HuffyMaster3000

I've been lurking but I'm new here.
I am looking to build a bike; MTB/commuter/ trail with hard tail.
I'm not sure if I want to go with steel,alloy or ti; it depends on which frames the coop has.
I'm looking for a late 90's to mid 2000's frame with aggressive geometry. I'm not really looking for comfort just light weight.
I don't really want to spend more than $100 but I'm not expecting to find one more that that where I'm looking.
When it comes to steel I don't know witch frames are double and triple butted. I know stumpjumpers and some jamis are but what about scotts, GT, pacific, bridge stone, etc.
I know there's steel used in frames like columbus and reynolds but how you determine quality when you are at a coop looking at random frames.

Kapusta

Bring your smart phone and use Google?

I am curious what do you mean by “aggressive” geometry in this context.

mstateglfr 

Many frames have decals that advertise the material used and butting.
Really though, that says nothing.
- Double butted tubing is not inherently better or worse than triple butted tubing.
- Two tubes could both be double butted yet weigh and perform differently due to the butting profiles.
- There are a couple ways to claim a tube is triple butted, which changes meaning and reduces importance(it was already pretty unimportant).


Do not buy a bike that is triple butted instead of one that is double butted just because it has 1 more butt. That makes no sense and it ignores actual important reasons to purchase a frame.
Most production bikes from the 80s have Tange, Ishiwata, Reynolds, or Columbus tubing. None of those brands are better or worse than the others. Tange offered a wide range of tubing and butting profiles, for example.


For what you want to spend, just go buy a frame you think is cool and will fit. That should be the priority.

KerryIrons

$100 for a Ti frame? Which planet are you on? Beyond that ignore triple vs. double butting. It's functionally meaningless.

_ForceD_

No skin off my back, but you might get more info posting this question in the Framebuilders forum.
https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/

Dan

Rolla

A hundred bucks is going to get you a steel or aluminum frame, probably one that is not especially light. Many frames use butted tubes, but not all butts or tubes are equal. If you end up with steel, I'd be far more concerned about getting chromoly instead of hi-ten than whether it's butted or straight-gauge. For aluminum, most frames will be 7005 or 6061, which will weigh about a pound less than a comparable steel frame.

Personally, I'd just buy a frame that fits you well and not worry too much about material or weight. You can find other places in the build to shave a pound.

philbob57

Tange, Ishiwata, Reynolds, & Columbus all made different levels of steel with different butted profiles. I expect TruTemper, Falck, Vitus, and every other tubing manufacturer did, too. Hell,, Reynolds which claimed advantages over CroMo for their manganese-moly tubes started making CroMo tubes, too. I found even a straight-gauge 3 main tube 531 frame more fun to ride than the hi-tensile frames I owned, and I liked my all-531, butted main tube frame better than that, but I think that's because it fit me better than the bikes with Italian and Japanese frames I tried after my straight gauge bike was stolen.

If you buy a frame, your best bet is to pray that it will turn out well, because you're taking a chance that you'll find parts that work well with the frame. If you're new to cycling, my reco is to look for used bikes and buy one that fits and rides well, irrespective of the frame material - though you may be happier with higher end tubing.

cxwrench

Steel, Aluminum, and Titanium are ALL alloys, so the correct terminology isn't 'steel, alloy, ti', it's steel, aluminum, and titanium. Your luck in finding something depends to a certain degree on how you define 'light'. You can probably find decent used steel and aluminum frames, Ti...doubtful unless the owner doesn't have any idea what they have. OR it's a cheap Chinese or Russian CP (commercially pure) Ti frame.

3alarmer 

...based on what you have written here, find someone knowledgeable to help you figure out a frame at the co-op that fits your anatomy. Anything else is gravy, in a co-op environment. You might have some unrealistic expectations. They're probably based on a mix of what you've read on the internet, and a rich fantasy life. Good luck. I'm sure something that will work for you is out there, somewhere.

"Building Up" a bicycle, from a bare frame, using stuff (the miscellaneous stuff hanging around at the average bike co-op,) is absolutely the worst way to take advantage of one. Most of them have complete bikes that have been donated, and they're often priced reasonably. Just make sure you buy one that is the proper size, and stop worrying about frame material.

koala logs

I once came upon this planet, their people actually call it "Rainbow". They got unicorns. Hospitals give free brain and broken collarbone surgeries and people toss their Ti bikes on dumpsters with full unopened vodka bottles.

Ironfish653

If you want to "build" a bike; unless you already have a bunch of components, or a very specific spec, or a "centerpiece" component/ system that you absolutely have to use; start with a complete or nearly -complete bike that's about 70-80% of what you want to end up with.
Big things like wheels, bars and even drive components are pretty straightforward, but the little things like headsets, seatposts and cable "jewelry" and other odds -&-ends can really balloon the cost of a build, and often give the most trouble with finding sizes and compatibility

Ironfish653

There's a 2.8 Cannondale M-700 sitting on my local CL for $120 in near-rideable condition (needs tires and some lube). I snagged a vintage KLEIN Pinnacle MTB for an even hundo from a flea market a few weeks back, so they're out there.

HuffyMaster3000 it looks like you're gearing up to spend a pretty good chunk of change to scratch -build a bike that you could probably achieve by starting with a complete bike and adding mods to get it to where you want for a lot less time and money

Yan 

You're not going to be able to find a high end vintage frame for $100.

If your city has a community bicycle recycling workshop, you could check their junk frame stash. Maybe you'll get lucky.

CliffordK

Keep your eyes open.

This was about 7 years ago... time flies... but a titanium MTB frame popped up on Craigslist for $100. No fork. But it did come with the titanium seat post. It made a good base for a 26" to 700c conversion. And a bunch of fun!!!



Perhaps $200 for a low cost Titanium frame if you're lucky?

But, if you're too picky, it could be years before that perfect deal pops up.

prj71

Walmart is your place.

Broctoon

Do this. It will line up better with your budget. If I were shopping the co-op and found a frame that fits me, in nice condition, I would not care much what it's made of, and even less about its tubing profiles. Any variety of chrome-moly is more desirable than high tensile steel. If it is chrome-moly (from any brand) it will have a sticker to say so... unless, of course, it has been stripped or repainted. Plenty of fine frames were made of aluminum in the 90s and 2000s, and the alloy (6061, 7005, etc.) isn't very important, considering your budget. Focus on condition, size, and whether it's configured for the kind of components you want to use (brakes, headset, bottom bracket, seat post, etc.)

HuffyMaster3000

I have a Scott Montego but the frame is a bit too small; I think it's CroMo. I found the bike being thrown out by a used bike shop because of shifting issues and other stuff. I can ride it but decided I didn't want to build on that frame.
At the co-op I've seen some Columbus and jamis come through but I don't know what they have now.

Why is it bad to build a bike from scratch as long as the bike is less than 25 years old there should be plenty of parts. I just don't always know how to mix and match parts..based on quality. I have frankenbiked a wally world kent into a slightly nicer aluminum pacific. I wasn't light but better than the Kent with better parts. Also built up a trek that was being thrown out.
Also why is $100 to little money for a frame with no fork? I assume that if the coop did have any TI that they weren't building on it would be about $100 since most of their frames are under $40.
BTW one reason why I want to build the bike is because I also want to build the wheels. Last I check they had some ultralight rims but they were unbuilt. I think they will let me have some for extra cheep just to get rid of them.

Wildwood 

@HuffyMaster3000
A good place to start might be the C&V Sales subForum.
There is also a For Trade thread - people trade things, sometimes $$ for goods.

I do what you are planning, but with vintage European road bikes (mostly). $150 is generally my upper limit for frame + fork in good condition, but not always.

Also, check out the prior 'clunker build competition' threads = $100 total investment for a bike you must also ride 100mi to prove its' road worthiness. A lot of good ideas.

These 2 I finished today with only bar wrap remaining.


These were more expensive frames, but given all the other expenses - the few extra buck make these a bit more memorable for me.

HuffyMaster3000

I will search the forum for clunkers but I wasn't trying to get a whole bike for $100 just a frame with out the fork. I'm trying to build a midrange bike from older stuff. Is that not possible anymore, is there no midrange?

3alarmer 

...I think maybe you've answered your own question. It's not "bad" in the sense that you seem to want to learn about bicycles, and what makes them go together, to work better or worse. It's just that it takes a lot more time, and in almost every case, it costs more money than looking for a used bicycle, complete with components and wheels. If you look at the various replies, I'm not the only person giving you this advice. This goes especially for someone who has not worked on a vast array of bicycles, in order to familiarize himself with the various standards and measurements that components and frames have used over the years.

The parts stuff at the co-op comes from a large and varied selection of bicycles. If you are not familiar with that variety, and what will fit with which (and work well), you will inevitably spend more money on the stuff to build up your frame, and often end up with something that works less well, than a bike you bought that had the original components and wheels still together with it in a single package. If you want to learn, look for a reasonable quality complete bike that is exactly your size. Take it apart, service and clean everything, then reassemble and adjust everything to spec. Cheaper, and you usually end up with a better finished product.


...I think it's great that you want to learn to construct wheels. But even with cheap rims, you still need to come up with a set of decent hubs (that have the same drilling as the rims). And unless you have a source for spokes, decent spokes for a 36 spoke wheel will run you about 40 bucks, with brass nipples. That's per wheel. Building wheels used to be something that everyman could do, and maybe get a nicer set of wheels and save some money. Then spoke pricing went gradually from 10 cents per spoke to almost a buck per spoke. They are very good spokes, at that price level. And you can shop around and find them cheaper. But it still costs more for an individual to build wheels now, than to just buy something already put together and then work on them to even out the spoke tensions, stress relieve the bends at the hub, and maybe pull up the tensions a little higher. Most machine built wheels won't have that done already.

It's a learning process, and I guess part of the process is learning how this turns out to cost more and take longer. I wish you all the best with it.

3alarmer 

.
...you know that song "One Piece at a Time" ? It's kind of like that.

prj71

$100 gets you a cheap heavy frame.


$100 and mid range can't be used in the same sentence. Short answer is no.

Timothyevans

I many years I rode heavy frame and didn't understand this, now I have a new bike and it is very light, I didn't think this influence so much.

HuffyMaster3000

If I'm looking at say a 600 dollar bike most of the cost of the bike is due to the frame. I originally thought the cost of the bike is was mainly derived from the components.
I did some searching and I am beginning to see the light.
So your saying that if the frame is $100 the total cost of the bike is probably somewhere around $175. I was expecting $100 frame $400 dollar bike.
Am I on the same page as as you now?
Also never mind Ti I see the price will never come down even for Chinese.

Yan 

Frame vs component cost is variable. There is no hard rule. It depends on what you buy. If you get a high end frame and slap cheap parts on it, the frame will be the main cost. If you buy a cheap frame and slap expensive parts on it, the parts will be the main cost.

Also, cheaper parts doesn't have to mean low quality. You could use high quality parts that are slightly outdated, or carefully selected used parts. Same with frames. There are excellent deals out there for high quality used frames. This spring I bought a second hand $3000 frame for $1100 on eBay.

For a mid range build from all new frame and components, I'd say the parts are the bigger cost. $500 for the frame, about $1000 for the parts. $1500 total. That's a lower-mid range build these days. Low range would be $700-1000. Below $700 you get into the below-low range, aka the consumer range. These bikes are perfectly ridable but most hobby cyclist upgrade above this after a couple of years, so here on Bike Forums there's not a lot of discussion about these consumer bikes.

If your budget is below $700 but you still want a high quality "for keeps" bike, it's still very much possible. You just have to look on the used market.