Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Hands up, Surrender!! I lost to a freewheel today.

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Hands up, Surrender!! I lost to a freewheel today.

Old 02-14-16, 04:49 PM
  #1  
Ex Pres 
Cat 6
Thread Starter
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,519
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times in 118 Posts
Hands up, Surrender!! I lost to a freewheel today.

The opponent - a Regina Extra 2 prong 5s
The reason: broken drive side spoke.
The bike: 1973 Holdsworth Record, in a complete teardown and rebuild.

A previous owner had attempted to remove this one before, as the slots were already mangled.
Round one - chisel the pieces off, soak in PB Blaster, get the remover to seat properly, attach skewer, place in vice, turn.
Result: Break my cheap cast vice. First tool down & out. Freewheel still stuck.

Round two - use a wrench with a cheater pipe.
Result: continued shredding of the removal tangs, just enlarging the slots, now about triple the original width. No movement.

Round three - time for destructive phase. Get out the chain whips. The first cog comes off, but with difficulty and too much force.
Result: first victory

Round four - second cog. Need a cheater bar, but I eventually win.
Result: this round to me, two in a row

Round five - third cog. Cheater bar again, and have to repair one chain whip after it snaps a link. But cog eventually unscrews.
Result: third one for the good guys.

But then round six - fourth cog. One tooth breaks off cog 4, one tooth bent on cog 5. Both chain whips break a link and have to be repaired. Nothing budges.
Result: I wave the white flag. FREEWHEEL wins.
I cut all the spokes, remove the internals, and now I have find a hub & lace up a new wheel, plus obtain a freewheel, two things that weren't on the to-do list.

That's my story of a wasted afternoon.
Lost to any components recently?
Ex Pres is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 05:02 PM
  #2  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by Ex Pres
The opponent - a Regina Extra 2 prong 5s
The reason: broken drive side spoke.
The bike: 1973 Holdsworth Record, in a complete teardown and rebuild.

A previous owner had attempted to remove this one before, as the slots were already mangled.
Round one - chisel the pieces off, soak in PB Blaster, get the remover to seat properly, attach skewer, place in vice, turn.
Result: Break my cheap cast vice. First tool down & out. Freewheel still stuck.

Round two - use a wrench with a cheater pipe.
Result: continued shredding of the removal tangs, just enlarging the slots, now about triple the original width. No movement.

Round three - time for destructive phase. Get out the chain whips. The first cog comes off, but with difficulty and too much force.
Result: first victory

Round four - second cog. Need a cheater bar, but I eventually win.
Result: this round to me, two in a row

Round five - third cog. Cheater bar again, and have to repair one chain whip after it snaps a link. But cog eventually unscrews.
Result: third one for the good guys.

But then round six - fourth cog. One tooth breaks off cog 4, one tooth bent on cog 5. Both chain whips break a link and have to be repaired. Nothing budges.
Result: I wave the white flag. FREEWHEEL wins.
I cut all the spokes, remove the internals, and now I have find a hub & lace up a new wheel, plus obtain a freewheel, two things that weren't on the to-do list.

That's my story of a wasted afternoon.
Lost to any components recently?
It's been forever and a day, but IIRC you only have to take off the last cog to get to the cone/cover plate thing. Take that off with a pin tool (reverse threaded) and the whole outer body can come off. Bearings will go everywhere.

If the removal slots are that mangled the freewheel is toast anyway, so don't feel too bad. Cutting the spokes was probably a mistake. You'll never get the freewheel body off the hub now.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 05:44 PM
  #3  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,878

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked 2,177 Times in 957 Posts
Part of the challenge on cogs 4 and 5 (largest two), they thread off in reverse from the back of the freewheel body, so there is no way to remove them while the freewheel body is still attached to the hub.

Too bad this has been a challenge but they can be real PITA. I had to remove one using the destructive method a week ago.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com





pastorbobnlnh is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 05:51 PM
  #4  
CroMo Mike 
All Campy All The Time
 
CroMo Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 1,425

Bikes: Listed in my signature.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 63 Posts
Broke the vise? Now that's a tough one.

A used Regina probably had minimal value, but what kind of hub was involved?
__________________
My C&V Bikes:
1972 Bottecchia Professional, 1972 Legnano Olympiade Record,
1982 Colnago Super, 1987 Bottecchia Team C-Record,
1988 Pinarello Montello, 1990 Masi Nuova Strada Super Record,
1995 Bianchi Campione d'Italia, 1995 DeBernardi Thron









CroMo Mike is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 05:53 PM
  #5  
Metacortex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,371

Bikes: Fillet-brazed Schwinns

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Ex Pres
The opponent - a Regina Extra 2 prong 5s...
...Result: I wave the white flag. FREEWHEEL wins.
I've posted this before but it bears repeating:

From what I've seen the easiest and fastest way to non-destructively remove a freewheel with stripped or damaged notches is to use a #8 easy-out tool. This was how Schwinn dealers were taught to do it back in the '60s and '70s. You can get the tool here: Irwin 52408 #8 Easy Out Screw Extractor



I never let the freewheel win.
Metacortex is offline  
Likes For Metacortex:
Old 02-14-16, 06:19 PM
  #6  
Salamandrine 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,287

Bikes: 78 Masi Criterium, 68 PX10, 2016 Mercian King of Mercia, Rivendell Clem Smith Jr

Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2317 Post(s)
Liked 597 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by Metacortex
I've posted this before but it bears repeating:

From what I've seen the easiest and fastest way to non-destructively remove a freewheel with stripped or damaged notches is to use a #8 easy-out tool. This was how Schwinn dealers were taught to do it back in the '60s and '70s.
The big easy out does seem like a good way. I never learned that one somehow, I guess because I never worked in a Schwinn shop.
Salamandrine is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 06:20 PM
  #7  
eschlwc
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Posts: 4,859

Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 21 Times in 16 Posts
"Lost to any components recently?"

yes. same thing finally happened to me after previously never losing to a freewheel. buggered my suntour removal tool in the process.

but i did something really stupid afterwards. i found an ofmega replacement hub, measured it, and ordered spokes, only to find out while lacing that it's a 32h hub for a 36h rim.

so i found a campy hub online. we'll see if it's close enough to use the same new spokes. not too worried, but i hate myself a little bit more.
eschlwc is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 07:31 PM
  #8  
Ex Pres 
Cat 6
Thread Starter
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,519
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
It's been forever and a day, but IIRC you only have to take off the last cog to get to the cone/cover plate thing. Take that off with a pin tool (reverse threaded) and the whole outer body can come off. Bearings will go everywhere.

If the removal slots are that mangled the freewheel is toast anyway, so don't feel too bad. Cutting the spokes was probably a mistake. You'll never get the freewheel body off the hub now.
I decided the hub wasn't worth saving after taking it down, so that's why I ended the pain.

Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh
Part of the challenge on cogs 4 and 5 (largest two), they thread off in reverse from the back of the freewheel body, so there is no way to remove them while the freewheel body is still attached to the hub.
I guess that's why the tools broke first

Originally Posted by CroMo Mike
Broke the vise? Now that's a tough one.

A used Regina probably had minimal value, but what kind of hub was involved?
A Campy N. Tipo. If it had been nicer I would have worried about it. The PO had been running it dry.
It was only a cheap cast Lowe's vice, but still that's pretty pitiful. I'll spring for a forged job next time.
Ex Pres is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 07:37 PM
  #9  
Ex Pres 
Cat 6
Thread Starter
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,519
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by Metacortex
I've posted this before but it bears repeating:

From what I've seen the easiest and fastest way to non-destructively remove a freewheel with stripped or damaged notches is to use a #8 easy-out tool.
I never let the freewheel win.
You know, I might even have one of those in the tool box. Didn't even think about using it. I'll file this away, as I have another Regina that may need the treatment, and I need to save the wheel. Thanks.

Last edited by Ex Pres; 02-14-16 at 07:51 PM.
Ex Pres is offline  
Old 02-14-16, 07:58 PM
  #10  
stardognine
Partially Sane.
 
stardognine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Sunny Sacramento.
Posts: 3,562

Bikes: Soma Saga, pre-disc

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 972 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 643 Times in 468 Posts
Yep, I somewhat recently lost to a seatpost, that's really stuck in a Rockhopper frame. I haven't totally given up yet, but that particular frame is safely stored out of sight, for now.
stardognine is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 09:12 AM
  #11  
unworthy1
Stop reading my posts!
 
unworthy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,959
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1422 Post(s)
Liked 1,038 Times in 769 Posts
hate to hear it but SOME times you have to give give one up to the Bicycle Gremlins...the next battle will go your way.
Thanks to metacortex for the easyout suggestion, I would not have thought of that one and don't think I own one that big (no. 8), but next time I will buy one if/when the need arises.
unworthy1 is offline  
Likes For unworthy1:
Old 02-16-16, 09:50 AM
  #12  
Chombi
Senior Member
 
Chombi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,138

Bikes: 1986 Alan Record Carbonio, 1985 Vitus Plus Carbone 7, 1984 Peugeot PSV, 1972 Line Seeker, 1986(est.) Medici Aerodynamic (Project), 1985(est.) Peugeot PY10FC

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 34 Times in 27 Posts
Tightest freewheel I ever had to remove was also a Regina. Thankfully it had splines on its body instead of slots, or I would have had the,same results as you had. It came off after what felt like enough force I had to exert on the end of my largest adjustable wrench, so much that it felt like I could have broken or ruptured something in my torso. The wheel made a some weird noises, that sounded scary, but it held together.....
Weird thing was, I was expecting to see all sorts of corrosion between the FW body and hub threads, but there was hardly any to be seen....
Chombi is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 10:34 AM
  #13  
Fahrenheit531 
52psi
 
Fahrenheit531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,134

Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 800 Times in 390 Posts
I ran into the same thing with the Regina freewheel on my Paramount. In the end I was victorious, but it wasn't pretty and the freewheel was destroyed.

On a different stuck freewheel I had to leave it with the guys at the coop who welded a long bar to the outside of it and removed it that way. Even with the extra leverage and several people involved they said it was an epic struggle.
__________________
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
Fahrenheit531 is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 10:52 AM
  #14  
SJX426 
Senior Member
 
SJX426's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,580

Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8

Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Liked 2,189 Times in 1,093 Posts
Lost to a seatpost too. This is what is left of it as I won getting it removed but lost the post!
[IMG]WP_20160107_002, on Flickr[/IMG]
__________________
Bikes don't stand alone. They are two tired.
SJX426 is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 12:17 PM
  #15  
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,775
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
It's been forever and a day, but IIRC you only have to take off the last cog to get to the cone/cover plate thing. Take that off with a pin tool (reverse threaded) and the whole outer body can come off. Bearings will go everywhere.

If the removal slots are that mangled the freewheel is toast anyway, so don't feel too bad. Cutting the spokes was probably a mistake. You'll never get the freewheel body off the hub now.
agreed. That's what I would have done. Dismantle the freewheel and put it in a vice and then get it off. Freewheel is sacrificial but at least you have the hub.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 01:14 PM
  #16  
AngryFrankie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 637

Bikes: Trek 400 Elance, Losa Winner, 1994 Schwinn Paramount, Specialized Tarmac Pro, Miele SLX, Ibis Ripley, Colnago Oval CX, 84 Masi GC, 1986 Schwinn Voyageur, 1988 Schwinn Tempo, 1998 Schwinn Peloton, 1991 Paramount Ser3

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times in 53 Posts
Yeah, this seems to be the way to go. Gut the freewheel by removing that outer dust/bearing retainer plate, the reverse threads, and put a pipe wrench on the core of the freewheel. Something is going to give, usually what's left of the freewheel.

Originally Posted by Salamandrine
It's been forever and a day, but IIRC you only have to take off the last cog to get to the cone/cover plate thing. Take that off with a pin tool (reverse threaded) and the whole outer body can come off. Bearings will go everywhere.

If the removal slots are that mangled the freewheel is toast anyway, so don't feel too bad. Cutting the spokes was probably a mistake. You'll never get the freewheel body off the hub now.
AngryFrankie is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 01:38 PM
  #17  
Drillium Dude 
Banned.
 
Drillium Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PAZ
Posts: 12,394
Mentioned: 255 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2588 Post(s)
Liked 4,823 Times in 1,709 Posts
Originally Posted by SJX426
Lost to a seatpost too. This is what is left of it as I won getting it removed but lost the post!
[IMG]WP_20160107_002, on Flickr[/IMG]
That's a picture to be proud of

DD
Drillium Dude is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 02:02 PM
  #18  
Ex Pres 
Cat 6
Thread Starter
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,519
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times in 118 Posts
Originally Posted by Salamandrine
It's been forever and a day, but IIRC you only have to take off the last cog to get to the cone/cover plate thing. Take that off with a pin tool (reverse threaded) and the whole outer body can come off.
Since it's been soaking for a few extra days I may give this another shot tonight. I wasn't sure which way the plate should move - but it wasn't going anywhere with just a pin tool at the time.
Ex Pres is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 10:13 PM
  #19  
RandolphCarter
PeopleCode delaminator
 
RandolphCarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Round Lake. NY
Posts: 376

Bikes: 1986 Trek 310 Elance, 1997 Schwinn HydraGlide, 1987 Trek Antelope 800, 2003 Haro F4, 198? Allsop Offroad Climber

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked 150 Times in 66 Posts
Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
That's a picture to be proud of

DD
Indeed it is!

So far, here's my favorite seatpost removal result:




But, back on topic, I've snapped the threaded portion of a hub shell off in an attempt to remove a seized up rusty freewheel. I suspect he hub may have already been damaged, so no real loss.
RandolphCarter is offline  
Old 02-16-16, 11:18 PM
  #20  
Gavush
(this space for rent)
 
Gavush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: White Bluff, TN
Posts: 437

Bikes: 2018 Synapse Dura-Ace, 1995 Specialized M2-pro, 1995 Gary Fisher Montare

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by stardognine
Yep, I somewhat recently lost to a seatpost, that's really stuck in a Rockhopper frame. I haven't totally given up yet, but that particular frame is safely stored out of sight, for now.
Have you tried Kroil?
Gavush is offline  
Old 02-17-16, 02:31 AM
  #21  
Chombi1 
Senior Member
 
Chombi1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 4,457
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1629 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 814 Times in 527 Posts
Could it be the steel alloy or the finish machining on Regina FWs make them easy to get impossibly stuck on to hubs???
Or might it be a curse on the brand from the workers at Maillard........
Chombi1 is offline  
Old 02-17-16, 06:22 AM
  #22  
Henry III
is just a real cool dude
 
Henry III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Thumb, MI
Posts: 3,173
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 27 Times in 11 Posts
Don't feel bad. I lost a MB1 to seized seatpost. It had a nice Nitto post but I sacrificed the post over the frame. Stuck the post in a vice and post sheared off right at the top of the seat tube lug. Then proceeded with the pie cutting and went to knock the pieces loose and sent a flat head screwdriver through the side of the seat tube. The pie cuts still didn't move after being cut into sections. How's that for a loss? That one still hurts.
Henry III is offline  
Old 02-23-17, 01:49 AM
  #23  
Signeld
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi there - would the easy-out tool make it possible to remove AND reuse an 80'ies regina corsa freewheel with two destroyed notches?
Thanx for sharing in this thread.
Signeld is offline  
Old 02-23-17, 04:21 AM
  #24  
4funbikes
Full Member
 
4funbikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Southeastern,VA
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 38 Times in 22 Posts
uff. A note for the destructive method is to not clamp it too tight in the vice. This can damage the threads on the hub. Sacrifices need to be made some time though.
4funbikes is offline  
Old 02-23-17, 04:38 AM
  #25  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,337
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2432 Post(s)
Liked 638 Times in 395 Posts
Some of you need to invest in a heat gun.
Lazyass is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.