Why don't manufacturers want to sell framesets? only?
#26
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You can easily buy a frame and fork from Ritchey
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Not in the business, but my guess would be manufacturers get a discount on components and have found that is better to sell a complete bike than a frame. Customers can ride the bike and it looks better on a showroom floor than just a frame. Also requires very little labor from the retailer to put together and the manufacturer takes most of the risk.
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Not in the business, but my guess would be manufacturers get a discount on components and have found that is better to sell a complete bike than a frame. Customers can ride the bike and it looks better on a showroom floor than just a frame. Also requires very little labor from the retailer to put together and the manufacturer takes most of the risk.
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#30
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Framesets would be be perfect for the manufacturers to implement online ordering and ship to customer's door. At the very least, ship to nearest authorized LBS.
#31
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I usually find that complete bikes are cheaper
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depends on what you want.. See the other Trek 2020 Domane thread. eg. Lowest priced Di2 bike is $6K (and that's with Trek's 2nd tier SL frame). The frameset, if available should sell for about $2K. I should be able to finish building a Di2 bike with this frame for a lot less than $4K difference if I wanted to.
#33
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I saw receipts from a major bike manufacturer who gets their frames made in taiwan (like most other companies). Won't name names.
It was something like $600 for a top end model they sell for $4000+
I honestly think Cervelo is just selling those components at prices they are able to buy from Shimano, Fizik, DT Swiss, etc and not making a dime on them. Full bikes are just there as an option cause some people would never buy a frame to build up a full bike.
$3700 makes sense to me considering above.
It was something like $600 for a top end model they sell for $4000+
I honestly think Cervelo is just selling those components at prices they are able to buy from Shimano, Fizik, DT Swiss, etc and not making a dime on them. Full bikes are just there as an option cause some people would never buy a frame to build up a full bike.
$3700 makes sense to me considering above.
#34
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Also another note on Cervelo, it used to be opposite where you could buy a frame and build a whole exotic level bike cheaper than their top end one. That might still be the case with R5, S5 etc.
This way makes way more sense to me from consumer's point of view.
This way makes way more sense to me from consumer's point of view.
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Is there really a way that (for this example), Cervelo is really making more money (on absolute basis vs. percentage) on the complete than they are on the frameset?
Similarly, the product of net profit and number of frames customers are willing to buy at typical discounts from $3000 exceeds that at other price points.
The two markets are different, Lots of people want a complete bike they can ride out of the show room.
A few people desire exactly what they want and are willing to pay a significant premium.
If you don't like that you can buy a stock bike and ride it as is or go through the trouble of disassembling it, selling the components, and rebuilding it.
Aside from the component and wheelset/tire add-ons.. you have the shipping of the components to wherever the complete is assembled, plus the labor to assemble, and then the additional bulk for shipping of the complete thru the distribution network and on to the dealers, etc.
While Cost Of Goods Sold, marketing budget, sales overhead, and other expenses set a lower bound on price, smart companies charge what the market will bear.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 07-29-19 at 04:14 PM.
#36
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Transportation and warehousing, legal and government compliance, marketing, R&D, computers/IT, rent, payroll, keeping the lights on and the toilets flushing in the office, coffee service for the break room....
All these need to be layered on top of the alleged $600 frame cost.
-Tim-
#37
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I just scratch my head as to why these pricing structures make sense to the bike manufacturers. Is there really a way that (for this example), Cervelo is really making more money (on absolute basis vs. percentage) on the complete than they are on the frameset? Aside from the component and wheelset/tire add-ons.. you have the shipping of the components to wherever the complete is assembled, plus the labor to assemble, and then the additional bulk for shipping of the complete thru the distribution network and on to the dealers, etc.
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Materials aren't the only cost of doing business.
Transportation and warehousing, legal and government compliance, marketing, R&D, computers/IT, rent, payroll, keeping the lights on and the toilets flushing in the office, coffee service for the break room....
All these need to be layered on top of the alleged $600 frame cost.
-Tim-
Transportation and warehousing, legal and government compliance, marketing, R&D, computers/IT, rent, payroll, keeping the lights on and the toilets flushing in the office, coffee service for the break room....
All these need to be layered on top of the alleged $600 frame cost.
-Tim-
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#40
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Or commodity mechanical Ultegra groupsets, alloy wheels and house brand stems are dirt cheap.
Build the it with Di2, carbon wheels and hydraulic disks and the price nearly doubles.
-Tim-
Build the it with Di2, carbon wheels and hydraulic disks and the price nearly doubles.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 07-29-19 at 12:25 PM.
#41
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-Tim-
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Sorry, my post was specific to DIY, not having an LBS build it.
R&A is in Brooklyn, NY and I might be on Long Island in the fall. I'm seriously thinking about stopping by their shop with cash in hand. The R3 frameset is under $2300.
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-13786
Stylish high-vis.
-Tim-
R&A is in Brooklyn, NY and I might be on Long Island in the fall. I'm seriously thinking about stopping by their shop with cash in hand. The R3 frameset is under $2300.
https://www.racycles.com/bikes/road/...frameset-13786
Stylish high-vis.
-Tim-
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Groupset:
Derailleur
Shifters/Brifters
Brake calipers
Cranks
Bottom bracket
Cables and housing?
Additional build kit:
Wheels
Tires
Tubes
Bars
Stem
Tape
Seatpost
Seat
Headset
Pedals?
Assembly
As mentioned above, additional shipping?
Keeping it all below $700 would be a tight squeeze.
#44
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The R3 is a little more relaxed with higher stack and less reach, more suitable for aging mortals such as myself.
-Tim-
#45
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I'd rather have a market where you could piece together your bike components. I know that does not make good sense for a company or an LBS or their agreements and volumes but I don't care, I am the end user. I am picky about my gears, my geometry, my crank length, handlebar shape and size, tires, bar tape. None even close to any bike on the market which forces me to spend more or compromise. I'd love tons of frame choices at good prices but they just aren't there. Frames and maybe forks are the single part that is missing from that Utopia.
Unrelated but even though the frame and fork are one piece of the puzzle, that name on the frame IS the bike regardless if every other single part on it is made by someone else. How many people would be willing to have a bike without the name on the bottom tube not purely visible for all to see. Not many.
Unrelated but even though the frame and fork are one piece of the puzzle, that name on the frame IS the bike regardless if every other single part on it is made by someone else. How many people would be willing to have a bike without the name on the bottom tube not purely visible for all to see. Not many.
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My Madone SLR, Bianchi Oltre XR4, De Rosa SK Pininfarina, and Giant TCR SL were all built from the frame up. And all were built with better pricing than buying off the shelf complete bike.
#47
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Same thing I always do since I only ride Campagnolo and I'm pretty particular about my bikes. You always come out ahead as long as you shop judiciously.
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I would. Just give me some kind of ID mark in a hidden place. I actually have 2 bikes currently with all decals removed. It let's the paint jobs shine.
Last edited by seypat; 08-01-19 at 04:42 AM.
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