cyclezealot

How do we handle keeping our electronics charged, while on a group tour , when your have a couple hundred riders, ( camping) and when you get to camp you might have one plug for about a dozen phones. That minus lights , etc. My experience, if you don't rush the chargers, your out of luck.. plus, my high end android, I'm slightly nervous to leave it out of sight.
. I have two power pacs. Each with a capacity of 30,000 mAh . 0ne solar. .
. Our phones are important, being that our cue sheets are on line.
Should the line be crazy at the recharge stations,;should I, carry two power pacs at 30,000 mAh each : would you think that alone would keep my electronics charged for six days. ? Thanks
Our luggage is being carried in a sag wagon.

pdlamb

It's been a few years...

With a 5200 mAhr pack I got two phone charges and a GPS charge (Garmin 800). Next year, a 12000 mAhr pack was good for 3 phone charges and a 1030 GPS charge, and that was down to about 25%. Of course I don't know how many acres your cell phone screen covers, or how far the screen lights up the woods at night, so I don't know how much battery your setup will need.

Two notes. First, if you can get a motel room halfway through the tour, you'll get heating or air conditioning to sleep in one night, plus all the outlets you can dream of. Second, IME a good GPS can run 2-3 days per charge on a typical tour, as opposed to about a day for a phone. Ergo, I'd advise using a GPS and keep the phone off or in airplane mode until you get into town.

tyrion

How much electronics? 60,000 mA would easily keep my phone running for a week (moderate usage). Usually a single 30,000 mA pac lasts me a whole week of travelling.

For heavy electronic usage: see if the support van will charge one of the power pacs, then alternate power pacs.

Juan Foote

I hear if you rub the device back and forth on jeans really quickly that they charge.

Tourist in MSN

I assume your 30,000 mah battery packs are Li Ion. If so, they should be over 100 watt hours each.

If that is not enough for six days to keep your phones alive, I am not sure what would be.

You might want to keep screen off except when actually needed, perhaps a 30 second time out setting, no apps running that are not needed, airplane mode, etc.

If you are running a flashing taillight, if it is one of those ones that is designed to blind anyone within 20 feet, put it on a minimal setting. Touring, my flasher (Planet Bike Superflash) is still bright after a week with two AAA batteries.

If you are using cue sheets instead of GPS mapping, is there a reason that you can't print them out ahead of time? If your cue sheets have to be electronic, is there a reason you can't load them into a file to put on your memory card so you can keep the data plan for your cell turned off?

Pratt

One bike has a dynamo hub. It powers lights, that's taken care of. It will also recharge AA batteries in a little Sunjack charger. The batteries will power the eTrex. It will, at speed, charge the phone. Here, in New England, that means on the downhills.
The other bike does not have a generator. I carry spare batteries for the head and tail lights, and for a flashlight. An Anker solar panel will charge the phone, and will charge the AAs in the Sunjack. I also carry a battery pack that will charge the phone. I don't know if the solar panel will charge the battery pack.
As usual, pdlamb has an excellent suggestion, an occasional night in a bed can recharge all the batteries.

gauvins

[edit] I had assumed that you were the event organizer. If not, then your problem is much easier to deal with. Get a fast recharging battery - some will accept 60W - and matching charger.
[/edit]

1. You write "couple of hundred riders". Let's say 200 and assume that they need a full charge every day. A typical phone battery holds 4Ah. Assume charging efficiency of 60%. You'll need 200 x 4 / .6 = 1300Ah. Your battery packs hold 60Ah. This won't do.

2. The real nightmare will be to connect hundreds of phones to a couple of battery packs. I'd think that this is a specialist's job. I'd look into purchasing smaller battery banks to hand out to the riders, and recharge them from the sag wagon's alternator + converter + power strip + high capacity PD chargers (60W).

Interesting problem. (As someone noted, if riders sleep in hotels, most would be able to charge their device overnight, from a wall outlet. Your mobile system would act as an emergency charging station).

mev

Note: Some group tours might provide a common station for charging phones. A good example is Pedal the Plains in eastern Colorado where the largest sponsor (Viaero Wireless) had a booth where you could drop off your phone and plug it to be charged. They would give you a ticket that you later used when retrieving your phone.

The other thing I would consider is whether to bring along a Goal Zero type solar charger as well.

KC8QVO

Lots of members here will probably laugh at my set up - but I have a 12v power system on my bike. It is most definitely "unconventional" in the realm of normal cycling, but maybe this will all give you some food for thought.

I am a Ham radio operator and take some radio stuff with me on my rides. Using a 12v base system gives me a ton of versatility so it is the obvious choice. I can even run a 120v AC power inverter off it to keep up with my regular laptop power adapter - which I do from time to time.

All this, of course, adds weight and bulk. Hence where the laughter usually comes from. Thats OK. I don't mind. I am not out to win races - I am out to have a comfortable trip and I would rather have some decent power available.

For charging I use solar panels. Combined my panels are around 18-20 watts in good sun. They are flexible - like solar bumper stickers.

I have run the smaller of the 2 panels while riding before - strapped over my panniers on the back rack - and had decent results. The better option is to support the panels from rods or sticks so it can be aimed better towards the direction of the sun. That wouldn't work when riding in crowded conditions, though.

For a battery I use a 12Ah Bioenno LiFePO4 lithium battery. I will say it does work a ton better than any of the 12Ah or under SLA batteries I've ever had, at a lot less weight, but after touring for a few weeks in 2020 in wet rainy conditions I found the 12Ah not to be enough for what I need. I can't take a 0 day in camp waiting out a monsoon with adequate juice. I may upgrade to a 30Ah for just that reason.

An idea I am currently working on is a wheel generator for a utility trailer. Down the road I want to build the equivalent of a home made wind turbine alternator on to one or both trailer wheels that has variable coils so I can switch in what coils I want to pull power from for the conditions. Say, if I am cruising down hill or am coming to a stop - switch in all the coils so I can get the most charge current. If I am on flat ground and pedaling but I need some juice - have light coils hooked in.

If you work off the law of averages - light power generation all day vs heavy power generation for a few short down hill runs will give you more power at the end of the day.

Do a search for my username and various power terms - solar, battery, charger, etc. There is a good bit on the forums here from the past couple years. Some threads linked below - not all inclusive, though (try searching):

The first link has a video linked in it I did after the 1st half of my fall 2020 tour. There is a picture slideshow towards the end of the video if you don't want to watch the whole thing (find the video on Youtube and see the description there for timestamps on the sections to help navigate it - the video just plays direct in the forum here, I don't see a link to play on YT but maybe your browser will give you that option). I did a pretty complete gear break-down. There is a segment specifically on Electronics.

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...trip-pics.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...-rain-row.html

https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-b...out-today.html

Good luck and happy riding!

Tourist in MSN

If you are the event organizer, you need quite a few power outlet strips and maybe a carton of three into one outlet adapters. Or you need to tell everybody that you recommend they bring enough power capacity in powerbanks to provide for themselves.

This might be the best price if you are buying dozens of them. I bought some of those a year or two ago, they are as good as any of the others.
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/koppla-...hite-70086401/

The last time I did a week long van supported trip (participant, not organizer), I think I had one small powerbank to keep my phone charged. My GPS uses AA batteries, brought enough for a week. My taillight and my headlamp (for my head in the campsite) did not need replacement batteries.

But I do two week long kayak trips, bring enough AA batteries for two weeks on those trips. That is in part why I use a GPS that takes AA batteries instead of an internal battery.

indyfabz

We don’t behave like that here in Touring. Please find another forum to pollute.

indyfabz

Every organized supposed camping tour I have been on in the days of electronics has had ample charging stations. If you will be camping in places with buildings (e.g., public schools) you can usually find outlets in places like hallways. Like showering, try charging at off hours. If you go out to a bar, etc., ask if you can charge there.

If you’re that worried about security, bring a pack and charge that. Probably cheaper to replace than other electronics. I recently got a 30,000 as company meeting swag. That’s what I do on unsupported tours if I don’t have power at my site. For example, I’ll charge it in the bathhouse while I shower.

If your phone is like my iPhone, it will charge more quickly on low power or airplane mode. Keep it in low power mode when not immediately using it. That greatly extends the charge. Conserving power when you can is the best way to reduce the need to charge.

saddlesores

are you asking because of (negative) personal experience, or just wondering what if's?
have you participated in any large, organized rides?

is this one particular ride you're concerned with? if so, maybe post the name.
shirley someone here has been there, done that.
each event is unique, some events are less well-planned than others.
and of course.......have you contacted the organizer?

and .............as this is an organized ride with hundreds of riders:

will the organizer provide cue sheets or strip maps or download files?
do you even need cue sheets if you'll be following a pack?
will there be physical signage/markers along the way?
will the event have ******* or guides or info stops?
does everybody need to run a gps alla time?
like, do you really need gps directions and cues when you're in the middle of a pack
of hundreds of riders all going to the same place?

GhostRider62

You might get 4-6 phone charges out of those two power packs. Is that enough for 6 days?

Personally, I would not want to rely upon cell service for navigation. I only use a GPS device with the route and maps stored on it. Plus, this is a much less energy intensive practice. I think using your phone to access online cuesheets is the problem to solve. Why not print them out and laminate in advance? Then, keep the phone off when riding.

When you stop at a restaurant, MacDonalds or minimart during the day, plug it. With a fast charger, it is pretty remarkable how much juice you can pack in during a 30-60 minute stop.

staehpj1

If I needed to I'd be inclined to minimize battery usage rather than optimize charging. Keep phone in airplane mode or off when possible, Definitely keep the display dimmed or off when not in use. You can go to various extremes to save battery. With your battery packs you probably don't need to do most of the following because you have a lot of capacity, but...

Some ways that battery can be conserved. If the route is simple make a mental note of the turns at the start of the day and turn the phone off if battery capacity is really that tight. If you need to you could go low tech and scribble down some paper notes and only fire up the phone when in doubt. Use daily texts or emails composed off line to keep in touch with home if necessary. Textx and emails go through more easily than voice calls with a poor signal and use way less battery. Never have the phone on and ready to receive calls. Set expectations at home that you will check email and texts a couple times per day but won't be reachable by voice calls. That will go a long way toward saving battery. I have had no problem stretching a charge a week if I needed to usually on backpacking trips even when using the phone as a gps.

All that said... You probably have enough power in the battery banks that you don't need to worry all that much about being so extreme in conserving.

staehpj1

It kind of didn't click with me that the OP was intending to use online cue sheets real time. I don't get why they would do that. I can't see a reason not to either print then or if opposed to paper download them to the phone. Are they not available ahead of time or something? Even then, print them at the start of the day as a pdf on the phone or save them in whatever format they are in (html, doc, etc) on the phone.

GhostRider62

One of the reasons I like my Garmin 1030 is the popup turns for navigation. Nice and big with good resolution and virtually foolproof in my experience. I also have a field showing the distance to the next turn. If it says 15 miles, I know I am on easy street and also it serves as a quick reference. If it says 1 mile, I know I need to be paying attention. When I crossed the country on bike a few years ago, I used my GPS but I also had the cuesheets printed doublesided and laminated. It was not that many pieces of paper.

Tourist in MSN

Those powerbanks should provide a lot more than that. For example some of these:
https://www.amazon.com/30000mah-powe...mah+power+bank

gauvins

[as this thread seems definitely about managing an individual's energy budget, a few considerations follow]

Three things to consider:

1. Ways to reduce your energy budget
2. Ways to generate energy
3. Ways to store energy

1. Unless you plan to carry an air conditioner, the most power hungry device is probably your smartphone. Even if you try to minimize energy consumption by using airplane mode, low screen brightness, etc. smartphone navigation will empty your battery each and every day. Transitioning to a bike computer or handheld GPS "may" improve things a bit, but in my experience not by much. After using my phone to navigate for a couple of years, I've transitioned to a Garmin Enduro. Back of the envelope, I'd say that the Enduro is more than 100 times more efficient than a phone and nearly as good if you are comfortable with breadcrumb navigation (an older Fenix with breadcrumb is quite good and significantly less expensive). I've tried an e-ink phone, but would not recommend it unless you are a geek. Autonomy is greatly improved in comparison with a typical smartphone, but a smartwatch is much much better. Now, if you want to check your email or find the nearest McDonald's, an e-ink smartphone will get you 4 times as much autonomy as your typical (AM)OLED device. I also typically travel with an InReach device (1 month between recharges, on a 3100mAh battery if used to send a daily fix) and 2 Petzl Bindi headlights with a burn time of 50 hours on a diminutive 680mAh battery (200hrs in flashing red mode. Unbelievable . So, in essence, phone-based navigation is an important stressor. Smartwatch navigation is liberating.

2. One can either generate electricity from a dynohub, harvest the sun with a panel, or plug into the grid. I have all three. My energy needs being minimal, a tiny panel sitting on top of the handlebar bag should provide enough electricity to more than fill my needs. But it is unproven and based on previous experiences with a larger folding 7W panel, unreliable (requires sunny skies, finicky to position on a moving bike, etc.). A dynohub is certainly more appropriate. Fantastic for commuting, but, may prove delicate to travel with (cables can be torn during transit if you aren't careful -- I wasn't). Plugging into the grid is probably the most reliable/efficient mean to get electrons into your equipment. Key for a grid-based strategy is to get a battery bank with high acceptance. i.e. that you can recharge fast. More in 3.

3. Being energy frugal, I can use my phone as a battery bank -- some phones (e.g. Galaxy S10) can be used to recharge another phone. This feature can be used to recharge other small electronics as well. The phone can be left connected to the dynohub during the day (or solar panel) and then used to recharge the watch/inReach/Bindi during lunch break or at night. Yet, a battery bank provides an additional layer of security. The most interesting might be Elecjet's Apollo graphene bank, a 5000mAh that can be fully recharged in less than 20 minutes with a 60W wall charger. Expensive, but lightweight and impressively efficient. More reasonable alternatives are plenty. The point here is that carrying a battery bank that recharges with a measly 2.1A/5V charger will tie you to the wall for a very long time. At the moment I travel with a 5000mAh Anker with 20W acceptance. Fair enough, but the graphene option appeals to me .

[EDIT] Elecjet is running an Indigogo raiser for their latest iteration. Their new battery has an acceptance of 87W and the bundled charger pushes 120W. The claim, apparently verified, is a full recharge 10 000mAh recharge in less than 30 minutes, and weighs 230 grams.

GhostRider62

30,000 mah at 3.7 volts should provide around 20,000 at 5 volts. I am guess a big honking android battery is 5-10,000 mah.....that I do not know. I think my iPhone takes just under 5 mah.


I get 23-27 hours on my Garmin 1030. So, a couple days.

Tourist in MSN

My phone is roughly five years old (Android 7), batteries are 2200 or 2400 mah. When I go on a camping trip I swap extra phone batteries instead of recharging the phone. But bike touring, the dynohub provides the power to charge it. So, I am a poor one to compare against. There is no way I could see my phone on a sunny day, I would not even try.

But even if the OPs phone takes five times as big a battery as mine, if he brings over 200 watt hours of battery power, he should be in great shape.

My dynohub and Sinewave Revolution averages about 2.5 watts for output when I do an exercise ride on flat ground. Add some hills, stop lights and stop signs, I assume less than two watts on average. So, if his 200 watt hours of powerbank capacity is insufficient, a dynohub is not going to fix it.

I do not use a cycling specific GPS, I use a Garmin 64, runs on AA batteries. I get a bit over 12 hours with a pair of rechargeable NiMH AA batteries with backlight off, a bit less with backlight on, but I can charge them in the GPS with a powerbank while riding. (Garmin will say you can't charge NiMH AA batteries in it, but there is a work around.)

Bike touring, I bring a 44 watt hour powerbank that I charge from the dynohub, that meets all my needs as long as I do not waste power, etc. Phone in airplane mode or off unless I am using it, minimize screen time, only use phone with warm battery, etc.

str

do you never stop in a hotel, hostal or restaurant ) ? what is the weight of two times 30.000mAh packs?

indyfabz

Not much of an issue when a truck carries your gear for you, like the OP will enjoy.

gauvins

A little over a pound each (Anker 28600mAh: 495g/17.5oz)

Tourist in MSN

Sounds about right. The one I use for bike touring is less than half the capacity of that, but weighs in at 300 grams, or a bit over half.