willhub

Video with saddle 1cm power, sorry can only do one side as GF wants me to go to town.

Saddle wise I don't feel I'm sat too far back I think I've just got a fat arse.

However 1cm lower saddle would mean reach needs lengthen as seat will need to go back will it not? Then bars down 1cm so possibly shorter stem?

How does 1cm lower look? It doesn't feel much different on the trainer but my left leg seemed to not be pointing to the top tube it seems

Saddle 1cm lower (pc screen on is the pic 1cm higher and off is today 1cm lower)





Here is saddle 1.5cm lower (really started to feel not keen at this height)



Height 1.5cm lower front view ( knee position very much same as 1cm lower)

willhub

Moved it back but my reach is certainly too far now, I can tilt the stem I guess.

willhub

From the right side view it seems my right leg is too low?

Impressions after taking it on the road, feels like some straining on my left quad just before the knee.

Definitely seem a bit more stable, power wise can't say my power readings are lower.

https://youtu.be/X8yS0ydWeiE

I've raised my stem 5mm (initially lowered 1cm) to counter the extra reach and saddle down 2mm and back 5mm.

After riding, the left leg is still actually just as bad pointing in, going to try slanted wedge again.

2 pics below at 1cm lower, saddle slightly tilted back up and a botched attempt at a shim on the left leg, equates to between 3 to 5mm stack on the shims as there is a slight tilt.

The picture with the monitor on is before any adjustments were made and was at 1cm higher.

willhub

I've also moved saddle offset as far left as it'll go

willhub

I'm going to revert my bike position to the one I have measurements from when I had a fit in 2015.

​​​​​​I'm going to contact the company to see if they have records of the salad I bought and the width.

The shimming that I ghetto botched defenitly makes my leg feel a bit better in respect to power delivery especially on an incline. It does however make me feel like I partially slip on my right side also from time to time.

This slipping is still occuring and even re adjusting the saddle to the cm higher position doesn't change the effect.

The ghetto botched shim is 5mm one side and around 3.5mm the other as it's slightly tilted.

willhub

Since this sideways slip started and the last post I've been focusing more on ignoring this sideways slip, I've also moved my cleats back about 3mm on the pedals, from "5.5" to "5" on my Giro shoes that seemed to give a bit more comfort.

I removed those makeshift shims, tried some proper ones and they made no impact on my stavility, the custom carbon soles didn't have any impact either so removed them and went back to how the shoes were before.

I've also been looking at stretches especially the IT Band, using some of these exercises on here

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/fit...-need-to-know/

What I noticed is my left IT Band is incredibly tight compared to my right, the same exercise I can get my right knee about 5cm closer to my face than the left.

Could this be the culprit all along would it have such impact on stability ?

Oh the flip my my left hamstring is able to stretch slightly more than my right hamstring.

My hamstring and IT bands are both evidently very tight.

Iride01 

I don't think the sideways slip is anything you want to ignore. That ought to be addressed. How I don't know other than get with a good fitter if you can go the more expensive up front route.

I read Steve Hogg's site quite a bit when trying to address my own issues. He trains people in his fit methods, and it might be worth finding one near you to take a look at you. They show a person listed for the UK if that's your area.

If you are going to persist here, then tell us again what your inseam is and what your saddle height is from top of the saddle where you sit to the top of the pedal from it's furthest position away from the saddle.

phughes

Sure, which is why you need to set your seat height according to your personal flexibility, according to the way your body interfaces with the bike when in motion. Drop your saddle, or continue to fight it and have discomfort.

willhub

I measured my inseam, rammed a hard book up as much as I can and it came out at 81.8cm

Could my arm length and torso length be an issue effective my balance ?

Iride01 

I just go for snug. Hard as you can and you might have trouble keeping the top of the book parallel to the ground and you'll still be off measuring.

81.8 cm? Then is your saddle height from top of the saddle where you sit to the pedal when furthest away from the saddle somewhere in the range of 84.2 cm to 89.1 cm?

So you want to have an operation and change those things. I'm not sure you are going to find a doctor willing to do that. Lets just change stuff on the bike or the bike itself.

Saddle height is probably the first thing you need to get right before anything else.

willhub

It is at 90, assuming 73 + 17 for the crank from middle to middle.

It's at 89. 5 actually as I remember it went down to 72.5cm

Iride01 

So we are working off the "I think" it is this instead of "this is what it is".

Well, like a few other people that have responded to your thread. You might need to drop the saddle a cm or so. Or have you fixed the problem you referenced in the thread title?

If you don't care to try dropping the saddle and riding for a few 1 hour or so rides to see what it does, then let us know you don't want to drop the saddle and at least I'll quit suggesting it.

willhub

It's not that I don't want to drop it any further, it's the observations I've had when I've already tried it lower from knee pain and also inability to sustain power in hills to the feeling I'm pushing myself off the saddle.

I just can't fathom how the slight discrepancy with the saddle or anything could cause this phantom problem. Many people including myself in the past have messed with position making "large" changes and had no impact. Now it seems whatever I do this problem won't go away and I literally can't throw any money at it anymore as I can't afford to.

I've got a potential physio appointment on Monday as I was off work for a few days last week as I pulled a muscle or trapped a nerve under the shoulder blade it felt causing horrendous pain in the arm and back.

I'm not trying to be difficult it's just I'm very cautious or weary about making changes like saddle height especially where the leg position seems comfy from a perspective of getting to the pedals no knee pain no hip rocking, but this slip is just blizzard.

I went round to a friend's house and he had a look at me and was looking the lines of "oh my god you're twisted one leg looks like proper road cyclists other leg looks like average Joe on a I'll fitting MTB popping to the shops"

The left leg inwards and right leg outwards as already has been seen.

I haven't tried increasi my stance 2cm each side as I do have the adaptors for that but I don't really know if I should attempt those.

willhub

I know people are getting sick of this as it's dragged on, but I'm trying my best to work out what's going on.

I've drastically changed my bike position from:
Reach: 67 to 66 (same as bike fit 2015)
Saddle Height: 72.7 to 72.5 (bike for 2015 had me at 73)
Bars height - 97.5 - 97
The Saddle - BB has shifted approc from 7cm to 5cm (bike fit 2015 had me as 4cm but I can't get it that far forward)

Cleats moved backwards from position 5 to 3

I'm clearly not hugely senstive to changes, I'd say this position feels different in the sense I feel I may be getting more power down, there may be more weight on my hands but it's not having any worsening symptoms.

The front feels wobbly, it's an 11cm stem, maybe that's why?

I measured my inseam the best I could and it came out as 81.8 but looking at the documentation from a bike fit in 2015 they had me at 83cm inseam and I'd say their attempt would be more accurate than mine.

moved the saddle down to 72.5 and test as since moving cleats from 5 to 3 ( approc 4mm) the saddle feels higher.

AnthonyG

My two bobs worth.
You need to stop chasing power at this point and make a significant commitment to smoothing out your power delivery and balancing yourself.
This won't be easy or happen straight away. It will take commitment to not go flat out everywhere. I've definitely been there.
I'd move the saddle back on the rails for the time being and just work at being smooth and it will take work to get there.

willhub

I'm tempted to move it as far back but to try a 10cm stem as opposed to the 11 I have on. My arms do feels at a better angle currently (66cm reach)

Best I can do is 66.5cm reach though with 10cm stem and saddle as far back as it'll go.

Unless I just move it back 1cm.

I'm not chasing power as such I just observed a good effort testing it as when I take it for a quick test ride here I'm going up a hill.

I'm struggling to work out how this balance is going to be fixed as just riding isn't fixing it, I'm getting upper body paids from constantly having to stablise myself it's like I myself am swerving to stablise the bike.

AnthonyG

I'm not talking about hanging on to the handlebars for dear life. I'm talking about evening up and smoothing out your legs.
It will take work and time and your going to have to back off the power of your strong leg quite a bit while you try and build up your weaker leg.
It won't happen overnight.

willhub

I'm referring to the fact I feel I may be too stretched so felt 1cm less reach just felt more "correct" to me.

The doctor is referring me to be tested for HLA.B27 my mum and uncle has it and could be possible I may have it and also suspicions of Rhumatoid Spondyloarthritis so unsure what effect they may be having and possibly could make a normal correct bike position feel wrong and may be why I get neck in pain.

AnthonyG

You said above that you moved the saddle forwards from 7cm setback to 5cm setback, and now your thinking about shortening the stem. Your scrunching up your position. Moving the saddle forwards is usually counterproductive in my experience as it puts more weight on your hands/shoulders. I'd move your saddle back to 7cm again.

willhub

The GF has let me get another bike fit, 225 quid on the 29th July at Rapha in Manchester. Hopefully this will sort it if not it's time to quit cycling sadly.

I'm going around in circles trying to do this myself.

AnthonyG

Well good luck with the fitting yet honestly I'm not sure it will work. The problem with a pro fitting is that these guys are usually fitting people with the idea of getting more power for them and I don't believe that this is what you need right now. My view is that you need to back off from the idea of power and speed, bias your position towards comfort, and painstakingly work at balancing your legs. This will mean backing off with the leading leg, soft pedalling for a while and working on developing the weaker leg.
You won't get there trying to go full tilt everywhere.

willhub

I'm going to email maybe call as I've got till 29th July do if I discuss with them maybe they can decide if they can help me with what I need rather than sticking me in a pro fit to squeeze loads of power and cripple me.

Hopefully he isn't just in sales mode and will be honest.

willhub

Right so thinking no point bothering with anything else until Physio has looked at me and bike fit.

Went for a ride, unstable as hell, totally miffed.

I then just thought, it feels like my left foot is in a different place over the pedal than my right, however they're exactly the same.

My saddle is at 72.5mm now, the cleats moved as far back as they'll go, surprisingly that didn't feel weird.

Hoiwever I thought, perhaps if there is some something giving the effect of shorter left leg, moving the cleats forward will effectively lower the saddle for the left side.

So I've moved the left side cleat to where I oringnally had it, left the right shoe as is, the left cleat is 6mm further forward than my right.

What I noticed when I did a 37 mile bike ride today is better stability slowing down, better acceleration, no swerving of the bike and smoother pedaling and ability to keep a more consistent power reading rather than it jumping up and down.

It's still far from perfect but it seems better than at any point this year.

I'm not sure if I should move the cleat even further to see if it adds any stability or to add a shim, or just persevere until July 29th as it is.

AnthonyG

I've said it before and I will say it again.
Disconnect the power meter. Let it be the last thing on your mind. You need to soft pedal for a while at a highish cadence and be concerned about nothing other than riding smoothly.
You will not fix your issues by going at it like a bull at a gate.

Bigbus

Here's an interesting thought that helped me with feeling like I was always leaning the bike to the right, I turned my seat ever so slightly towards the right. I do mean like maybe a mm or 2 at the front point without changing anything else and suddenly, my sit bones were both on the saddle and not over compensating to one side. Give it a whirl, what have you got to lose at this point? Good luck