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Chrome Schwinn Voyageur 11.2 Insurance Replacement Cost

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Chrome Schwinn Voyageur 11.2 Insurance Replacement Cost

Old 07-01-22, 06:06 PM
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kocour
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Chrome Schwinn Voyageur 11.2 Insurance Replacement Cost

My restored chrome-finish 1980 Schwinn Voyageur was hit by a car when I was riding it. Except for a few bruises and abrasions I am ok, but the bike frame is buckled. While I was riding in the street a car backed out of a diagonal parking space and hit my bike. My front wheel collided with the rear of the car, which was missing its back bumper. I ended up on his trunk lid. The bike had been re-chromed and was in perfect condition. I have about $1,200 invested in it. The driver's insurance company indicated that depending on the police report they are willing to pay for damages. Any ideas on what I should ask for? I am not interested in profiting from this, I just want to be compensated for what I have invested in this bike. I would like them to pay me $1,200 even though I doubt I will be able to find a bike in this condition (re chromed finish and professionally rebuilt).
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Old 07-01-22, 06:15 PM
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I don't know how one could justify $1200 for a Voyageur 11.8 (11.2 is the Schwinn Super le Tour). Maybe a quarter of that, tops.

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Old 07-01-22, 08:44 PM
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...do you have receipts for any f the restoration work ? If not, I think you're gonna need to look for a different one, and maybe switch over some of your parts. The one advantage thus far you have is that you have not mentioned tp the insurance adjuster assigned to your case anything about personal injury, or visiting a doctor, or rehabilitation and physical therapy, all of which would cost his company more. But insurance adjusters spend most of their working lives convincing people whatever they lost was not worth what they thought it was worth.

As a last resort, you might consider offering to sign a release from all physical injury claims for this incident, current and future, if they will simply pay you the $1200 you have invested in the bike.

We already had a long running thread in teh C+V about how cheap everyone is here, so my estimates for that bike in good restored condition might be higher than other people's idea of its value. I had one I built custom wheels for, and hung some stuff on it that increased its value to me. They are good riding bikes. But getting something re-chromed in California is a non starter.
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Old 07-01-22, 09:48 PM
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Tell them it was a Raleigh Portage
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Old 07-01-22, 11:28 PM
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Hey, not trying to devalue this bike - I'm saying it doesn't have a lot of value to begin with. I should know - I bought one, then sold it - twice - over the course of 5 years. Virtually NOS, black/chrome with red decals, same vintage, all original down to the tires and red cable housings. Bought on Ebay for approximately $160, shipped. Three years later, I sold it on Ebay for about $300, shipped, to a buyer in Japan, but shipped to a CA address. Damage in shipment meant it came back and I had to refund. Small dent in the top tube and missing brake caliper hardware. Finally found the hardware, left the dent, and sold the complete - and now only 99% original - for $125 at an old friend's garage sale around 2010.

They just aren't anywhere near a Paramount in terms of parts, performance, original cost, etc. Just because one throws $1000 at a bike doesn't magically make it $1000 more valuable.

OP: Having said all that, and my first post as well: in this case, it would seem more likely the insurance company would simply consider the cost of an equivalent modern replacement, and might well settle for that. Could net at or above $1200; if they haven't thought about that as an option, maybe you should broach the subject.

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Old 07-02-22, 08:29 AM
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If you are not asking for any injury related damages, I think you might be able to work out a deal with the insurance company. $1200 for a total settlement for an incident where a driver hits a pedestrian is a pretty small number for the insurance company. I would NOT tell them what model and certainly not what year the bike is. Very few people know this kind of stuff anyway, just be honest that it's an older bike you have restored and put 1200 into it and they might just accept that number to be done with the case.
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Old 07-02-22, 09:01 AM
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I don’t know what Iowa law is like but in California , the insurance company is obligated to restore you to where you were prior to the accident. This is not including physical injury if applicable, that is a separate issue. The property damage and injury are separate. Some insurance companies are reasonable , others are not. I’m glad you weren’t seriously injured , that is most important. As far as your bike , the best you could do is look for another one or comparable bike to come up with value . Also any receipts you have for the bike you have would be helpful. Good luck, I can’t imagine what it would be like to have one of my bikes damaged by someone’s carelessness or inattentive action.
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Old 07-02-22, 02:21 PM
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I would get a repair estimate from a knowledgeable shop-replacing "buckled" tubes and re-chrome blows past $2k in a hurry. Also get replacement estimates for a modern "equivalent" bicycle as DD alludes to. A mid-range "name" replacement would seem to be currently in the $3k range. Present these to the adjuster and be ready to negotiate as you choose.

I remember some decades ago, one of my customer's bikes was stolen from their garage. They submitted a claim without an estimate from a shop. We got a call at the shop from an incredulous adjuster unable to believe that a bicycle could cost more than $1000! After we verified that the bike had indeed cost more than $1000 and the current replacement cost was substantially more, a check was immediately cut for the amount requested in the claim!

In more recent times, We have not had any "reasonable" claims with documentation for bikes damaged in crashes denied by local adjusters.

Good Luck!
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Old 07-02-22, 04:52 PM
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I bought the bike at an estate sale. It had its original chrome finish but many of the components were shot. It had been in storage in a barn for at least 20 years. I cleaned it up and rode it for several weeks. Then the right seat stay cracked where it met the seat post. I took it to a frame builder and he replaced both seat stays with a more solid design. Then I had the bike re-chromed and reassembled with vintage but well working parts appropriate or original to the bike like brakes, derailleurs, pedals etc. When I first got it the bike came with Mavic MA40 wheels so I kept those. I added a Brooks seat and leather bar tape. The bike was really beautiful and I got comments whenever I rode it. I have receipts for all of the work I had done - they add up to $1185. I am going to ask for that amount plus the cost of a new helmet.
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Old 07-03-22, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kocour View Post
I bought the bike at an estate sale. It had its original chrome finish but many of the components were shot. It had been in storage in a barn for at least 20 years. I cleaned it up and rode it for several weeks. Then the right seat stay cracked where it met the seat post. I took it to a frame builder and he replaced both seat stays with a more solid design. Then I had the bike re-chromed and reassembled with vintage but well working parts appropriate or original to the bike like brakes, derailleurs, pedals etc. When I first got it the bike came with Mavic MA40 wheels so I kept those. I added a Brooks seat and leather bar tape. The bike was really beautiful and I got comments whenever I rode it. I have receipts for all of the work I had done - they add up to $1185. I am going to ask for that amount plus the cost of a new helmet.
I'm dubious that the approach you describe will work, but good luck. Let us know how it works out.
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Old 07-03-22, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
I'm dubious that the approach you describe will work, but good luck. Let us know how it works out.
I went back and forth in my head about this driving the other day.

For the most part, I am in camp the driver needs to feel some pinch because of the accident, via the insurance company. I was all about the $1200 reimbursement. Then I thought of another scenario where it was a car that someone souped up. If I put $10,000 rims, stereo, seats on a $5,000 car, the appraiser is going to call it a $5,000 car. And that is what they will pay out, I would think.

What would be the best scenario is saying you want a direct replacement and they have to source everything at level of your bike including new chrome. But they won't.
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Old 07-03-22, 06:33 AM
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For what it’s worth, they’ll probably pay that $1200 and be happy about it. I was hit by a driver that destroyed a substantially more expensive bike. I gave them a pile of receipts and the drivers insurance couldn’t write the check fast enough.

The personal property claim is often such a small part of a claim like this they probably hope that by not haggling over a few hundred bucks that you won’t a lawyer up to the tune of a few hundred thousand when the doctor’s bill arrives.
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Old 07-03-22, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jdawginsc View Post
I went back and forth in my head about this driving the other day.

For the most part, I am in camp the driver needs to feel some pinch because of the accident, via the insurance company. I was all about the $1200 reimbursement. Then I thought of another scenario where it was a car that someone souped up. If I put $10,000 rims, stereo, seats on a $5,000 car, the appraiser is going to call it a $5,000 car. And that is what they will pay out, I would think.

What would be the best scenario is saying you want a direct replacement and they have to source everything at level of your bike including new chrome. But they won't.
That fixing-up-a-car analogy is about the same one that occurred to me.
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Old 07-03-22, 02:45 PM
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Old 07-03-22, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fliplap View Post
For what it’s worth, they’ll probably pay that $1200 and be happy about it. I was hit by a driver that destroyed a substantially more expensive bike. I gave them a pile of receipts and the drivers insurance couldn’t write the check fast enough.

The personal property claim is often such a small part of a claim like this they probably hope that by not haggling over a few hundred bucks that you won’t a lawyer up to the tune of a few hundred thousand when the doctor’s bill arrives.
...yeah. I did a full endo dismount that killed a set of wheels I had built with less than 100 miles on them, because I didn't notice a gap in the rubber decking at a light rail crossing here, that was going the wrong way. The adjuster for the Transit Authority, once he saw the decking, and viewed the video of my spectacular roll, couldn't get the check out to me fast enough, when he found out all I wanted was the price of new rims and spokes to rebuild. I signed a release of liability for any injuries, and I think I heard him smiling when he talked to me on the phone.
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Old 07-04-22, 06:01 AM
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When I had a bike stolen insurance paid out the total of my receipts for the bike and all accessories I had on it. (fenders/rack/lights etc)
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Old 07-04-22, 07:15 AM
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Yea, most of the time the property damage is the least of their worries. Physical injury is far more worrisome to the adjuster. I had gotten rear ended at a stop light and my wife and I were fine and a ding in the plastic bumper on our car was the only evidence of damage. The adjuster came out to look at the car and asked if my wife or myself were seeing a doctor. I said no, but thanks for the concern. She then looked at the quarter sized ding in the rear bumper of my Ford and said she would get back with me. I got an email that a $1000 check had been issued to me and if the body shop needed more $ let her know. Body shop ? Ha , I need no stinking body shop! I took the money and put it in the bank.
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Old 07-04-22, 09:15 AM
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My experience dealing with (Canadian) insurance companies, from the point of a bike shop writing quotes for replacement of damaged or stolen bikes, is that they generally ask what an equivalent modern bike would cost. If you have a preferred LBS who knows your bike and can say it is equivalent to, say, a modern Surly LHT, then the insurance company might cut a cheque for the MSRP of a new.

Things in Canada might be different from the USA - first, we don't have many Schwinns here, so I might be out to lunch re. it's equivalent replacement, and also medical bills are generally covered by provincial health care systems, so Insurance Cos aren't on the hook for 100s of 1000s of $s for a broken pinky toe, so they might look at bike replacements from a different perspective.
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Old 07-14-22, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
I don't know how one could justify $1200 for a Voyageur 11.8 (11.2 is the Schwinn Super le Tour). Maybe a quarter of that, tops.

DD
The driver's insurance company asked for receipts for what I had invested in the bike and a note from a bike shop assessing the damage. When I produced these they wrote me a check for $1200. Based on your comment you might say that they bailed me out for having invested too much in a Voyageur. But after restoration I think the chrome finished bike with Mavic wheels and a well operating drive train was worth my investment. I will miss the bike.
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Old 07-14-22, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kocour View Post
The driver's insurance company asked for receipts for what I had invested in the bike and a note from a bike shop assessing the damage. When I produced these they wrote me a check for $1200. Based on your comment you might say that they bailed me out for having invested too much in a Voyageur. But after restoration I think the chrome finished bike with Mavic wheels and a well operating drive train was worth my investment. I will miss the bike.
Good deal - and not surprising at all. As others have noted, the insurance company probably had a quick look at replacement cost, and figured $1200 was getting off lightly. My assessment of value, of course, was only based upon what a bike-person would pay to acquire such a bike.

What are your plans for a replacement bike now you've got $1200 burning a hole in your pocket?

DD
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Old 07-14-22, 10:21 PM
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The driver's insurance came through and paid me for what I had invested in the bike. They also paid for two visits to my doctor's office and X-rays. They have offered some for pain and suffering and future medical expenses. I have not yet agreed to those I am still suffering from strained muscles in my neck and want to make sure that clears up before settling. The driver's insurance has a reputation of being a budget brand and I was worried that I would not be fairly compensated. But the adjuster that I am working with has been very helpful. That may be because the police report made it clear that the driver was at fault. What I learned from this and what I recommend to anyone who is in a bike/car accident - no matter how small - notify the police department so that they document what happened. This will protect your rights to compensation if it is the driver's fault. The damage to your bike and body may not be evident initially so it is good to have record of what happened.
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Old 07-14-22, 11:48 PM
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Thanks for coming back and reporting how your claim went, this could be any of us one day. Now that you’ve got your compensation check, I’ve got a 1980 chrome Voyageur 11.8 that I’d happy to sell for only $1100.00……ha ha just kidding. I hope the lingering physical issues clear up soon. Get well!

By the way, nothing wrong with spending extra to get a bike to a point where you love it. I’ve spent this much or more on new parts and accessories for few of them with no hope or thought of getting my money back. I hope the next bike works out for you.

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Old 07-15-22, 04:22 AM
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Good news! It sounds like you will be treated fairly, smart to hold off a bit before settling on the physical part. It took a while to get my neck under control after my crash. I still do the exercises they taught me in physical therapy. My crash was in 2018.
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Old 07-17-22, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
Good deal - and not surprising at all. As others have noted, the insurance company probably had a quick look at replacement cost, and figured $1200 was getting off lightly. My assessment of value, of course, was only based upon what a bike-person would pay to acquire such a bike.

What are your plans for a replacement bike now you've got $1200 burning a hole in your pocket?

DD
I decided to go with a new bike rather than replace the Schwinn with another vintage model (I have s second chrome Voyageur that I had bought for parts - it is not in as good as condition as the restored one but is fun to ride). I just bought a Diamondback Haanjo 7C. There is limited selection of new bikes in my area. I test rode models from Specialized, Trek, Cannonade, and a few other brands. I found the Diamondback to have the most satisfying ride. It has a carbon frame and is designed as a gravel or endurance road bike. I have it set up with tubeless tires - that really improves the ride. I rode it for 75 miles yesterday and really enjoyed it.

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Old 07-17-22, 05:07 PM
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When it comes to insurance for a good bike, my reco is never claim for a bike. Claim for a frame, claim for hubs/spokes/rim/tires/even tubes if you use them, claim for parts (from cable guides to handlebar tape to ders to crank/cassette/freewheel, etc. etc., etc.), claim for labor to put it all together. If the insurance company balks, lodge a complaint with your state or province's insurance commission.

Insurance companies have to make money to stay in business, and they do that by spending less than they take in. Ignore market value when you are hit with a loss - think replacement value.

If you happen to find an exact replacement for your old bike, feel free to reimburse the insurer for any excess they paid you.
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