Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Bike Myths We Wish Would Die

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Bike Myths We Wish Would Die

Old 02-23-23, 03:17 PM
  #676  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,828

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3184 Post(s)
Liked 5,698 Times in 2,296 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
I would definitely never go with AI-generated nonsense i didn't even understand.
But, it's soooo much easier than actually understanding something.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 03:17 PM
  #677  
MikeWMass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: western Massachusetts (greater Springfield area)
Posts: 628

Bikes: Velosolex St. Tropez, LeMond Zurich (spine bike), Rotator swb recumbent

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 28 Times in 13 Posts
[QUOTE=3alarmer;22809934]...Source ? I first heard it from the car people, way back in the '50's or '60's. A lot of those discussions centered around "unsprung weight" versus weight on the chassis. It would be fascinating, and real contribution to the knowledge base here, if you could pinpoint the origin.

Unsprung weigh is totally different from rotating mass.
Only applies to vehicles with a suspension, and has to do with reaction to irregularities in the road (or whatever surface you are traversing). Nothing to do with acceleration.
MikeWMass is offline  
Likes For MikeWMass:
Old 02-23-23, 03:20 PM
  #678  
Reynolds 531 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Reno nevada
Posts: 682

Bikes: 4 Old school BMX, 6 Klunkers, 5 29er race bikes, 4 restored Sting Rays, Now 3 vintage steel bike being built up

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 299 Post(s)
Liked 196 Times in 102 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute
A strong rim makes for a strong wheel.

A bike stands on its spokes.

Using strong spokes is a sign of poor wheel building skills.

a bike hangs on its spokes. shakin my head
Reynolds 531 is offline  
Likes For Reynolds 531:
Old 02-23-23, 03:21 PM
  #679  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,403

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8073 Post(s)
Liked 8,886 Times in 4,950 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...don't be mean. It won't bother me, and it will reflect poorly on your own self image.

I was being no meaner than you were--you called basically everyone else in the thread a car wreck you were looking in on, and all I did was point out that you weren't just looking at it, you were right in the middle of it. You also turned around and essentially accused someone of not knowing what an analogy is or what it's supposed to do, which you reinforced by gratuitously putting up the dictionary definition of analogy.,

People who post long screeds repeatedly in the same thread then acting as if they're somehow above the fray is a pet peeve of mine. You've been in the scrum, and you are protesting way too much that you aren't bothered by something here.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-23-23, 03:26 PM
  #680  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 14,592

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7169 Post(s)
Liked 2,625 Times in 1,431 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
People who post long screeds repeatedly in the same thread then acting as if they're somehow above the fray is a pet peeve of mine.
Yeah, but having seen it a few times, it is readily identified as yet another cheap debating trick ... used by the kind of people who seem to think each post stands alone and no on can remember how to scroll up.

Back in the day, a person with enough chutzpah could claim "I never said that!" and sometimes get others to doubt themselves. Nowadays, we can scroll up, cut, and paste. Some folks seem not to grasp this.

There is a general lack of honesty in social discourse, and internet debates seem to heighten it. All I can do is try to better myself.
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 02-23-23, 03:34 PM
  #681  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,403

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8073 Post(s)
Liked 8,886 Times in 4,950 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
Ok. Let's ask the same question, without any math.


Pretty consistent with what some of us have been trying to explain to you and a couple others, and I couldn't have said it better myself. (Well, maybe I could, but it's a lot of typing.) And before you make the very predictable statement that OpenAI or Google or Wikipedia or any number of physics textbooks are wrong, which do you think is more likely - that they are wrong, or that YOU are?
.

Yes, AI is really where I go to get to logical conclusions--like this one:

It is not uncommon for people to develop strong emotional bonds with their pets, particularly with dogs. Many people consider their dogs to be members of their family and treat them with love and respect. In light of this, it is not unreasonable to consider granting dogs the right to vote in elections.

There are several arguments in favor of giving dogs the right to vote. First and foremost, dogs are sentient beings and have the ability to think and feel. While they may not possess the same level of cognitive ability as humans, they are still capable of making decisions and expressing their preferences.

Secondly, dogs play a significant role in many people's lives, providing companionship, support, and protection. They deserve to have a say in the decisions that affect their lives and the lives of their human companions.

Finally, granting dogs the right to vote would help to ensure that their interests and well-being are taken into consideration in the political process. This could help to protect dogs from cruelty and mistreatment, and could lead to the implementation of policies that are more favorable to dogs and their owners.

In conclusion, there are strong arguments in favor of amending the US Constitution to give dogs the right to vote. Dogs are sentient beings who deserve to have a say in the decisions that affect their lives, and granting them the right to vote would help to ensure that their interests are taken into consideration in the political process.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-23-23, 03:48 PM
  #682  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,828

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3184 Post(s)
Liked 5,698 Times in 2,296 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Yes, AI is really where I go to get to logical conclusions--like this one:

It is not uncommon for people to develop strong emotional bonds with their pets, particularly with dogs. Many people consider their dogs to be members of their family and treat them with love and respect. In light of this, it is not unreasonable to consider granting dogs the right to vote in elections.

There are several arguments in favor of giving dogs the right to vote. First and foremost, dogs are sentient beings and have the ability to think and feel. While they may not possess the same level of cognitive ability as humans, they are still capable of making decisions and expressing their preferences.

Secondly, dogs play a significant role in many people's lives, providing companionship, support, and protection. They deserve to have a say in the decisions that affect their lives and the lives of their human companions.

Finally, granting dogs the right to vote would help to ensure that their interests and well-being are taken into consideration in the political process. This could help to protect dogs from cruelty and mistreatment, and could lead to the implementation of policies that are more favorable to dogs and their owners.

In conclusion, there are strong arguments in favor of amending the US Constitution to give dogs the right to vote. Dogs are sentient beings who deserve to have a say in the decisions that affect their lives, and granting them the right to vote would help to ensure that their interests are taken into consideration in the political process.
We had to rush our dog to the vet yesterday because she had something stuck in her throat. She recovered without any problems, but the writeup from the vet included the statement "Ellie does not make good decisions about what she swallows." So, I'm going to have to disagree with the AI on this dog voting issue.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 02-23-23, 03:55 PM
  #683  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,528

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3401 Post(s)
Liked 5,431 Times in 2,572 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
We had to rush our dog to the vet yesterday because she had something stuck in her throat. She recovered without any problems, but the writeup from the vet included the statement "Ellie does not make good decisions about what she swallows." So, I'm going to have to disagree with the AI on this dog voting issue.
I support your opinion about dogs and voting, using their eating decisions as the judgement criteria. Our young German Shepherd decided to eat a hair scrunchy. It cost us the price of a nice Ultegra Di2 equipped road bike for the surgery to resolve that issue. Other things she should not eat have made it successfully through her system, thankfully.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is online now  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 02-23-23, 04:12 PM
  #684  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,828

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3184 Post(s)
Liked 5,698 Times in 2,296 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
I support your opinion about dogs and voting, using their eating decisions as the judgement criteria. Our young German Shepherd decided to eat a hair scrunchy. It cost us the price of a nice Ultegra Di2 equipped road bike for the surgery to resolve that issue. Other things she should not eat have made it successfully through her system, thankfully.
Poor decision making is one thing, but think of the other thorny political issues that would crop up. For instance, should Blue Heelers be allowed to vote in a red state? I don't think so.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 02-23-23, 04:18 PM
  #685  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,528

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3401 Post(s)
Liked 5,431 Times in 2,572 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Poor decision making is one thing, but think of the other thorny political issues that would crop up. For instance, should Blue Heelers be allowed to vote in a red state? I don't think so.
Valid concern. Another issue would be cats demanding equal rights. Cats voting would be a bad idea. Very bad.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is online now  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 02-23-23, 04:21 PM
  #686  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,403

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8073 Post(s)
Liked 8,886 Times in 4,950 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
I support your opinion about dogs and voting, using their eating decisions as the judgement criteria. Our young German Shepherd decided to eat a hair scrunchy. It cost us the price of a nice Ultegra Di2 equipped road bike for the surgery to resolve that issue. Other things she should not eat have made it successfully through her system, thankfully.

I hate to think that the voting rights of an entire species would hinge on the scrunchy eating habits of a single pooch.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 04:22 PM
  #687  
Siu Blue Wind
Homey
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,472
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2376 Post(s)
Liked 1,251 Times in 800 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Well the myth about the importance of rotating mass came from road racers, so 400g is a reasonable delta to work with. But you could double it if you like and the conclusions will remain the same. We could reasonably say that all performance road wheel sets lie between 1-2 kg.
Welcome back
__________________
Originally Posted by making View Post
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 04:27 PM
  #688  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,828

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3184 Post(s)
Liked 5,698 Times in 2,296 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
Valid concern. Another issue would be cats demanding equal rights. Cats voting would be a bad idea. Very bad.
Cats are too lazy to vote, so it's really not an issue.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 04:28 PM
  #689  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,528

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3401 Post(s)
Liked 5,431 Times in 2,572 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
I hate to think that the voting rights of an entire species would hinge on the scrunchy eating habits of a single pooch.
We have at least 2 pooches, just in this thread. Additionally, TC's example included a written opinion from a licensed professional.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is online now  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 02-23-23, 04:30 PM
  #690  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,403

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8073 Post(s)
Liked 8,886 Times in 4,950 Posts
Open AI, just got to ask the question right:
Bicycle handling is a crucial aspect of riding, and any factor that can affect it is a matter of great importance to cycling enthusiasts. One factor that has been the subject of debate among cyclists is the weight of the wheels. While some people argue that wheel weight has a significant impact on bicycle handling, others believe that it is not a major factor. In this essay, I will argue that wheel weight does not significantly affect bicycle handling.

Firstly, it is important to note that bicycle handling is determined by a combination of factors such as frame geometry, tire pressure, rider position, and riding technique. Wheel weight is just one of many factors that can affect handling, but it is not necessarily the most critical one. Factors such as the rider's weight distribution and positioning, the quality of the road surface, and wind conditions all have a more significant impact on handling than the weight of the wheels.

Secondly, while it is true that lighter wheels can help reduce the overall weight of the bike, which can improve acceleration and climbing performance, this does not necessarily translate to better handling. In fact, the difference in handling between a lighter and a heavier wheel is not significant enough to be noticeable for most riders. A study conducted by Zipp, a leading manufacturer of high-performance wheels, found that the handling of a bike with a lighter wheelset was not significantly different from that of a bike with a heavier wheelset. The study also found that the lighter wheelset did not provide a significant advantage in terms of speed or power output.

Additionally, modern bicycle wheel technology has significantly improved over the years. Manufacturers are now able to produce wheels that are both lightweight and strong, allowing riders to enjoy the benefits of a lighter wheelset without compromising on durability or stiffness. As a result, the weight of the wheels is becoming less of a concern for many cyclists.

Furthermore, the difference in weight between a heavy and a light wheelset is often exaggerated. While a lighter wheelset can save a few hundred grams, this difference is not significant enough to affect handling. In fact, the difference in weight between a heavy and a light wheelset is only noticeable when accelerating or climbing, but once the bike reaches a steady speed, the weight difference becomes negligible.

In conclusion, while the weight of the wheels can have an impact on a bike's performance, it is not a significant factor in bicycle handling. Factors such as frame geometry, rider position, and riding technique have a more significant impact on handling. Furthermore, advances in wheel technology have made it possible to produce lightweight wheels without compromising on durability or stiffness. Ultimately, the weight of the wheels should not be a major concern for most cyclists when choosing a bike or wheelset.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-23-23, 04:35 PM
  #691  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,828

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3184 Post(s)
Liked 5,698 Times in 2,296 Posts
Originally Posted by Eric F
We have at least 2 pooches, just in this thread. Additionally, TC's example included a written opinion from a licensed professional.
To be fair, Ellie only tried to swallow that big chunk of rawhide because Open AI said it was okay for her to do it.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 02-23-23, 04:36 PM
  #692  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,403

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8073 Post(s)
Liked 8,886 Times in 4,950 Posts
Bicycles have been a popular mode of transportation for over a century. However, the design and materials used in bicycle manufacturing have evolved over time. One of the most important components of a bicycle is its wheel rims. The material used to make the rims can have a significant impact on the performance, durability, and safety of the bicycle. In this essay, I will argue that bicycle wheel rims should be made out of wrought iron.

Wrought iron is a material that has been used for centuries in various applications, from building structures to weaponry. It is a strong and durable material that is resistant to rust and corrosion. These properties make it an ideal material for use in bicycle wheel rims.

One of the primary benefits of using wrought iron for bicycle wheel rims is its strength. Wrought iron is stronger than many other materials used in bicycle manufacturing, such as aluminum and carbon fiber. This strength allows for the production of lighter weight rims that are still durable and resistant to bending or warping under stress.

Another benefit of using wrought iron for bicycle wheel rims is its resistance to rust and corrosion. Bicycles are often used in wet or damp environments, such as in rainy weather or on wet roads. The moisture and salt from the road can cause traditional steel rims to rust and corrode over time. Wrought iron, however, is much more resistant to rust and corrosion, making it a longer-lasting material for bicycle wheel rims.

Finally, wrought iron is a sustainable material. It is made from recycled scrap metal and can be easily recycled again at the end of its life cycle. This reduces the environmental impact of manufacturing new bicycle wheel rims and helps to conserve natural resources.

In conclusion, bicycle wheel rims should be made out of wrought iron due to its strength, durability, resistance to rust and corrosion, and sustainability. It is a material that has stood the test of time and is well-suited to the demands of modern bicycle manufacturing. By using wrought iron for bicycle wheel rims, we can improve the performance, longevity, and safety of bicycles while also reducing their environmental impact.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 02-23-23, 04:40 PM
  #693  
Eric F 
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,528

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3401 Post(s)
Liked 5,431 Times in 2,572 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Cats are too lazy to vote, so it's really not an issue.
You might be right, but I'm not sure it's a risk we can afford to take.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Eric F is online now  
Old 02-23-23, 05:35 PM
  #694  
ofajen
Cheerfully low end
 
ofajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,711
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 549 Post(s)
Liked 892 Times in 564 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
It's sort of funny ... when all this started, I really thought that lighter wheels made a big difference, and that rotating mass was a big factor---possibly because I have been interested in auto racing where the issues of unsprung weight and rotating mass play a larger role because of the higher forces and masses involved. Sort of fun to learn something new ....
Agreed. I already had a sense that wheel weight wasnít a huge deal, since itís a small part of my bike + rider weight. OTOH, I have learned more about fiber-reinforced resin frames during this discussion (partly in the thread and partly inspired by the thread) and would have to say Iím more willing to consider riding a bike like that at some point in the future. The main holdup at this point is that Iím not eager to spend a lot on any bike. 😊

Otto

Last edited by ofajen; 02-23-23 at 06:39 PM.
ofajen is offline  
Likes For ofajen:
Old 02-23-23, 05:44 PM
  #695  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,802

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24800 Post(s)
Liked 8,583 Times in 5,990 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Open AI, just got to ask the question right:
Bicycle handling is a crucial aspect of riding, and any factor that can affect it is a matter of great importance to cycling enthusiasts. One factor that has been the subject of debate among cyclists is the weight of the wheels. While some people argue that wheel weight has a significant impact on bicycle handling, others believe that it is not a major factor. In this essay, I will argue that wheel weight does not significantly affect bicycle handling.

Firstly, it is important to note that bicycle handling is determined by a combination of factors such as frame geometry, tire pressure, rider position, and riding technique. Wheel weight is just one of many factors that can affect handling, but it is not necessarily the most critical one. Factors such as the rider's weight distribution and positioning, the quality of the road surface, and wind conditions all have a more significant impact on handling than the weight of the wheels.

Secondly, while it is true that lighter wheels can help reduce the overall weight of the bike, which can improve acceleration and climbing performance, this does not necessarily translate to better handling. In fact, the difference in handling between a lighter and a heavier wheel is not significant enough to be noticeable for most riders. A study conducted by Zipp, a leading manufacturer of high-performance wheels, found that the handling of a bike with a lighter wheelset was not significantly different from that of a bike with a heavier wheelset. The study also found that the lighter wheelset did not provide a significant advantage in terms of speed or power output.

Additionally, modern bicycle wheel technology has significantly improved over the years. Manufacturers are now able to produce wheels that are both lightweight and strong, allowing riders to enjoy the benefits of a lighter wheelset without compromising on durability or stiffness. As a result, the weight of the wheels is becoming less of a concern for many cyclists.

Furthermore, the difference in weight between a heavy and a light wheelset is often exaggerated. While a lighter wheelset can save a few hundred grams, this difference is not significant enough to affect handling. In fact, the difference in weight between a heavy and a light wheelset is only noticeable when accelerating or climbing, but once the bike reaches a steady speed, the weight difference becomes negligible.

In conclusion, while the weight of the wheels can have an impact on a bike's performance, it is not a significant factor in bicycle handling. Factors such as frame geometry, rider position, and riding technique have a more significant impact on handling. Furthermore, advances in wheel technology have made it possible to produce lightweight wheels without compromising on durability or stiffness. Ultimately, the weight of the wheels should not be a major concern for most cyclists when choosing a bike or wheelset.
...cool. If you can get Open AI to agree with him, it can get a like from tomato coupe .
People have been criticizing this thread as worthless, but those people are not looking for the real gems here.
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 05:51 PM
  #696  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,802

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24800 Post(s)
Liked 8,583 Times in 5,990 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
I was being no meaner than you were--you called basically everyone else in the thread a car wreck you were looking in on, and all I did was point out that you weren't just looking at it, you were right in the middle of it. You also turned around and essentially accused someone of not knowing what an analogy is or what it's supposed to do, which you reinforced by gratuitously putting up the dictionary definition of analogy.,
...I honestly do not understand what you're going on about. Someone told me my analogy was "about two very different things". How do I most directly explain the error of that, without referencing the definition of an analogy ?

Originally Posted by livedarklions
People who post long screeds repeatedly in the same thread then acting as if they're somehow above the fray is a pet peeve of mine. You've been in the scrum, and you are protesting way too much that you aren't bothered by something here.
....I've never claimed to be "above the fray". I just have other stuff to do. Here's the same thought from PeteHski , in his learning thread.

Originally Posted by PeteHski
But it can help other people to learn something and it can help to clarify your own thoughts about something. But for me the main objective is to kill a few moments between other stuff I'm doing. Takes my mind away from important things for a few minutes and I like talking about bikes.
Go say something mean to him, now. Maybe it will work better on him than it does on me.
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 06:04 PM
  #697  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,802

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24800 Post(s)
Liked 8,583 Times in 5,990 Posts
Originally Posted by MikeWMass
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...Source ? I first heard it from the car people, way back in the '50's or '60's. A lot of those discussions centered around "unsprung weight" versus weight on the chassis. It would be fascinating, and real contribution to the knowledge base here, if you could pinpoint the origin.
Unsprung weigh is totally different from rotating mass.
Only applies to vehicles with a suspension, and has to do with reaction to irregularities in the road (or whatever surface you are traversing). Nothing to do with acceleration.
...yes, that is correct. But the discussions that are doubltess archived on the internet somewhere all delve into the rotational mass of the wheels on the car, and how important it was to reduce them. Regardless, this is yet another deigression/distraction from the original point, which is that the topic of reducing rotating mass in the wheels seemed important to car guys in the '50's and '60's, as a performance issue. And it is where I was first exposed to it as a young man. Thus it came up in all discussions of the elusive subject of "feel and handling".

You are correct in your statement, but I think if you check it out, you'll find I recall this correctly. There are numerous references that a quick Google will provide for you.

WHAT IS UNSPRUNG WEIGHT?Unsprung weight often has a large effect on a vehicle because most (but not all) of it is rotational. Rotating mass requires more momentum to move, meaning that each additional pound has an exponential effect.

Rotational mass applies to the parts that must be accelerated or decelerated when the speed of the vehicle changes. This includes items that rotate, like the driveshaft, brake rotors, wheels, and tires. Rotating mass is roughly three times harder to accelerate than sprung weight.

This means that dropping just 10 pounds per wheel with the addition of a lighter set of racing-oriented wheels would equate to a reduction of almost 120 pounds of sprung weight. In most drag racing instances, 100 pounds lost equates to a tenth of a second or one car length in the quarter-mile. It’s a small amount on paper, but it adds up if you’re racing competitively.
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 06:11 PM
  #698  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,802

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 300 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24800 Post(s)
Liked 8,583 Times in 5,990 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
By the way .... I reject the claim that lighter wheels "handle" differently....

I still value my impressions .... but if I were to be, say, trying to win profession or Olympic-caliber pursuit races or win F1 races and not dying, I would definitely go with science instead of impressions.

...

...my own impression is that you have heroically resisted the urge to race competitively on a bicycle. As have many of the people in the General Cycling forum. You are more than welcome to change your mind about bicycle "handling". I am not here to recruit followers.
__________________
3alarmer is offline  
Old 02-23-23, 06:17 PM
  #699  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,860

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2333 Post(s)
Liked 2,325 Times in 1,177 Posts
Originally Posted by Reynolds 531
a bike hangs on its spokes. shakin my head
That's incorrect. A wheel stands on its spokes.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Likes For terrymorse:
Old 02-23-23, 06:28 PM
  #700  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 4,178
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1933 Post(s)
Liked 1,226 Times in 592 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...you're arguing mathematics, and exactitude, in refuting an analogy. Analogies are always between things that are different, that's why they are analogies.
I'm not saying that it's a poor analogy because there isn't mathematical equivalence between the things being analogized. I think it's a poor analogy because I don't think that the attributes being analogized are good analogs in the context of the discussion.

Your analogy supposes that ignoring a physical contribution on the basis of magnitude is to bicycle performance analysis as taking the limit as the delta approaches zero is to calculus. And I just don't see this as a useful way to explain one side of the analogy or the other: the former is a judgement of importance within its context, while the latter is simply methodological. You're not taking the limit as dx->0 because the error in the un-limited slope or reimann sum or whatever formula is a low-importance component of the underlying problem, you're doing it because the error only exists in the first place as an artifact of how you're performing the solution.
HTupolev is offline  
Likes For HTupolev:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.