fishboat

I have an Ultegra HB-6500 hub with slightly pitted cones. Part number is 23v 9802.

I haven't found the specific part (number) on the web, no surprise I guess. Is this a somewhat generic part within that era's Shimano hubs? Can I sub in a cone from a different hub(105, Tiagra...etc..)? Are there any aftermarket cones that will fit? Is there a generic Shimano cone that will fit? Part#?

Thanks..

TPL

Why not contact ShimaNO ?

Andrew R Stewart 

Not a "generic" grade of cone at all! The Ultegra level likely is polished on the ball track and have some sort of seal capacity. Would another cone work? Yes if the dimensions are the same, a sealing ring or groove needs not to be used (although more grime will get in). Shimano has made replacement cones available however with the global supply shortage, and that this hub is many years out of production, don't hold your breath for a OEM replacement.

The biggest replacement cone manufacturer is Wheels manufacturing. They have many different cones listed on their website with various dimensions. Whether any are on hand...

I usually suggest when looking for a replacement cone that one should compare the replacement with the OEM in hand. This reduces the common measurement errors, the misunderstanding of terms or descriptions and is the ultimate test for interchangeability. This comparison is best done at the LBS, before any $ has been spent.

Can you post a photo and the various dimensions? Some of us might have one in our stashes. Andy

ClydeClydeson

Andrew is right - Wheels Manuf. is the good supplier of aftermarket cones.

My experience was that, presumably since so few people rebuild their bearings in 2022, the LBS had a whole bunch on hand to compare so I could pick the best match. Wheels has part numbers that supposedly correspond to OEM parts, but a few had slipped from their bags at the LBS and were floating loose in the Wheels cones bin so we had to physically match them,

CliffordK

I've had very bad luck trying to order things like Shimano subunit parts on the web, although I've found a few cones in the past.

You might stop by a couple of your local bike shops and see if they have them, or can get them.

The cones are fairly universal, but the 6500 has a dust cover that must fit tightly over them.

I'm seeing a different part number. Is that for the front cone?
Shimano y-24w98090

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/ev/EV-HB-6500-A-2320.pdf

Universal Cycles in Portland/Beaverton list a few Shimano cones. You might write them a note and ask if they have the Ultegra cones.

One note said that the 6500 and 6600 (front) cones were identical.

You could probably use a few different models for replacement, at least in the short term.

sch

Or you could just replace the balls and rebuild the hub with the existing cones and accept that you might need to
expend another 50 milliwatts more than you would with good cones.

CliffordK

The pits will grow, and may start tearing up the balls. The outer races seem to be slightly more durable than the cones, but that would also be a risk.

I've gotten pretty good at polishing cones on a small drillpress and sandpaper. If the pits are small, I'd probably try sanding them out.

I should make a video.

sch

I considered adding repolishing to the procedure but depends on the OP's workshop. Likely the balls are much harder than the
cones and the cones are surface hardened and aggressive polishing will thin the surface hardening and may change the
contours of the cones as well. However that being said I would personally try that first. OTOH I haven't touched my ball
bearing wheels over the past 15 yrs and no longer concern myself with wheel bearing roughness. I did adjust some side
to side play on one cartridge bearing rear wheel last yr. Life is too short to obsess over some things (at my age).

I can recall my PX10 Normandy hub cones looking pretty crappy after a year or two and swapping them for Campy cones
and axles back in the day, about $5-6 for two cones and an axle. Normandy axles had pretty lousy metallurgy and bent
easily as well.
Just looked it up: Bikecology 1976 catalog Campy Record axle set (axle/cones/nuts/washers) $5.25 for front $6.50
for rear. Eat your heart out.......

daniell

This may be helpful. The catch is that you have to buy the cones with the axle.
Shimano Road Axle and Cone Kits - $10.95 - Bike Parts 360

fishboat

I saw both blow-up pdf's when I checked the Shimano site. The 6500-A has eleven 3/16 balls per side, while the 6500 (no A) has ten 3/16ths inch bearings per side. My hub had 10 bearings..so I'm thinking it's a 6500 (no A). The cone outside also says 6500. Other than 10 vs 11 bearings/side, I'm not sure what the difference is between the 6500 and 6500-A..but that offer an additional part number to search on.

Andrew..thx for your thoughts..I'm booked this afternoon. I'll measure up the cones later and post them back. The Shimano drawing so far says 9mmx12.8mm.

Cliff/sch..I have a full woodshop and several drill presses. I considered polishing them out a bit and may if that's what's left as an option. I'm flush with paper grits from 100 to 2000.

CliffordK

What I did...

First step was heading to the local bike co-op, and buying up all the broken axles I could find.

Screw a locknut onto the axle stub, then the cone backwards, flush with the end.

Put it in my mini drill press (like a mini lathe). And polish by hand. Starting with something around say 220 or 320 grit. Then work up to 400/600/? grit. As I get closer to getting done, I'll put a little veggie oil on the sandpaper. And, eventually I get close to a mirror finish.

I usually hold my sandpaper by hand, although occasionally I'll wrap a file or dowel with sandpaper, which I then hold by hand.

At first I was just doing cheap cones, but I found that I can work out some minor pits too.

I haven't done runout testing, but they do spin well in the hubs.

I realize the argument of surface hardening. I don't know the metallurgy and manufacturing of the bike cones. Likely varying by cone model and manufacturer. However, I'm strongly in favor of smooth cones. If the metals are put through an ordinary high carbon heating, quenching, and tempering cycle, then there shouldn't be a surface hardening issue. If they have some kind of soft steel plus case hardening, it could be bad (other than the issue of not liking rough bearing surfaces).

One will note that some manufacturers sell polished cones, which had to be done after any hardening process.

dedhed

https://wheelsmfg.com/tech/PDF/hub/hb-6500.pdf


https://wheelsmfg.com/hub-parts#front_road

Andrew R Stewart 

This kind of running change is but one reason why I suggested trusting a side by side comparison.

The 9x12.8 dimensions are only two of the aprox. six aspects a cone is defined by. Axle diameter, thread pitch, ball track inner diameter, outer diameter, ball track curve radius and length from either end to end of from the big end to the start of the ball track curve. I'll add that not all of these are listed on any spec sheet I've seen. Andy

dedhed

If you want to make a trip to Fitchburg.

https://www.fitchburgcycles.com/prod...e-276289-1.htm

fishboat

That looks to be it. If the axle and cones are priced at $10.95..that's not a bad deal..at all.

Have you/anyone ordered from Bike Parts 360?

My chrome browser is saying "unsecure" website.

daniell

I have not ordered anything from them. I have those same hubs. I once had to replace the cones because they came adjusted too tight from the factory. It does not seem like a bad deal. I don't know what the shipping cost would be.

Crankycrank

Looks like they no longer have an operating website. I remember doing a search on them within the last year or so since they had such good prices and claimed to have parts in stock that no one else on the planet had but they seemed to have quite a few bad reviews, much more than any other bike web seller. I recommend staying away, if they are even still in business.

fishboat

I'm going to try a couple local bike shops first and see what they may have. I'm sure there's lots of dimensions-specs for cones. I haven't come across any technical drawings either (of the form that's used to mfg the cone).

I took some measurements this morning and a couple pics. Looks like (so far) there may be some leads on replacements. The pics below are the drive-side front cone. The NDS has one small pit in it and otherwise looks clean. I should say that before I took the hub apart it had no lateral play in it and felt sliky smooth. I was rather surprised when I opened it up.

fishboat

thanks..The site looks/feels a bit sketchy. oh well..a good try at least.

fishboat

dedhed..that looks to be "it", thank you. Forgive the possibly dumb question, though by this time it's no mystery that cone replacement is new to me. All the hubs I've cleaned up in the past have been in good shape and just needed fresh grease and adjusting.



It appears the cone-bearing face threads on to the outside portion of the cone "assembly" with my current dust cover in the slot. Is this true?

fishboat

FWIW..I asked earlier if there where any cones from other Shimano hubs that fit Ultegra hubs..from the Shimano parts-drawing pdf..it appears 5500 series 105 can sub in for 6500 Ultegra..with the qualifier that the materials may be different. Wheels Mgf specs the Ultegra (6500) & 105 (5500) as the same CN-R096.

dedhed

Typically it's one piece and you have to carefully remove your old dust cover & seal and install on the new cone. Or forego them as they won't affect operation of the cone.

With the wheels part # you might call around to Emory's, Ben's, or W & S. I've bought cones from some of them before.

fishboat

Thanks..I was going to stop by South Shore Cyclery & Ben's today. Emory's is a good thought..forgot about them. Maybe I'll do some running and hit W&S too.

Also..thank you for the cone lookup reference by hub on the Wheel Mfg website. I was there yesterday, but missed that page. Very helpful.

djb

Fishboat, ya those are pretty nasty looking pits. A few years ago I worked on a friends bike and the cones were like this. I took the old one with me and the axle to my lbs and they passed me their cardboard box of cones to compare.
Really important as already noted to have the old parts with you. Found one that worked well enough and had similar angles and width, and so was able to save the rear hub.

As noted, hardly anyone works on their own hubs. Good BB hubs with good seals and good parts can and will last for decades with proper care.

CliffordK

Ewww... That is beyond what I would try to polish out.

I did try to rework a bottom bracket on my lathe once. Whew, that was HARD metal. And, the more one does, the narrower the cone becomes.

What I'd probably do is get whatever cone set you can find, whether it is Shimano, or a replacement. Then keep an eye open for a NOS Ultegra cone set.