Buy or Build? That is the Question...
#26
Senior Member
OK, I realize I may be opening a can of worms here, but what are everyone's feelings on the best buy for the money in a touring bike? Some of these bikes are featuring Alivio components at upwards of $1500. I've even noted Claris on some of them. I'm not sure I'd want to trust a bike with such low end equipment if I was traveling distances of up to 300 miles.
For those of you who have done your homework in the past, I must admit I am just worn out comparing apples to oranges trying to figure all of this out. I am to the point I must admit I am looking for some honest opinions or experiences.
Or, should I just buy a frame and equip it myself. I have build experience, but admit I'd have to do some research in fitting it out with bulletproof components.
I thank everyone in advance. I'm not opposed to finding a site selling units several years old as long as there was a deal to be had.
For those of you who have done your homework in the past, I must admit I am just worn out comparing apples to oranges trying to figure all of this out. I am to the point I must admit I am looking for some honest opinions or experiences.
Or, should I just buy a frame and equip it myself. I have build experience, but admit I'd have to do some research in fitting it out with bulletproof components.
I thank everyone in advance. I'm not opposed to finding a site selling units several years old as long as there was a deal to be had.
For the fact that knowing every component on your bike, how to mount, unmount will help immensely if you have a break down on the road.
But you're right. With all the different drive trains and braking systems, if you don't buy a group set, matching can take a while including component colour (black or silver)
I bought a LHT frame and built it up.Because I used flat bars, the frame size had to be bigger, but in hind site, I would have gotten the smaller frame and put on a longer stem
I got a Hollowtech Deore crankset, but I should have gotten something with a square taper, also should have gotten hubs with simple access bearings instead of the XT fully sealed. Not that I've had any problems, but again, if something happens on the road, easy repairs can save a trip.
Let us know how you do
#27
Senior Member
Marcus. When did xt hubs stop using cup and cone ball bearings? I wasn't aware they changed. What series xt hubs do you have?
I'm certainly not up on the latest XT stuff.
I'm certainly not up on the latest XT stuff.
#28
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I bought a Surly LHT frame and worked with a local bike shop to build it up the way I wanted. STI shifting is better than bar-end to me. I put a smaller small chainring up front for easier hill-climbing.
This will likely be a bike you will never sell so it may make sense to go all-in and make yourself happy with the build.
just my two cents,
Cliff
This will likely be a bike you will never sell so it may make sense to go all-in and make yourself happy with the build.
just my two cents,
Cliff
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#29
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I bought my first steel axle XT M756 hub in 2004, have had to repack the bearings and readjust them a couple times in that wheel since then, I used to tour on that wheel, that wheel is on my rando bike now, has seen a lot of use in the past decade and a half. I have built up two more wheels with steel axle XT hubs since then. (I avoid the newer design Shimano hubs that use an Aluminum axle with smaller bearings.) I was surprised three years ago when I built up the rear wheel for my Backroad that Shimano was still making that hub (M756A) after over a decade. I think you can't beat those steel axle cup and cone hubs that take 1/4 inch ball bearings for touring. That said, I do not know if you can still find them for rim brakes, but it does not hurt to buy a hub for disc even if you use rim brakes on the bike.
#30
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#31
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I bought a Surly LHT frame and worked with a local bike shop to build it up the way I wanted. STI shifting is better than bar-end to me. I put a smaller small chainring up front for easier hill-climbing.
This will likely be a bike you will never sell so it may make sense to go all-in and make yourself happy with the build.
just my two cents,
Cliff
This will likely be a bike you will never sell so it may make sense to go all-in and make yourself happy with the build.
just my two cents,
Cliff
#32
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Pffft to deFaileurs. I had a hybrid that I got a new Deore crank and rear derailleur for. JUNK. The shop couldn't even adjust it properly. YMMV ... Go IGH Rohloff or go home. LOL Mine has 16,500 miles so far. My SA XL-FDD dyno drum has 25,000 miles, NO adjustments needed.
There is a shorter 50s guy's blog on CGOAB, who toured a bunch 2011 to 2019. His last bike was bought in Denmark, spring 2019. He bought a ?$600 girl's CITY bike and put on a basket and bought a tent etc. Alu frame, dyno hub front with canti rim brake. For the rear it had a coaster 7 spd Nexus. He rode it to Istanbul, then all the way to the Baku on the Caspian sea. He then flew to Toronto, stayed a few days, got a tune up and a bigger front rack and rode to Vancouver in 49 days. Both trips avg 61 miles a day. Longest day was 134 miles to Dryden. Then he flew to Sydney Australia, where he rode 5,300 miles up north thru middle Queensland, then thru Alice Springs to the south coast. The gears 2/ 4/ 6 were then starting to sputter. Still was doing 100 mile days in the hot Outback, come Christmas. His GIs were likely 31 to 75. He didn't mind some pushing. 12,330 solo miles in 10 months, unbelievable...
A million other stories out there of course....
There is a shorter 50s guy's blog on CGOAB, who toured a bunch 2011 to 2019. His last bike was bought in Denmark, spring 2019. He bought a ?$600 girl's CITY bike and put on a basket and bought a tent etc. Alu frame, dyno hub front with canti rim brake. For the rear it had a coaster 7 spd Nexus. He rode it to Istanbul, then all the way to the Baku on the Caspian sea. He then flew to Toronto, stayed a few days, got a tune up and a bigger front rack and rode to Vancouver in 49 days. Both trips avg 61 miles a day. Longest day was 134 miles to Dryden. Then he flew to Sydney Australia, where he rode 5,300 miles up north thru middle Queensland, then thru Alice Springs to the south coast. The gears 2/ 4/ 6 were then starting to sputter. Still was doing 100 mile days in the hot Outback, come Christmas. His GIs were likely 31 to 75. He didn't mind some pushing. 12,330 solo miles in 10 months, unbelievable...
A million other stories out there of course....
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 02-03-20 at 01:26 AM.
#33
Senior Member
In my experience, if you know what you’re doing and can put good components on the frame, and if you’re willing to shop for deals, you’ll always get a better bike for the money when you do it yourself. To me, $1,200+ for a bike with lower end components is ridiculous. My last build had hand built wheels with nice Stan’s rims, XT hubs, XT cranks, Ultegra derailers, etc, and cost me probably $1,000. It also took me six months gathering components at good prices. Do you value the ease of buying new or find joy in building?
#34
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https://www.gevenalle.com/shifters/
Road brake levers with built in shifters for whatever setup you want. Let you run Shimano MTB derailleur systems on a road touring setup or whatever road gearing you want.
Road brake levers with built in shifters for whatever setup you want. Let you run Shimano MTB derailleur systems on a road touring setup or whatever road gearing you want.
#35
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In my experience, if you know what you’re doing and can put good components on the frame, and if you’re willing to shop for deals, you’ll always get a better bike for the money when you do it yourself. To me, $1,200+ for a bike with lower end components is ridiculous. My last build had hand built wheels with nice Stan’s rims, XT hubs, XT cranks, Ultegra derailers, etc, and cost me probably $1,000. It also took me six months gathering components at good prices. Do you value the ease of buying new or find joy in building?
#36
Member
My Build
I was more concerned with running a whole road group set when I was looking for a Touring bike. I had a decent Man bike that I wasn't using so I purchased a LHT frame and moved my Man bike drive train over to it. I did need to buy a few things for the swap but much cheaper than spec'ing a whole new drive train.
You'll always want to make Changes and upgrades for comfort as you tour. I'm still riding the same bike and drive train but several new chains, tires and brake pads later. I've also gone through a couple saddles looking for 8 hour comfort. There are plenty of saddles that I can ride for 2-4 hours but for 8 or more you need to find the one.
You'll always want to make Changes and upgrades for comfort as you tour. I'm still riding the same bike and drive train but several new chains, tires and brake pads later. I've also gone through a couple saddles looking for 8 hour comfort. There are plenty of saddles that I can ride for 2-4 hours but for 8 or more you need to find the one.
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#37
Senior Member
I'm not saying I'd come out cheaper overall compared to buying off the shelf. I spent a while slowly obtaining parts from online close-outs and very good condition used from craigslist and the local annual bike swap. I think I probably spent about $1,200 on my last touring build, so it cost me the same as a stock Trucker or something. But, I had a Much better bike in the end. ...Especially since I didn't start with a dull riding boat anchor of a Trucker frame
Truly, I kid. We all have our preferences and as long as we love our own bikes, that's the important part. I'm 100% sure my bike isn't right for plenty of people. Though if you haven't ridden a Trucker, I'd suggest you do before committing to the frame. People tend to really like them, or not like the "long haul trucker" semi-truck feel of them. The top tubes tend to be a bit long for a decent number of people too.
Truly, I kid. We all have our preferences and as long as we love our own bikes, that's the important part. I'm 100% sure my bike isn't right for plenty of people. Though if you haven't ridden a Trucker, I'd suggest you do before committing to the frame. People tend to really like them, or not like the "long haul trucker" semi-truck feel of them. The top tubes tend to be a bit long for a decent number of people too.
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#38
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Off the shelf bikes are pretty good these days, with the possible exception of some "touring" bikes being overgeared for hills. I remember Kentucky has some of those...
So my response is similar when asked "custom or stock?" or "build or buy?" If there's some reason you want something different from a stock bike, go custom or build it yourself. Otherwise, check out what's available on a stock bike, buy it, and ride it until you want something different. (It may take a long time.)
Don't limit yourself one model. Look around, even go for a weekend trip or three to find and ride stock bikes, if that's your decision. Look at least for the following in your size:
- Surly LHT
- Trek 520 (or 720/920, depending on what you want)
- REI Coop 1.1 (or one of the gravel models, if you like)
- Fuji Touring
Test ride each one, and buy the one you want to ride most.
So my response is similar when asked "custom or stock?" or "build or buy?" If there's some reason you want something different from a stock bike, go custom or build it yourself. Otherwise, check out what's available on a stock bike, buy it, and ride it until you want something different. (It may take a long time.)
Don't limit yourself one model. Look around, even go for a weekend trip or three to find and ride stock bikes, if that's your decision. Look at least for the following in your size:
- Surly LHT
- Trek 520 (or 720/920, depending on what you want)
- REI Coop 1.1 (or one of the gravel models, if you like)
- Fuji Touring
Test ride each one, and buy the one you want to ride most.
#39
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#40
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#41
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You write brifters. You may want to look at rapidFire shifters mounted on MTB/touring handlebars. Beats brifters as far as I am concerned.
You may also want to look at various drivetrain configurations. 1x has become very popular. I much prefer 3x with a cassette that ends in corn cob, giving you finer ajustements.
Frame + your picks sure beats stock as far as satisfaction is concerned. Wrt price, might be more expensive at first, but as you'll almost certainly switch saddle, brakes, maybe pedals, rims and tires, it is easy to justify frame +. (XT, back then, was said to provide the best quality/price point. XTR gives a few grams but takes the bank; entry level isn't as durable)
#42
Full Member
There are two significant advantages to building your own bike, IMO.
The first, if you know what you are doing is that you can get exactly what you want.
The second, if you know less about what you are doing is that you learn so much about your bike! On a tour, especially, that is a fantastic asset!
As regards your original question about component levels everyone is different. I think it's more of a psychological issue than an engineering/mechanical one.
From an engineering/mechanical viewpoint I'd think that the availability of spares and the cost of those spares would be the most important, followed by their efficiency/effectiveness.
Having said that, there's no point in choosing an economical groupset only to discover that you can't get up that hill!
For what it's worth I have Acera on my bike. I believe that's the lowest level MTB groupset? I'm perfectly happy with it. It's brought me to lots of places in Europe and I've just done a roundabout coast to coast from Virginia to Mexico.
But that's not much use to you!
Best of luck!
The first, if you know what you are doing is that you can get exactly what you want.
The second, if you know less about what you are doing is that you learn so much about your bike! On a tour, especially, that is a fantastic asset!
As regards your original question about component levels everyone is different. I think it's more of a psychological issue than an engineering/mechanical one.
From an engineering/mechanical viewpoint I'd think that the availability of spares and the cost of those spares would be the most important, followed by their efficiency/effectiveness.
Having said that, there's no point in choosing an economical groupset only to discover that you can't get up that hill!
For what it's worth I have Acera on my bike. I believe that's the lowest level MTB groupset? I'm perfectly happy with it. It's brought me to lots of places in Europe and I've just done a roundabout coast to coast from Virginia to Mexico.
But that's not much use to you!
Best of luck!
#43
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The "300 miles" becomes important when considering the bike overall.
Is that 300 miles in a few days, and a lifetime sitting in the garage?
Or are we talking of a bike that will get continuous use. Perhaps 3000 to 5000 miles a year... every year?
Yes, having a critical failure 300 miles from home is a hassle.
The Claris/Sora/Tiagra should survive 300+ miles assuming they left the house in good condition. Be prepared to fix certain faults that could leave you walking. Chain tool, spoke wrench, couple of basic bike maintenance tools.
What you will find in things like a high use bike is that the lower you go, the lower the quality of bearings and bushings and etc. Precision of adjustment of dérailleurs (which can be a critical issue)?
So, do you need ceramic derailleur bushings in the Ultegra/Dura Ace/XTR lines? Or are steel bushings adequate?
Keep in mind, go down the line, and Shimano will use plastic bushings (no bushings) on the low end bikes. Not necessarily causing a critical failure on the road, but not good enough to hold up as a commuter.
Where else have the companies cut corners? Spokes? Weight? Racks? etc.
Is that 300 miles in a few days, and a lifetime sitting in the garage?
Or are we talking of a bike that will get continuous use. Perhaps 3000 to 5000 miles a year... every year?
Yes, having a critical failure 300 miles from home is a hassle.
The Claris/Sora/Tiagra should survive 300+ miles assuming they left the house in good condition. Be prepared to fix certain faults that could leave you walking. Chain tool, spoke wrench, couple of basic bike maintenance tools.
What you will find in things like a high use bike is that the lower you go, the lower the quality of bearings and bushings and etc. Precision of adjustment of dérailleurs (which can be a critical issue)?
So, do you need ceramic derailleur bushings in the Ultegra/Dura Ace/XTR lines? Or are steel bushings adequate?
Keep in mind, go down the line, and Shimano will use plastic bushings (no bushings) on the low end bikes. Not necessarily causing a critical failure on the road, but not good enough to hold up as a commuter.
Where else have the companies cut corners? Spokes? Weight? Racks? etc.
#45
Senior Member
I need a 22-34 to get up molehills, and proud of it.
but I'll bet you a Sudbury nickel that I can get down a twisty downhill molehill faster than you.
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#46
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#47
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I'm on top of all of those build aspects. The only thing that trips me up sometimes is mixing brands of components like SRAM, Suntour, and Shimano. This would be a new build, and I suspect with Deore XT, and the best triple components I can find. I'd probably do 48/36/24 front or something close.
And, by the way, use that Sora and Tiagra shifter for the front I’d you are using road shifters. They work better as do the Deore (not XT or XTR) shifters. The more expensive ones are too clever by half.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#48
Senior Member
I bought my first steel axle XT M756 hub in 2004, have had to repack the bearings and readjust them a couple times in that wheel since then, I used to tour on that wheel, that wheel is on my rando bike now, has seen a lot of use in the past decade and a half. I have built up two more wheels with steel axle XT hubs since then. (I avoid the newer design Shimano hubs that use an Aluminum axle with smaller bearings.) I was surprised three years ago when I built up the rear wheel for my Backroad that Shimano was still making that hub (M756A) after over a decade. I think you can't beat those steel axle cup and cone hubs that take 1/4 inch ball bearings for touring. That said, I do not know if you can still find them for rim brakes, but it does not hurt to buy a hub for disc even if you use rim brakes on the bike.
#49
Harsh Adventurer
I did a very comprehensive comparison of traditional touring bikes about 6 months ago - feature by feature and component by component. I looked at Surly, Trek, Kona, MASI and several others - all of which were higher than $1,500. In the end I settled on the Co-Op Adv1.1 sold by REI. It is great traditional tourer, with excellent brakes (TRP Hy/Rd), very good components (Deore LX), Schwalbe Marathon tires, an excellent rear AND front rack. Put on a set of pedals ant it ready to tour. It cost $1399 and you will get a 10% store credit that will easily cover the cost of the pedals plus other goodies. Yow won't get the store credit until March. Its the best value for the best mass produced touring bike I could find. Good Luck.
#50
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I did a very comprehensive comparison of traditional touring bikes about 6 months ago - feature by feature and component by component. I looked at Surly, Trek, Kona, MASI and several others - all of which were higher than $1,500. In the end I settled on the Co-Op Adv1.1 sold by REI. It is great traditional tourer, with excellent brakes (TRP Hy/Rd), very good components (Deore LX), Schwalbe Marathon tires, an excellent rear AND front rack. Put on a set of pedals ant it ready to tour. It cost $1399 and you will get a 10% store credit that will easily cover the cost of the pedals plus other goodies. Yow won't get the store credit until March. Its the best value for the best mass produced touring bike I could find. Good Luck.