tyrion

I'm going to build up a "city bike" out of an old Univega Sportour frame. These are the handlebars I'm looking at:

Velo Orange Tourist:

Velo Orange Porteur:

Velo Orange Postino:

So I'm wondering about stem length. I haven't ridden a bike like this since I was a kid (I had some kind of 3 speed) so I'm wondering about where that kind of handlebar should be located. It seems like if the grip points are in line with the steering axis, it will be kind of unstable, and if the grip points are behind the steering axis it will be even more unstable. Is that true? Is that instability just accepted in that kind of bike?

I guess my question is "should I keep the grip point forward of the steering axis?"

Are there any guidelines for this (e.g. Sheldon article)?

Is "city bike" the right label for this kind of bike?

Vintage Schwinn

While I do admire your scientific approach to precisely calculating the "best" solution, I do believe that you are "overthinking" it just slightly Tyrion.
I suggest that you closely observe what classic vintage Schwinns, Raleighs, Hercules, e.g. the ancient classic "tourist"/"city-bike" 3 speeds have.

Temporarily, try a few free/trash-pile tourist handlebars, only to get a ball-park feeling of what they feel like, and then use your actual feedback to determine whether the ultimate handlebar choice 'NEEDS TO BE higher, like Sly used to sing: "I Wanna Take Ya Higher-------OR----- if the ultimate handlebar choice NEEDS TO BE wider or angled or tapered a certain way..............................REMEMBER though that the STEM that you do Choose To Use WILL MAKE AN IMPACT ON WHERE the handlebars END UP, as there are as you well know, a multitude of road-bike stem shape configurations, and also a number of beach cruiser (tourist/city-bike) stem shapes but those tend to be very close in range and size compared to 1960's/1970's road bike stem shape configurations.

Temporarily try as a TEST, old free/trash-pile tourist handlebars. Yeah, they will be STEEL ones but hey they are just "test-mules". Don't be afraid to hacksaw or heat with a torch and with a "cheater-bar", to BEND and SHAPE these trash-pile "test-mules" so that you can test ride it at least around the block to get feedback and the idea of if that shape/style is making it BETTER or WORSE.
..............Then once you get "real world" feedback of what you like the best in terms of where your hands ultimately are...............THEN BUY THE APPROPRIATE Velo-Orange handlebar that places your hands in that vicinity.
All the Velo-Orange handlebars are great!
The ones that you certainly have choosen as candidates are outstanding, but everyone is different and you , as of right now, do not have any idea of what type that you may prefer as it has been decades since you have even ridden something with tourist handlebars.
Tourist bikes/City bikes, .....ordinary bikes............who the heck cares what one calls them....................they were just called bicycles at least until the 1960's.

tyrion

Vintage Schwinn Good idea to try out some low cost bars to get a feel of the situation.

I just wanted to know if "city bike" was the right term just to be clear when communicating in forums like this.

icemilkcoffee 

It is only an issue in two situations:
1. You are in a road bike position where a lot of the weight is on your hands. If you have to take one hand off the handlebar, it could feel twitchy if the stem is short.
2. You are trying to ride with no hands. One of the self-balancing mechanisms on the bicycle is that when the bike leans to the right, the weight of the handlebars will cause it to fall to the right and thus correcting the lean. This effect is more pronounced when the stem is longer.

Ironfish653

"City Bike" definitely works; "Upright" and "Townie" convey the general style and intent as well.

I'm not intimately familiar with the particular Univega you're converting, but a lot of those late-boom-era sport/touring bikes had pretty relaxed HT angles and long- trail forks, so they're pretty lenient in the handling department.
May not be as critical of a measurement as you think.

If you want to test for the ideal fit / balance, I'd actually try a different approach:
Select the bar you want (width, sweep, rise) and mount it with a quill adapter and a "modern" 1-1/8" / 31.8 stem. This will let you play around with it a lot more than traditional stems; modern removable - faceplate stems are way easier to swap when you're trying to get the reach right, as you can swap stems without removing grips/tape and lever/controls.

Quill adapters can be pretty inexpensive, and stems can be had nearly free (your LBS probably has a box full of take-offs for doing fittings, that they'll probably let you go through for a few bucks.

Once you get the measurements right, then you can order the VO or Technomic to get the look right

tyrion

I'm going for something like this. This frame looks exactly like mine except mine's bigger. My frame was designed for 27" wheels but I'll be using 700c.

nick_a

I recently had my Schwinn Super Sport set up with Postino bars and thumbies, not unlike the picture you've provided. They're lovely but certainly on the narrower side compared to other swept bars I've ridden, which makes the steep head tube angle feel quite zippy and responsive compared to the previous setup with drop bars.

79pmooney

FIFY Been doing this 50 years on my city bikes. My tires have been mostly small but I spent years in snow country without a car. That solution kept snow tires as options without taking the fenders off. (A real blessing on salt roads.)

Edit: I like the cheap bars from a coop option to dial things in! Blow torch for fine tuning!

tFUnK

I can those townie bars or urban bars. I wouldn't worry too much about the grips being behind the steering axis - it may feel weird at first but your body will adapt to it.

Gresp15C

No, No, and No.

All of my bikes have upright bars. On all of them but one, the grips are behind the steering axis. I've not experienced any instability. I ride on all kinds of terrain except MTB trails that are specifically designed to be challenging. My bikes are set up this way for comfort, and to avoid aggravating a neck injury. My stems and bars are mix-n-match, not carefully calibrated, but just what seems comfortable for each frame. The Velo Orange stuff is fine, I have a "Tourist" on one bike.

Be conscious of the fact that your hands are closer to your center of gravity, if you're going downhill on a very steep grade.

Folks have ridden upright bikes for more than a century, all over the world. With that said, there must be a reason that the sportive riders prefer their setups, even if I don't.

squirtdad

i call mine a citi bike.....but with the postino it would be like a cafe racer.

I just put them on an rode and adjusted until they were comfortable ...no issues with steering.... just like classic 3 speed bikes

have done this on 2 bikes....super for just running an errand or filling a growler

I have used the postino and the the left bank bars from velo orange and the nitto promenade.

I found the postino to not have enough angle back to position my palms parallel to the frame and were not a comfortable. may not me an issue for you

ofajen

Here’s one of my bikes with a cheap, steel bar in the North Road/Albatross touring bar shape. Actual bar is the Sunlite Elson Roadster and it comes in black or chrome finish:




The photo is looking down the steering axis. You can see the typical grip position is about even with the steering axis and that is a nice, comfy, weight back position. That is with a 140mm stem. Obviously with a shorter stem the bars could come back further (or you could cut them shorter if you like).

These bars also have grip foam forward of the brake levers, so just about every part of the bar can be used for a riding position.

Actually, I spend more time with my palms across the brake lever attachment points, with my fingers gripping the front edge of the brake lever body. The other main positions are on the forward bends, either out of the saddle or when climbing.

It’s very versatile but less of a city bike look than your examples.

Even with only the standard grip location, I do find this more swept back bar angle is very comfortable. I prefer it to the less angled bars, some of which I have tried. YMMV.

Otto

SkinGriz

I would think it would not matter if the grips are in front or behind the steering axis.

I bet if you had a large bike with swept back bars that placed the grips behind the steering axis, and you had a smaller bike with the grips in front of the steering axis…

If your hands are at the same width, and the grips equally in front or behind the steering axis… you would not be able to notice a difference in steering response if the rest of the bike was the same.

retswerb

Funny you should ask, I just ran across this earlier this week: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_n-o.html#northroad .

squirtdad

here is mine with postino bars. don't have a pic how it is now with the left bank bars....may correct that later

SR Semi pro, with arabesque

I really like the tektro brake levers https://velo-orange.com/collections/...-22-2-dia-bars

tyrion

Thanks, that's helpful.

I guess people just accept this relative instability in exchange for the upright riding position.