Bmach

A big time YES,seeing there are Harley bicycles,

livedarklions

Fine, so you are fine with Harley Davidson Motorcycles on the MUPs, right?

scott967

In Hawaii last year they changed the law so low-powered ebikes (750 watt / pedals / 20 mph per federal law) are defined as "bicycles", so they can go anywhere a bike can go. Any ebike that doesn't meet that limit is a "moped" which can be banned from greenway by the counties. A new law was just enacted this year dealing with e-foot scooters. It gives the counties fairly broad powers to regulate their use (prior, City & County of Honolulu position was that they were classed as "mopeds").

scott s.
'

PrettyCurious

Do not judge peoples health conditions. Maybe they do not want a work out. I have a few health issues that are not apparent, but also none of your business. (not listed in my profile here) Many people think I am slim, and younger than I actually am. Anyway, it's none of your business what condition I am in, and whether or not I want a work out. and if there is no signage prohibiting my ebike, than I am going to ride it.

Steve B.

Yes, as I stated "Perhaps one of those two seemingly fit people on e-bikes had a physical issue, I couldn't tell. ". That much I get and have zero issues with. I also have zero issues with whatever version is pedal activated and am OK with this version on mt. bike trails as well. The versions with throttles are obviously illegal and a problem due to the power they provide and the trail damage I see them causing.

rydabent

Time to give up on banning e-bikes. They are here and they have won. They get more people out of the house and off the sofa.

bikebikebike

The Handicapped Parking people figured that one out a long time ago.
Similar enforcement isn't rocket science, but like rockets, you have to launch it to get any use out of it.

Inisfallen

Here's the sign on Manhattan's west side greenway.

It is, of course, completely ignored.

New York City is in kind of a weird state right now. For all practical purposes, we're un-policed. The police department is in full retreat, and officers are rarely seen. You'll see a few in front of the courthouses and places like that, and they're fairly visible in the tourist parts of Times Square, but that's it. You especially won't see them on the subway, and the state of the subways is a whole 'nother story, but anyway, reasons for the NYPD's non-involvement in city life are probably outside the scope of this thread. But it is a fact that the NYPD has decided that it will assume a different role in the city than in the past.

Now, while the police department deciding traffic enforcement is something they don't do anymore may sound like paradise for cyclists, especially given the department's hostility towards cyclists in the past, but it's becoming a real problem for us.

The ebikes and scooters have made the bike paths of the city (including the greenways) completely unsafe. Putting aside the pedal-assist ebikes (even though those too are prohibited on the greenways), they're out of control. The delivery riders are everywhere, and they have a complete disregard for all rules, including rules about which way to travel on the bike paths. I get that for these guys, hustling and scratching to get by (and probably getting screwed by DoorDash and Uber Eats and all the rest), time is very much money, but they're riding fast bikes (those bikes are essentially electric mopeds), often the wrong way. And in the dark. New York City is apparently a city of people who are incapable of feeding themselves, so everyone orders takeout, at all hours. And for some reason, the delivery riders don't like lights. Maybe they think they need to conserve their batteries as much as possible, so they turn off the lights. Maybe the lights burned out a while ago, and they haven't had time to replace the bulbs. Who knows. But an ebike coming at me, fast, in the dark, with no lights, is a startling experience, and it happens to me approximately a dozen times every night on my way home from work (I work until 11:00 pm, so I'm always riding home in the dark).

And then the electric scooters (like the Revel or Lime scooters -- essentially Vespas with electric motors) see the ebikes, and decide they can use the bike paths, too. Why ride in traffic if you don't have to?

And then the riders of internal combustion engine scooters (actual Vespas and the like, some capable of highway-legal speeds) decide that if the electric scooters can use the bike paths, they can too.

And a lot of the riders of vehicles that require registration and insurance don't bother with that anymore, since the police clearly don't care. And so a 250cc Vespa will blow by me on, say, the Williamsburg Bridge bike path with no license plates, honking his horn the whole way, as if the bicyclists are the ones doing something wrong by being in his way. Parenthetically, the Williamsburg Bridge seems to be the absolute worst these days, with actual motorcycles feeling free to use the bike path. The only thing saving us from cars using it is that they can't fit through the posts restricting entrance, fortunately.

It's a problem. And, as I said above, in the end there's going to be a reaction. Almost certainly an over-reaction. And we've just elected (well, not quite, but in NYC, for all practical purposes, the Democratic primary might as well be the general election) an ex-cop as mayor who made law-and-order issues the centerpiece of his campaign. And I fear crackdowns. There will be bad behavior on the part of the NYPD. Bicyclists will be targeted just as much as ebike riders.

It's not a good situation right now.

Inisfallen

I'm fine with Harley-Davidsons on the bike paths. They can't go fast enough to be a problem.

Inisfallen

It's not just jerks with mommy's credit card. For some reason, electric scooters (the standup kind) have become a fashion among the finance bros. And they buy big ones, with serious motors. Those things can go really fast.

livedarklions

And that is the proper way to do snark.

Inisfallen

Update --

The NYPD still isn't getting involved in policing this issue at all:

https://nypost.com/2021/08/05/scoote...ss-conference/

work4bike

I can't say I blame the NYPD for staying low.

Inisfallen

And maybe you've got good reason for that, but we here in NYC are living in a city that's essentially unpoliced. There is no traffic enforcement, including enforcement of regulations restricting bike paths to bicycles.

There is no police presence on public transit. The subways are not policed. They're full of aggressive panhandlers who all to often cross the line between aggressive panhandling and obtaining money by threat. There is zero enforcement of the mask requirement (and whatever you think of the mask policy, it is a rule, and should be enforced).

Gun crime has gone through the roof. Stores are openly looted, in broad daylight, by grab-and-run groups.

It's not good.

But back to cycling issues -- we're losing our bike paths. And that is not good for anyone. It's not good for cyclists, it's not good for the city, and it's not good for me.

work4bike

I am an outsider looking in, we don't have those problems down here and I'm glad we don't. However, I think the problem is with your elected officials (not just in NYC, but other large cities in the US), not the cops, they cops are just reacting to all this craziness they've had to deal with in the last year.

I do believe there is a need for some change in the police force and the George Floyd incident (and others) showed that need. However, so many politicians took it way too far. If I were a cop, I'd find another line of work. But like I said, I'm just an outsider looking in.



.

I-Like-To-Bike

I too am an outsider looking in. I would suggest that there weren't really that many politicians taking things too far on this issue, but rather a relative few who are very savvy in using prominent social media outlets, in combination with very good connections with influential journalists, Internet bloggers and newscasters from mainstream media to express their personal viewpoints about law enforcement.

They have been eminently quotable on the subject, especially when quoted (and misquoted/misinterpreted) by their political opponents and people with diametrically opposing views.

I-Like-To-Bike

I too am an outsider looking in. I would suggest that there weren't really that many politicians taking things too far on this issue, but rather a relative few who are very savvy in using prominent social media outlets in combination, with very good connections with influential journalists, Internet bloggers and newscasters from mainstream media to express their personal viewpoints about law enforcement which may, or may not represent the viewpoints of the majority of their own constituents.

They have been eminently quotable on the subject, especially when quoted (and misquoted/misinterpreted) by their political opponents and people with diametrically opposing views.

Inisfallen

I'm not taking a political position here (I won't say to which party I belong, or for whom I voted), but surely we can all agree that police departments should not be policy-makers, and that those kinds of decisions are, or should be, the role of the legislature and the executive, not law enforcement agencies?

I'm not a fan of our mayor, Bill de Blasio, and I, like many New Yorkers of all political affiliations, won't be sorry to see the back of him. But nobody should tolerate a police department (of any city, anywhere in the United States) openly deciding that they reject the authority of elected officials, or openly refusing to enforce certain laws with which they disagree.

The New York City Police Department isn't responsible for the actions of a Minneapolis officer. They are responsible for the safety of the people of New York. They're angry about the nationwide display of anger over the death of George Floyd? Too bad. There's no justification for them essentially having a hissy fit and taking a year off.

It's wrong. And the effects of their malingering are really starting to hurt the city. And perhaps this is a consequence of the fact that most of the NYPD do not live in New York City (and a significant number of them, perhaps a majority, have never in their lives lived in NYC) -- they have no stake in the health of the city, as long as it's financially sound enough to cover their paychecks.

flangehead

In my area the over-reaction has already occurred. On a popular suburban MUP there is now a 10 mph speed limit.

The knuckleheads are the root of the problem.

How can knuckleheads be managed?

rydabent

Again quit worrying about e-bikes, they have won. I see many every day on the local bike paths. I have yet to be hurt by one.

Inisfallen

Knuckleheads are the reason we have to have laws, and police.

Inisfallen

Glad to hear that's true where you live. It's not true here.

https://abc7ny.com/7-on-your-side-in...ruck/10771051/

https://nypost.com/2021/06/12/e-bike...-climb-in-nyc/

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/06...nd-safety-act/

bikebikebike

Eh. Mommy's retirement fund. Same deal.

They are too slow and unstable for the street and too fast for sidewalks.
Other than Darwinian forces, they end up in hospitals on insurance we all pay for

The plural of anecdote is not data.

LV2TNDM

E-bikes need two things:
1) A bell or other device to let others know you're passing silently. Most of us don't expect to be passed by another "bike" so quickly in the bike lane. Or how about a friendly "on your left?"
2) Special front lights. I'm expecting an epidemic of frontal collisions between e-bikes and drivers. Up until now, drivers expect cyclists on flat roads or uphills to be approaching at a relatively low speed. Well, e-bikes change this and I'd expect a lot of left turns into e-bikes. Perhaps yellow flashing lights to tell drivers "e-bike approaching!"

Other than that, this is a new technology and the kinks are WAY far away from being worked out. I support them, but at the same time don't look forward to the time where I'm regularly getting buzzed by yahoos on full suspension mountain bikes on the climbs. Makes it too easy for the yahoos to screw it up. Plus, our parks are parks, not motorcycle recreation areas! (And that's what e-mountain bikes have the potential to become.)

Inisfallen

Updating this, more than a year after my last post.

On Friday, I was on my usually commute to work (Brooklyn to midtown west Manhattan, via the Manhattan Bridge).

The usual number of electric bikes (not the pedal-assist bikes, the electric bikes that are for all practical purposes mopeds) and scooters (including internal combustion engine scooters) blew by me as I was crossing the bridge.

For the first time in literally years, there were police officers at the Manhattan end of the bridge, and they were stopping the ICE scooter riders and requiring them to produce license and registration. Which, of course, none of them can do, because they haven't registered (and thus haven't insured) their vehicles.

And so the cops were impounding the scooters.

It's about f*****g time.