a mistake, not just one.

Pay attention out there like your life depends on it! Because....it does.
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Old 11-26-22, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
I believe that a better infrastructure for bicycles AND better awareness of inherent dangers by the cyclists themselves is the combination required. Any time a cyclist is near motor vehicles there is an inherent danger to the more vulnerable party. Cyclist education, KNOWING that there is the risk of death and BELIEVING that fact makes for smarter, more aware cyclists. Nothing will save unaware road users near motor vehicle traffic. Small reward knowing the motorist is at fault when you're dead.

I firmly believe that every bicycle should come with a warning label on the handlebars and an electronic "Agreement" button:

"Riding this bicycle has inherent dangers, and as the operator of this bicycle I acknowledge that I know the risks of injury and death, and accept these risks before I push down on the first pedal stroke."

Then a push button to Agree that unlocks the bike.

Part of the problem here is that far too many cyclists are carefree and careless. I mixed it up with heavy inner city grid traffic from 15yo to 60yo on a daily basis. I had thousands of opportunities to get hozed with right-hooks and every thing you can imagine motorists do out there. My laser focus was a result of BELIEVING what I was doing was risky and life threatening. Never got a scratch. It's always easier to blame something else. Introspection is hard and painful, but without introspection we are doomed to more tragedy. That lady getting killed was very likely the result of TWO people making a mistake, not just one.

Pay attention out there like your life depends on it! Because....it does.
You seem to have absolved motorists from any responsibility.

Nowhere in your post includes anything that says motorists have to have awareness how dangerous they are and how they pose risks to not only vulnerable road users but also to other drivers and occupants inside buildings when they smash their vehicles into them.

When motorists take safe driving seriously, the risks and dangers everyone else experiences drop dramatically.
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Old 11-27-22, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
You seem to have absolved motorists from any responsibility.

Nowhere in your post includes anything that says motorists have to have awareness how dangerous they are and how they pose risks to not only vulnerable road users but also to other drivers and occupants inside buildings when they smash their vehicles into them.

When motorists take safe driving seriously, the risks and dangers everyone else experiences drop dramatically.
I believe we need bicycle law and safety taught in all drivers education courses. It needs to be tested as well. I'd go so far as supporting that educational requirement as a prerequisite to license renewals.
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Old 11-27-22, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I believe we need bicycle law and safety taught in all drivers education courses. It needs to be tested as well. I'd go so far as supporting that educational requirement as a prerequisite to license renewals.
I've been posting here and in other comment section for years that on-road bicycle experience should be required to obtain a driver's licence. The fear and backlash by drivers indicates exactly why.
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Old 11-27-22, 08:59 AM
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I've had some encounters on the back roads where drivers acted aggressively. I get the idea they think bicycles are in their way. Will awareness change their behavior? I truly doubt it. I just got a new sticker, it is based in the Gadsden Flag and reads, "relax, no one is treading on you". Maybe we need one that reads, chill out, it is just a bicycle. Nothing that I do requires a human life.
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Old 11-27-22, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
You seem to have absolved motorists from any responsibility....

When motorists take safe driving seriously, the risks and dangers everyone else experiences drop dramatically.
When pigs fly. Pie in the sky. Chose your cliche.

Sure motorists have responsibility. But they are generally stoopid, distracted, entitled, in a hurry, and operating some giant wheeled leviathan down a narrow road. The only part of this equation that YOU and I have any control over is what WE do. This is my point. If a road is treacherous, DON'T BE THERE to get hit. If you must be there, behave as if your life depends on it, because it does. In my city I see motorists and cyclists doing dumb things every day. Motorists in a rush, cyclists behaving as if God is protecting them.

Tilt the field in your favor. Motorists worrying about us will NEVER HAPPEN. Stop dreaming. Bike lanes and roadways are only as safe as cyclist awareness and skill level.
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Old 11-27-22, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
When pigs fly. Pie in the sky. Chose your cliche.

Sure motorists have responsibility. But they are generally stoopid, distracted, entitled, in a hurry, and operating some giant wheeled leviathan down a narrow road. The only part of this equation that YOU and I have any control over is what WE do. This is my point. If a road is treacherous, DON'T BE THERE to get hit. If you must be there, behave as if your life depends on it, because it does. In my city I see motorists and cyclists doing dumb things every day. Motorists in a rush, cyclists behaving as if God is protecting them.

Tilt the field in your favor. Motorists worrying about us will NEVER HAPPEN. Stop dreaming. Bike lanes and roadways are only as safe as cyclist awareness and skill level.
You don't even have to be on the road to get hit.

Have you heard of stories where a driver smashed his car into a Wal-Mart or McDonald?

In Toronto, we had a girl in a dance studio killed by an SUV.

Just because drivers by their nature don't care about anyone else does not mean we as a society can accept bad driving as an acceptable norm abd absolve them of all responsibility. The story of a cyclist in Toronto being killed and dragged by a driver in his Ford 250 has the police being undecided if charges will be laid. I bet if the guy would was killed had been in a car, charges would have definately be laid.
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Old 11-27-22, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
You don't even have to be on the road to get hit.

Have you heard of stories where a driver smashed his car into a Wal-Mart or McDonald?....
I bet your chances of getting run over in a building is far lower than riding a nearly invisible machine at roughly 1/10 the speed of thousands passing monster trucks while directly in their path. Motorists have to go out of their way to smack you in a Wal-Mart. Cycling on a highway where motorists have to SEE you and take appropriate evasive action to AVOID killing you sounds like getting run over on a roadway would be the default, not the exception.

Putting the knucklehead who ran over you in prison is fine with me. You're still dead though. There are actions you can take to lower the risks. I believe that a significant number of dead cyclists weren't alert or careful enough next to traffic.

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Old 11-27-22, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
I bet your chances of getting run over in a building is far lower than riding a nearly invisible machine at roughly 1/10 the speed of thousands passing monster trucks while directly in their path. Motorists have to go out of their way to smack you in a Wal-Mart. Cycling on a highway where motorists have to SEE you and take appropriate evasive action to AVOID killing you sounds like getting run over on a roadway would be the default, not the exception.

Putting the knucklehead who ran over you in prison is fine with me. You're still dead though. There are actions you can take to lower the risks. I believe that a significant number of dead cyclists weren't alert or careful enough next to traffic.
Nearly invisible. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. I pray to God that if cyclists are nearly invisible to you, that you have the decency not to drive.
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Old 11-27-22, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Sure motorists have responsibility. But they are generally stoopid, distracted, entitled, in a hurry, and operating some giant wheeled leviathan down a narrow road. .................................................... Motorists worrying about us will NEVER HAPPEN. Stop dreaming. Bike lanes and roadways are only as safe as cyclist awareness and skill level.
Hmmm. What does that say for for most cyclist then???? As the greater number of cyclists are also motorists.
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Old 11-27-22, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Hmmm. What does that say for for most cyclist then???? As the greater number of cyclists are also motorists.
Easy question! Many ( if not most ) cyclists are unaware of their surroundings and unskilled at riding a bike in/near traffic regardless of their motor vehicle status. "It can't happen to me!" **BLAMO**

For instance: In the city I use a helmet mounted rear-view mirror. Every car approaching from the rear I ask myself: "Are they about to right-hook me?" Are they slowing down nearing the next right turn? Speeding up to "beat me" there? Am I ready to take immediate evasive action i.e., hit the brakes and/or turn right with them? This is how I have avoided 1000 right-hooks over 45 years cycling in a city grid.

No mirror and wearing ear buds? **BLAMO**

It's obvious to me on a daily basis that most cyclists I see are trusting in the Lord. I don't deserve the Lord's help, so I keep my head on a swivel 100% of the time.
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Old 11-27-22, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Nearly invisible. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. I pray to God that if cyclists are nearly invisible to you, that you have the decency not to drive.
How can someone in a car "not see" a bicycle? How is it even possible? I am trying to imagine myself on the road, driving, and "unable to see" a bicycle. I can not imagine this, under any circumstances. It forces me to conclude that a certain percentage of these hits are intentional.
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Old 11-27-22, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
How can someone in a car "not see" a bicycle? How is it even possible? I am trying to imagine myself on the road, driving, and "unable to see" a bicycle. I can not imagine this, under any circumstances. It forces me to conclude that a certain percentage of these hits are intentional.

You'll have to ask Joey. The concept of not seeing a law abiding cyclist is both foreign and frightening to me. He excuses motorists for inattention on a regular basis, just as he exalts the rule of gross tonnage.
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Old 11-27-22, 02:18 PM
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One of the most dangerous pedestrian places I go to is the Publix parking lot.
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Old 11-27-22, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Chuck Naill View Post
One of the most dangerous pedestrian places I go to is the Publix parking lot.
It's ironic that motorists really should acknowledge how bad their driving is just by parking their car in a parking lot, getting out and walking to the store. The reflex to drive diagonally across the painted parking spaces is mind boggling and dangerous.
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Old 11-28-22, 07:11 AM
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Here there are pedestrians and bicyclists who are not participating in a hobby sport. For them they are walking or cycling for transportation. They are on roads at dusk and later. On one stretch, I have encountered them walking on this shoulder less road in black clothing and no lights on the bikes. One rider will abruptly cross the road as I approach to allow me to pass. Needless to say that I want to do no harm and it bothers me they are not more informed or aware of their dangerous behavior.
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Old 11-28-22, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
You'll have to ask Joey. The concept of not seeing a law abiding cyclist is both foreign and frightening to me. He excuses motorists for inattention on a regular basis, just as he exalts the rule of gross tonnage.
Have you not heard the same thing regarding hundreds of auto accidents over the years? Drivers pull out in front of oncoming vehicles on a regular basis because they "didn't see them." This happens daily in every jurisdiction of substantial size.

I don't believe these drivers get into such accidents intentionally. And while I'm sure some of them are exceptionally careless, it's a pretty broad cross section of society that offers this "excuse." Some of them really did look and somehow didn't register the oncoming vehicle. I've never been in an accident of that nature, but over the years there have been certainly times when I saw another car at the last minute and thought "where the heck did he come from." Hasn't this ever happened to you?

Although you say it is foreign to you, I suspect you've seen enough human behavior in your time to understand this is a flaw inherent to the species. I don't think this is well understood but there is some research on the topic (just a random abstract to note the nature of the effort):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35872002/

So yes, sometimes a driver won't see a cyclist. I ride with flashing lights to help reduce the chance of that happening. But I recognize it may happen nonetheless. It's not excusing inattentiveness, it's just recognizing the realities of the road.
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Old 11-28-22, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Have you not heard the same thing regarding hundreds of auto accidents over the years? Drivers pull out in front of oncoming vehicles on a regular basis because they "didn't see them." This happens daily in every jurisdiction of substantial size.

I don't believe these drivers get into such accidents intentionally. And while I'm sure some of them are exceptionally careless, it's a pretty broad cross section of society that offers this "excuse." Some of them really did look and somehow didn't register the oncoming vehicle. I've never been in an accident of that nature, but over the years there have been certainly times when I saw another car at the last minute and thought "where the heck did he come from." Hasn't this ever happened to you?

Although you say it is foreign to you, I suspect you've seen enough human behavior in your time to understand this is a flaw inherent to the species. I don't think this is well understood but there is some research on the topic (just a random abstract to note the nature of the effort):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35872002/

So yes, sometimes a driver won't see a cyclist. I ride with flashing lights to help reduce the chance of that happening. But I recognize it may happen nonetheless. It's not excusing inattentiveness, it's just recognizing the realities of the road.
Oh, I get it now. Cars are nearly invisible too.
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Old 11-28-22, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Although you say it is foreign to you, I suspect you've seen enough human behavior in your time to understand this is a flaw inherent to the species. I don't think this is well understood but there is some research on the topic (just a random abstract to note the nature of the effort):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35872002/

So yes, sometimes a driver won't see a cyclist. I ride with flashing lights to help reduce the chance of that happening. But I recognize it may happen nonetheless. It's not excusing inattentiveness, it's just recognizing the realities of the road.
Good one! Saved me the trouble of looking that up to post similar phenom.

"Seeing" is not just an EYE thing. Eyes are just windows to the brain. Light enters the eye and data gets transmitted to the brain for interpretation. If the "lights are on but nobody's home" in that brain, the object will not be "seen". Especially significant with unexpected objects. On top of "seeing" the cyclist, then the brain has to figure out what to do and stimulate the central nervous system to react quickly and move steering muscles accordingly. Might be split seconds at stake even if the object is seen.

Like when an 18-wheeler straddles a muffler lying in the middle of a lane. Driver in the Corvette behind him might see the danged thing but not knowing if traffic is next to him might not change lanes to avoid a car-car collision. If the Corvette driver just saw three other mufflers in the road five minutes ago his awareness might be much greater and change behavior to avoid the next muffler. In other words, he is paying strict attention now and LOOKING for mufflers, not following too close, etc. By the next day he'll be back to not thinking about mufflers in the road.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 11-28-22 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 11-28-22, 10:17 PM
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If someone hits someone else it is not an accident and never was an accident it was intentional. Choosing not to see someone and pay attention as a road user is on that particular road user not on the victim. Say you are on your cellphone or tuning the radio or whatever that is intentional you made the decision to do that and not pay attention to the road and other road users.

An accident is a tough thing to happen because we may not want to think in our head we did that but we did and we made a choice whether consciously or sub-consciously to not pay attention and allow something to happen usually bad.

I can understand some road users do not use lights including many cars which can make them harder to see but still it is on you to keep a look at out for them and drive or ride carefully.
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Old 11-30-22, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
Although you say it is foreign to you, I suspect you've seen enough human behavior in your time to understand this is a flaw inherent to the species. I don't think this is well understood but there is some research on the topic (just a random abstract to note the nature of the effort):
I am willing to concede that the decision to "not see" a cycle with rider could be somewhat of a sub-conscious decision, but it nevertheless indicates a dangerous state of mental disturbance and incapacity. The inability to interface responsibly with reality is basically the definition of psychosis, in-general. More research needs to be done on this, particularly when a motorist alleges that they "did not see" the cyclist in broad daylight. I am recommendeing a mandatory 60-day observation period for all who use this type of excuse and legal defense, in an attempt to guage both the cognitive abilities and the underlying subconscious processes of the individual.

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Old 11-30-22, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
I am willing to concede that the decision to "not see" a cycle with rider could be somewhat of a sub-conscious decision, but it nevertheless indicates a dangerous state of mental disturbance and incapacity. The inability to interface responsibly with reality is basically the definition of psychosis, in-general. More research needs to be done on this, particulary when a motorist alleges that they "did not see" the cyclist in broad daylight. I am recommendeing a mandatory 60-day observation period for all who use this type of excuse and legal defense, in an attempt to guage both the congitive abilities and the underlying subconscious processes of the individual.
I would think that legally, 'not see' the victim is an admission of guilt and negligence or carelessness.

Here is a video of a driver who clearly chose not to see or hear the cyclist.

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Old 11-30-22, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
I would think that legally, 'not see' the victim is an admission of guilt and negligence or carelessness.
Here is a video of a driver who clearly chose not to see or hear the cyclist.
That is a perfect example of criminal intent or neglect. The equivalent of a defendant or witness in a trial claiming that they "do not remember", or "can not recall" important events. Just because they say it, does not make it true.

Last edited by 1989Pre; 12-03-22 at 05:59 AM.
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