Bulette

I'm curious to hear some opinions and discussion to perhaps reconsider my own perspectives, here. I mostly ride alone, and have become very self-sufficient for it. "Self-sufficiency", in this case, often means stopping a town or two over and spending some cash at a local bakery, donut shop, or at minimum, the C-store. And, as much as I appreciate their service, I also get a 'good feeling' about supporting a local establishment with the hope that they will stay in business for future rides.

Now then, either I've become more involved in the "cycling scene" the last few years, or there really has been an increase in the number of organized event rides, often times with a small (or not so small entry fee). Sometimes, the event organizers will pitch the event as supporting the local community (and sometimes there are legitimate charity drives to speak of). But in other cases, it seems like the pitch to support local is somewhat hollow -- we pay $50-100 and the organizer provides water, snacks, and sometimes even brings along their own food-truck vendors and all -- on these types of rides, then, most riders will rarely step off the route, rarely venture into any C-Store, or support any local diners or dives.

1. If an organized ride uses entirely public right-of-way, and the entrance fee is more 'profit' than 'charity', would you feel guilty about riding along as a 'bandit'**? Why, or why not?
2. Does this change if an organized ride is more so for 'charity'? (Has anybody ever even seen a 'bandit' on an MS150?)
3. Does the price of a ride influence these thoughts? I.e.: A Local Shop Ride where $20 is meant to cover the mid-way water tent (which you might not need) vs a "Big Corporate Sponsor" $60 ride where fees include lunch and a t-shirt (which you do not need)?

** For clarity -- riding along 'bandit' here should assume that you do not and will not need any of the organizers' resources (water, mechanical, SAG, etc), and that you have your own safety net (Uber, family, etc).

njkayaker

Generally speaking, these don't make much "profit".

epnnf

fwiw, Ive never done a charity ride- where you have to collect >$50, or even upwards of $500. The organized rides I go on typically cost around $20; more if you get a shirt (not jersey). Sure, I could bring my own nrg bar, but thats not the point- point is to get together w/riding buds, old & new. Ive never been a bandit- not sure if Ive ever seen anybody else do that; thats really low class.

shelbyfv

If you don't pay, stay the eff away. This is so simple. Poaching is poaching, whether you think the ride is "deserving" or not.

Troul 

If it's a route [part] I normally ride, no. If I am aware of the event taking place prior, I may try a backup route or stet the ride. It's how I am & it's my preference.

Generally, am unlikely to participate in charity rides. Something always throws me off for joining in; rules, time, location, etc

Yes. Too low & it'll often be a poor experience... based on my experience. Too high, my expectations overall get set too high for a major blow.

You're not alone in thinking such. Some rides that were small/moderate in size grew too big & the "rules" along with costs changed, rendering the events unfavorable to me.

Mojo31

Ask Larry Sellerz. He has fully analyzed the issue.

Koyote

Yeah. We just did this. The answer is that it is not okay to poach a for-fee ride. Find another road.

Pratt

A couple of years ago I rode the Erie Canal, E to W. I passed the W to E, official ride at a feed stop. They invited me to partake, and I told them I was a freeloader, they said eat anyway, so I did.

indyfabz

It’s deja vu all over again.

Koyote

Sure, you're entitled to use the same roads -- nothing illegal about it. But there are plenty of other roads; why would you want to pretend to be on an organized ride when you haven't ponied up the fee?

And by the way, both you and LarrySellerz seem to believe that this behavior is justified if the fee is 'too high.' But that's entirely subjective...And since plenty of other riders voluntarily paid the fee, perhaps you might justly be described as a cheap deadbeat.

indyfabz

I ended up riding and camping with ACA’s Cycle Montana in 2016. I paid my own camping fee even though the campground owner would never have known I was not with the tour and bought my own dinner groceries, but I got invited to join the tour for breakfast the next morning.

Crossed paths with the same tour two years earlier at one of their lunch stops. The staff offered me snacks.

indyfabz

Around these parts, “banditry” means you actually help yourself to ride amenities, not just ride on the same roads.

Mojo31

If you’re invited to join in, it’s one thing. If not asked, it’s altogether different.

Kind of like crashing a wedding reception when you’re not invited and didn’t bring a gift.

TiHabanero

Through the late 70's and into 92 our shop sponsored two rides a summer. We had exceptional turnout, upwards of 200 riders every time. Entry fee was $10 in the beginning to cover cost of insurance and food. Did not make a dime off the entry fees, and sales of spare tubes, bags and such didn't cover employee wages for the event. It was a financial loss, however it was part of the marketing budget, thus accepted as a cost of advertising.
The last ride we did before pulling the plug we did not get a rider from the insurance co. to cover it, we just did it as insurance was 6000 bucks for the event. An entry fee of $30 would have been needed to cover the cost of the insurance alone.
Believe me if you are riding on a group ride for $20, the organizers are doing you a favor. To jump into an organized ride without paying the entry fee is something I would not intentionally do.

Rolla

But you are using their resources. Someone organized the ride, mapped and marked the route, promoted the event, and made it happen. That takes resources, for which your participation obligates you to contribute, whether you eat their bananas or not.

indyfabz

indyfabz

I’ve been out on tour and on day rides that have just happened to use the same roads as organized rides. Planned my own routes, had my own cue sheets and had no idea about the events. How did I use their resources?

Rolla

Irrelevant. A coincidental convergence of routes is not the scenario the OP is talking about.

When he asks, "would you feel guilty about riding along as a 'bandit'," he implies that it was a planned, conscious choice to participate without paying.

Koyote

Agreed. Indy is describing genuine coincidence; Larry and the OP are premeditating.

shelbyfv

Yep. Besides which, charity rides often bring out folks brimming with enthusiasm but lacking in skills. Bless their hearts but you could go hoarse. "On your left! NO NO the other left...."

indyfabz

Went back and reread the OP with a more discerning eye and my good glasses. I agree with you. Sorry for the confusion.

CAT7RDR

Only happened once when riding up Hwy 39 in the San Gabriel Mtns I passed a large spread out group of riders doing a diabetes charity ride.
Made some small talk with a few and was invited to stop at the water station up the road. I declined because I "DID NOT PAY FOR IT. "

indyfabz

Proper response. If they then extend an invite, different story​​​​​.

shelbyfv

This thread and the seatbag thread. Ride poachers and never-tubers. The clueless sense of personal entitlement boggles. Were they never taught or were they just born with a short circuit?

downhillmaster

What is wrong with someone that they would be cheap and bitter enough that they would feel the need to tag along with an event ride?
Kinda sorta equal parts pathetic and creepy