robbyville

I’m told that hookless rims are cheaper to manufacture, wondering if same goes for tires?

i just can’t help but notice that quite a few places are offering the new Conti 5000s for much less than the prior version was selling for now that the S is “TR, tubeless Ready” vs prior TL Tubeless”. Supply chain constraints are still around and supply is still tight so I wouldn’t think that retailers would have to dump them or lower their margins so I’m wondering if the cost of these is lower from a manufacturing stand point and thus lower price to the dealers themselves?

in other news, I decided to ride into a pool of glass on our group ride this morning. Basically brand new tires heard the hiss and pulled over, sealant worked beautifully spurting out for a few seconds. Probably lost about 25lbs used the C02 and finished the additional 25 miles. I’m hoping that the cut is sealed well enough that I don’t need to think about patching or replacing?

thoughts?

Iride01 

Somehow I can't see that there would be any vast amount of difference for cost of manufacture. Certainly not enough for us to realize it in our wallets. And besides, many manufacturers don't price just on what it takes to manufacture and add on their desired profit, they also sell stuff by what the market bears and demands.

Don't know about your tire since I don't do tubeless yet. But the cut or puncture looks like a plug might be a good idea. But I'll defer to other tubeless users that know better.

bbbean 

Any time sealant makes it outside one of my tires, I pull it off and put a patch on the inside.

robbyville

i would tend to agree that I can’t imagine the cost of manufacture being much less. Just strange that the price of these have come down so much from one iteration to the next when tires are still in high demand.

I think I’ll take a look at a patch I side perhaps. I have plugs for road side repairs when sealant won’t work but since it did I figured I’d either leave it be or patch or replace depending on recommendations. I’d hate to replace though since they have less than 400 miles

robbyville

standard patch for a tube?

Iride01 

If that pic is with the tire inflated to it's normal riding pressure, then I wouldn't be concerned with safety any more than if it were a new tire. With the tubed tires I use, I will only worry if when inflated properly the area around the cut pooches out. Then I'd feel too many threads in the casing have been damaged.

I'd expect it to be much the same for tubeless.

bbbean 

That's what I use.

chaadster

That’s a pretty good sized cut, and having lost about 25psi affirms that, though I also suspect (based on my experience) that the sealant could have done a better job.

As for the future of the tire, I’d have preferred to leave the sealant glob on the outside— it looks like maybe you picked it off for the pic— just to block debris getting in there and being worked in enough to cause another leak. I’d probably dab some vulcanizer in there now and not worry about it beyond that.

Sure, the cut is a risk factor, but to whatever extent that additional risk is, it’s only risk of annoyance, not risk of catastrophe. If it reopens, the sealant will reseal it. Unless you roll without a pump, I’d say the odds of that cut leaving you stranded approach zero.

if workable, moving it to the front would further mitigate running risk and avoid immediate replacement.

79pmooney

Hookless rims are cheaper to make because the mold does not have to come apart to pull the rim sidewalls out. Big savings in tooling and complexity. Tires are the opposite. Tires for hooked rims only can have looser bead tolerances because it is difficult to get the bead to slide over the hook. With a hookless rim, only that tight bead is keeping the tire on the rim. "Tubeless ready" says to me that the tire is ready for the use without innertubes and with slime on a hooked rim but I'm guessing if you ran it on a hookless, had the tire blow off, got hurt and sued, the manufacturer's defense would be that they never said it was OK for hookless rims. I'm also guessing your suit would be dismissed.

Dropping the tire from "TL" to "TR" says to me they are loosening their standards and/or protecting themselves from hookless blowoff suits - to save themselves money and liability. (Personal opinion here - hookless rims are a boost to stockholders (company gets to sell lighter; hence more attractive, wheels at the same or higher prices while building them at lower costs. For the rest of us, no real advantage and if we are not careful, they can be a real danger.)

79pmooney

And on a more pedestrian note - with that gash, watch for a bulge developing. If threads were cut, they will probably be the outer threads which run diagonally under the thread in one direction. If they fail, the tire will take a weird asymmetrical bulge. Now only the other layer of threads running at roughly right angles to those cut are holding your tire together. This can be fixed by gluing in a structural boot (not a tire patch!) on the inside. I've had great success with sailmaker's dacron sailcloth (not the JoAnn's Fabrics stuff) glued with contracter's contact cement; the stuff countertops are glued down with. There are lots of other good fabrics. I used to sail and build sailboats so I was handed a great piece of sailcloth decades ago and have looked no further.

mstateglfr 

https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/...444&country=us

I've used this for my tubeless gravel tires. Not sure if it's different from regular tube patches.

robbyville

the sealant came off through the rest of the ride but I imagine there’s more inside the cut itself. Good idea on the vulcanization solution, I’m really not in the mood to remove the tire lol. I did ride 42 miles today with no challenges so that’s good!

bbbean 

DO NOT DO THIS! A flat on the front is an inconvenience. A flat on the front is a likely crash. Always put your least trustworthy tire on the rear.

chaadster

I understand your concern, but think it doesn’t account for tubeless behavior; catastrophic flatting is not really a thing with tubeless. Therefore, my assessment is that flats are more likely in the rear, a cut is more likely to reopen in the rear (due to weight distribution), and the odds of that particular cut reopening on the front are extremely low.

mstateglfr 

...or just patch it with a $1 tubeless specific patch and don't feel it necessary to change 2 tires.

Troul 

The cost depends on how the manufacturer's production process. It could be cheaper, but might not be by much once the supply chain side gets involved (demand) .

pick out all the debris, patch the tire, vulcanize the exterior really well, let it all cure & then reinstall the tire for use. If it presents any issues from those repaired areas, replace the tire.

chaadster

I’m not familiar with these tubeless patches meant to go inside a tire under the tread, but it sounds like a real PITA to do, raising the question why not just use a plug repair, which is a whole faster and easier and just as permanent, if not more so.

I mean, the tire in question is sealed, so I’d be reluctant to do anything more than try to fill the tread cut to keep debris out, but if I were worried about it, I think stuffing a “bacon strip” in there would be my approach to a permanent, durable repair.

robbyville

the cut is on the front. I think I’m just going to get some vulcanizing solution and be on my merry way

WhyFi

Part of the cost differential may be Conti's decision consolidate the S line and have only one flagship model, as opposed to tubeless and non-tubeless versions. In general, though, tires built to hookless spec to need to have tighter tolerances and tend to be a bit more expensive.

As far as that cut, it looks to be about borderline, IME, for a permeant sealant-only fix. I've had a few of those, right about 4-5mm, and would either just leave it or use a plug on it. Most of the time, it's just fine. One of my cuts like that, though, did re-open after about 1k miles, when I hit a sharp bump just right. It did reseal, losing about the same 25psi. It then went a few hundred miles more before another just-right hard bump made it re-open and re-seal again. At that point, it was towards the end of life, in terms of tread wear, so I just binned it. So yeah, it's probably fine, but if you want to be proactive about potentially avoiding another roadside inconvenience of topping off, you can plug it.

eduskator

When in doubt, remove, inspect and repair if needed. I know it's a PITA, but it can save you a lot of time on the long run.

Last puncture I had, the sealant didn't clog it. I put a patch (regular tube patch) inside, poured fresh sealant and pumped it. It still holds very well.

msu2001la

Did Continental drop the TL version of this tire? It seemed weird to me that they were selling both the S TR (tubeless and hookless ok) and TL (tubeless, but not hookless ok).
I think they are still selling the regular non-tubeless GP 5000, correct?

I'm also curious to hear what kind of prices people are seeing. I haven't shopped tires in a while, but a quick glance at online suppliers shows the S TR selling for around $70-$80/ea, and the regular GP 5000's selling for around $50-$60. This doesn't seem to be all that different than what I recall these tires selling for 9-10 months ago.

mstateglfr 

To recap, you suggested someone remove both tires so the cut tire can go on the front then set both back up tubeless, but you think it sounds like a PITA to remove 1 tire and patch it then set it back up?
1 is half as much as 2. If 1 is a PITA, what is 2?

WhyFi

I'm not sure what they're doing with the non-S versions, I just recall that they said they'd only be doing the S in one flavor, for both tubes and tubeless. I haven't looked in to it, but along those lines, I wouldn't be surprised if the TL had an air-tight lining and the S TR didn't; it would make sense - less mass and rolling resistance, tube users don't need the air-tight layer and, in practice, I don't think that too many tubeless users were running without sealant.

Excel was selling two-packs of 25mm S TR for... I want to say $120 or so. If they would have offered that in 28s, I probably would have picked some up.

bbbean 

Flats on the front have nothing to do with tubed/tubeless/tubular. A flat on the front frequently results in a dramatic loss of control, and is many times more difficult to control than a flat on the rear. FWIW, I've been running tubeless on my road bikes for a few years and have flatted at speed. Not an experience I'm eager to repeat..

79pmooney

Haven't ridden tubeless so no comment there. I would far rather flat a tubular in front than a clincher. I rode tubulars for 3 decades and got my far share of front flats. Coming to a stop never rated as "memorable" events, Yes, the heart rate spike when it happens and pretty funky steering, but not a big deal unless you are cornering. I'm returning to tubulars for all my good bikes primarily for that reason; safety after blowouts/flats. (The sublime ride and security of feeling riding over virtually anything is the nice desert. )