smontanaro 

I suspect pre-Delrin would up the cost significantly. In parallelogram derailleurs your options are (I think) Juy 61 and Raid Export 32.

Road Fan

I assumed Juy was pre Delrin, but I haven't studied these very closely.

tcs

The Cyclo Standard (production through ~1962) would be the cat's pajamas, if you could find a bolt-on model & the required dual cable shifter.

26 max cog, 34 wrap

tcs

A bit out of the target era but very high zoot: the Campagnolo Rally.

Aardwolf

Velobase has that as 1974,
so I'd probably wait a year and get SunTour Cyclone

smontanaro 

That's true, but they are fairly hard to come by and generally not cheap when found.

3alarmer 

...I don't use them very much, and even on French bikes with Simplex dropouts, I often replace them with Shimano Crane (short or long cage available). But they do work relatively well in terms of shifting, because of the dual spring loaded pivots (top and bottom) on the cage. I don't need that much of a range on most of my riding, so Alpine gearing makes little sense in my local geography. If it were me, I'd just forget about period specific from the 60's, and go with what works. I do that all the time. Everyone now riding these 1960's frames was young in the 60's, assuming they were born at all. When I was young, wide range gearing seemed less important to me.

It was years into the 1980's before I could afford anything more expensive than a lesser Peugeot, anyway. So I have fiddled with a lot of Simplex plastic derailleur stuff.

3alarmer 

...those things are beautiful, but hardly cost effective. Even the original Campy Gran Sport models have become increasingly expensive on ebay, which I discovered the last time I looked to buy one. And they made and sold a lot of those things.

79pmooney

I ran my Peugeot UO-8 with a 14-28 (52-36, one of those early compact cranksets) and the stock Simplex. 1967. Worked but was close enough to capacity that it could not handle both the freewheel and the teenage owner.

TomJD

Assuming you never cross chain the 52-28 or 36-14 combinations, do you really need 30 tooth wrap?

3alarmer 

.
...again, in the FWIW department, I'm pretty sure Holdsworth was making all their frames in the 60's to order, so you'd need to pay attention to what yours has in that regard.
Unless you are willing to modify those, this kind of limits your choice of a rear derailleur, if you want to stick with the 1960's. The frame was built with that in mind.



Apparently, they used Agrati dropouts in some years, Campagnolo in others. I have never owned one, or even seen one in person. But since you say you do not yet have the frame, it's something you might want to study before you buy one.


My guess would be most of them rode around with Campagnolo Gran Sport stuff, if equipped with derailleurs, but I've only seen photos, and never lived in England. The French were the driving force behind wider gearing ranges, from French bicycle touring in the previous decades.

John E

I worked at a Peugeot/Nishiki dealership 1972-1974. Most UO-8s, UO-18s (mixtes), and AO-8s (UO-8 with wingnuts, half-taped bars, and no fork chrome) came through with 52-40/14-28 10-speed gearing on Simplex Prestige derailleurs.

markk900

…. and they still shift like crap! 😎

it’s mostly the inadequate front derailleur: the rear simplex works fine IME to at least 28T; but the front struggles to lift the chain from the 36 or 40 small to the 52 large at the front. Moving to non-period correct suntour up front solves that issue!

Road Fan

I can’t say you’re wrong, but I had several friends buy them 1968, '69 and '70 in the Chicago market, and I saw 52-36 and freewheels smaller than 28.

I was also jonesing for one, but could not make the timing work out. Plus when I brought up my French grades to A- my dad bought me the Rossignoli. Chicago was a fast market back then, had to be ready to strike, and there weren’t that many stores.

John E

I agree completely. Pushrod front derailleurs were designed for half-step gearing; anything works better when you have 1.5-step or crossover gearing. My 1960 Campag. Gran Sport is somewhat tolerable, but the cage moves slightly upward as it moves outward, which helps a bit, and it is also far better made than the Simplex Delrin thing. Having said that, I did wear out my first Gran Sport because of internal wear in the aluminum case -- the first owner evidently didn't keep it adequately lubed.

In 1974 I built my UO-8 from a bare frame for my wife and chose a Shimano Titlist front and a SunTour V-GT rear, which worked well with the 52-42/16-18-21-24-32 "early Megarange" gearing I set up for her. When she became too intimidated by traffic and switched to trail riding and mountain biking, I repurposed the UO-8 as my beater/commuter, keeping the Titlist up front and switching to a short cage SunTour Cyclone II in back, with 45-42 / 13-26 12-speed gearing.

John E

Yes -- we saw 50-36 and 52-36 / 14-26 before they standardized on 52-40 / 14-28, which provides better shifting and gear ratio progression as a true 1.5-step "alpine" setup.

The PA-10s came through with PX-10 gearing, 52-45 / 14-21, which almost every customer requested replaced with a 14-28.

dddd

I use 52/36t on two bikes, one with a 13-28t six-speed and one with a 13-24t five speed freewheel.

Speaking to the ratio progression, these setups seem ideal, not for achieving a "true ten-speed" but for providing an easy-to-operate (under at least semi-sporting and hilly conditions) 8- and 7-speed gear sequences having uniform ratio gaps.
There is just one double-shift (back-shift of the rear derailer) whenever the front derailer is used.
As compared to 42-52 gearing, where a front shift is treated as just one gearing increment with freewheels having medium-width gaps of 2, 3, and 4 teeth.

As for the Allvit, I've used a short-cage Schwinn version with 39-52 chainrings and a 14-30t freewheel, but did have to relieve the inner cage plate with a Dremel where it contacted the largest cog when running on the 2nd-largest cog.

Here's 52/36t using a 13-24t 5s freewheel:


Here's the knee-action Allvit, stretched to it's limits using a 14-30t Ultra-6 freewheel. Note that having to extend inward to reach a largest sixth cog increases the clearance due to the linkage's arcing trajectory:

Aardwolf

Here's quite an interesting write up of the Huret Allvit: https://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com...et-allvit.html

markk900

Aardwolf : thanks for that link, it helps explain a lot. I have only one bike with Allvit, and while I don’t break cables (shifters were changed to SunTour stem shifters) it truly is hard to shift into the large cog (70s chain and sprocket!). I also had a Svelto equipped bike (now moved on to someone who will use it regularly) and that bike shifted at the rear much better!

BITD we “knowledgeable bikers” (at age 10 or so) were divided into 3 camps: Shimano Lark (the lowest of the low), Huret Allvit (acceptable because it was French but otherwise meh); and Simplex Prestige - the top of the top (for we gas pipe bikers). Interesting how thoughts can change…..my wife’s nice “new” Peugeot A08 with original alpine gearing powered by Simplex shifts awfully, while my A08 with half step powered by Suntour shifts like butter!

markk900

I know this thread has kinda died out but wanted to do a quick follow up: the thread got me thinking just how badly the front simplex prestige works with a 52-36 chainwheel setup, so I slapped on a Shimano 600 Arabesque (literally took under 5 minutes - no need to change the cable, the housing or anything! Do need to touch up the paint though) and the difference is remarkable. And for Aardwolf I think looks perfectly period correct! For reference: freewheel is a Suntour 14-28, I was going to change the rear to a matching Shimano 600 Arabesque rear but thought I would leave it for now, and the front as mentioned is a 52-36 Cyclo.

Aardwolf

Cheers,
I hadn't considered Shimano 600.

I did find a cheap Cyclone II GT RD on Ebay though