njkayaker

What are you expecting cameras would do for you?

I don't think they do anything at-all for preventing issues (this is where the "wishful" thinking comes in). A flashing light will do much more and for a whole lot less money and fuss.

There's a fair amount of support (here and on YouTube) that they are useful for documenting issues. There's some support that they can be useful as evidence for involving law enforcement. This doesn't always work (nothing is perfect) but it's better than not having a recording. It's close to pointless to "tattle" on offenders without video evidence.

Give that, for most people, incidents are rare, it would be hard to decide for individuals whether they would be "worthwhile". It's a bit like insurance: the point is to never need it but, if you need it, it's nice to have.

Most people manage without having cameras. Decent ones are not cheap and require some fussing with (recharging, certainly). Outside of this, there isn't any downside to them. They are clearly worthwhile for some.

Daniel4

Let us know how it goes.

Leisesturm

[QUOTE=raqball;22667588]You do realize you can have both right? A camera and insurance.. What a strange concept that would be, I know...
Oh I know, but that hasn't been mentioned by anyone else either. So don't single me out. I'm just playing it where it lies ...

Your comment about courts not assisting is absolutely false.. You can garnish pay, tax returns and put a lien on their property via a court order.
No, not me. Maybe they will help you. I don't know, but they don't help everyone and anyone. If you were right I'd be getting checks from my old landlord right now, and for a long time to come ...

Also it appears as though you are a-ok with the driver getting away as long as your bills are covered. If the accident were lethal do you not think your significant other, children, family etc would want the person caught and held to account? Do you not think the community might be safer getting a driver off the road and in jail who would kill someone and flee the scene?
This should be informative: find us a relevant case where the next of kin of a deceased, from a hit and run won their wrongful death lawsuit using only video camera evidence. We have numerous such victories where the cyclists themselves were not killed, but their bikes and/or their relatively minor injuries were paid for (settled?). I'm thinking when the stakes are an order of magnitude higher ... orders of magnitude higher. I'm thinking you will see MUCH less willingness on the part of the legal system to rely on something as unproven as a helmet camera. But I don't know.

raqball 

Courts can and do issue garnishment and lean orders all the time... If you are expecting the judge to send his cousin to break the legs of the person not paying then sure, they'll do nothing..


Video evidence is crystal clear and can show exactly what happened. It can capture the events as they unfolded, license plates and other pertinent information. Eye-witnesses are often the exact opposite of that and are very unreliable. Video evidence could easily win a case where if there was no video it might be a coin flip as to who the judge or jury believes..

In the event of a hit and run, video evidence of the car description and plate might be the only way the driver is ever caught.

Leisesturm

All those "can's", "might's", "often's" ... just point me to some final rulings. Thanks.

rumrunn6

recently thought we had an attempted break-in at our home. 1st thing the cops asked me was, do you have any security video

raqball 

You want me to search the internet for civil cases (newsflash - most courts don't allow public access to cases) that resulted in a cyclist winning a case because they had a camera? LMAO!

Your request is a common tactic when an argument is so weak it has nothing to stand on. So I say no thanks but as an alternative I offer you what most call ---> common sense.

Business all over the world use cameras, police use cameras on body and in car, Millions and millions of people use dash cameras and even more use doorbell cameras and /or have then on the exterior of their home.

Why? Well because they record the true and actual facts that are invaluable for recording evidence that can be used later in the event that something happens. Will something happen? Maybe not but if it does they have what they need..

Common sense should answer you request though. If a cyclist with no camera is hit and the driver leaves the scene the chances of that driver getting caught are diminished. Unless a business or a car nearby has a camera and records details and evidence of it. If the cyclist has a camera then you don't need to hope that someone else captured that info. It's right there on your very own camera...

raqball 

I am retired Law Enforcement and video is invaluable. Not only for investigative purposes but in also in court. These anti-camera people have their mind made up and they'll jump through whatever mental gymnastics they need to in order to make them feel like their uneducated thoughts are justified.

Home security, automobile dash cams, business security camera, cameras on a bike etc. All can serve a very important function of capturing video evidence of what happened and capturing of the offender(s).. Video has helped solve countless crimes and capture numerous criminals.

JW Fas

One detail that is often overlooked in the US (mainly because people don't know) is the following: In the absence of physical contact between one automobile and another vehicle or person, police won't investigate unless the accuser can visually identify the driver. That doesn't necessitate the use of a camera, but it increases your chances of success dramatically.

In the example below the BMW driver (what a surprise, right?) was ticketed because of the video evidence. Had I not possessed cameras, what were the odds I would've been able to see the driver's face and/or license plate given how fast he overtook me? If by some miracle my eyes were able to see both AND the cop was willing to investigate based on my sole eyewitness testimony, the registered owner would've simply denied wrongdoing. That would have been the end of that. Instead, the cop was able to bring up the YouTube video on his phone and show it directly to the driver. At which point the guy couldn't deny it, so he tried to play ignorant by saying he was unaware of the KS 3-foot passing law.

raqball 

Yes that is correct.. Police generally can't issue citations for basic traffic related offenses unless they witness the traffic offense themselves and your 3 foot law is a good example to show. With video documentation, police can take action against the offending driver.

Video cameras have proven time and time again to be great tools for investigative purposes and for documenting evidence of crime(s) but if you happen to put one on a bike for the same purpose you are suddenly 'wishful thinking' and 'starry-eyed'.

addendum8716

say NO to dangerous driving

rumrunn6

yeah ppl just aren't willing to decelerate or use the brakes

rumrunn6

my new security camera caught me coming back from a bike ride ...

raqball 

This was back in 2015 when I was an alpha and beta tester for Cycliq when they were developing their Fly 12 front camera. I had a Fly 6 on the back and the Fly 12 on the front. I am in a clearly marked bike lane with bike lane markings on the road and bike lane signs on the side of the road.


I called the police and the driver was cited for unsafe driving.

Leisesturm

Jesus wept. A beta tester for Cycliq? I knew I was smelling bias from somewhere. Damn I'm good.

raqball 

Your attempt to discredit others who have a different opinion is disgraceful and a bit embarrassing for yourself..

FWIW, I was the admin of a now defunct cycling computer website and one of their reps frequented the site as we had an electronics and gadget area. At the time I had a fly 6 and they asked if I was interested in testing the Fly 12...

So please spare me your childish and kindergarten level accusations just because your argument stands on shaky ground..

urbanknight

I bought a dashcam after I went to turn right on a green light and a teen on a bike came flying off the curb about 15' past the crosswalk from behind a covered bus stop. I was able to stop in time, but realized I would have been placed at fault had I hit him without proof that he dashed out from a hidden place. Haven't needed evidence yet, but I'm ready for it if I ever do... plus I get some YouTube worthy clips almost weekly.

rumrunn6

yeah, when I ride the roads, I always turn the cam on as I approach any intersection. I don't record entire rides, just the highlights & all intersections

rumrunn6

wow, that car didn't even need to pass you, cuz they were turning off anyway! classic knucklehead!

raqball 

Probably in a hurry to save those precious 1 or 2 seconds by driving like a maniac..

I was also buzzed by a city bus that I had footage of. The side of the bus actually made contact with me as it passed. The contact was a light brushing and didn't cause an accident. Again, I was in a designated bike lane with the Fly 6 rear flashing light and camera.

I reported it to the police and sent a copy of the video to the transit authority. I had several email interactions with them but I never found out if anything came of it..

I rode with my Varia Radar yesterday and 24 miles of that ride was in the city. I had 330 something cars pass me according to it. That's a lot of opportunity of encounter a bad driver, a distracted driver, or a general all around knucklehead.. I ride daily so multiply that x 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year and the odds are pretty darn good you are going to have close encounters and / or incidents.

Also, as urbanknight pointed out, you get some cool and funny videos at times as well. I posted a video the other day of a goofy little dog chasing me. I labeled it jokingly as a vicious dog attack...

I don't get the hate. Billions of cameras are used all over the world to document incidents that may or may not ever happen. If something does happen the video will show the true and actual facts of the incident. But if you happen to slap one on a bike, you are wishful thinking and starry-eyed.

Sadly my GoPro suffered a tragic death a few days ago. I let my son borrow it to put on his motorcycle as he wanted some side shots. The suction cup type mount he was using failed and a bouncing down the road it went....

I'm now on the hunt for a new camera.. I might get the Hero 11 Mini in a few weeks when it drops or maybe something else. I eyeballed the Garmin RCT715 (could replace my RTL 515) but it does not have image stabilization and it's 1080p @ 30 FPS only. Yesterdays ride was without a camera and I felt naked without it. I assume all my rides until I get a replacement will feel the same.. Since my accident I just don't feel comfortable rolling without a camera.

rumrunn6

yeah, don't get something w/o image stabilization. I almost can't even watch my old videos unless it was hand-held stuff
btw - I got my Gopro8 pre-owned & refurbed off Amazon. seems to work perfectly
but always nice to upgrade! ;-) ;-)

raqball 

I had an old Session 4 and the original Fly 6 that didn't have image stabilization and it was okay for the most part as long as the roads were smooth. I don't think for me it's a deal breaker as most of my rides are in the city, or even outside the city, on mainly good smooth paved roads. My issue is that for the price, it should really have it and Garmin's old Virb camera had image stabilization so I am not sure why they didn't include it in the 715.. I assume they could add software stabilization if they wanted via firmware upgrade but not sure.

The video I posted above with the maniac who passed me was using the original Fly 6 without image stabilization and it was only 720p as well..

Another thing drawing me to the 715 is the battery life. Garmin claims 6 hours recording with daytime flash and radar active. Almost all of my rides are under 6 hours so I would not need a USB battery pack.. On my longer rides, when outside of the city and much less traffic, I could run the camera in radar active mode which I assume would eek out more battery life.

I went ahead and ordered it so I assume it will be here next week. Guess I'll be a Guinea Pig and test it out.. I'll have 30-days to return it if it sucks..

rumrunn6

cool, post up a separate thread with the brand & model in the title so peeps can find it

raqball 

I posted a thread asking if anyone had it in the Electronics area. I'll post my thoughts on it in that thread along with sample footage in that thread after it arrives.

https://www.bikeforums.net/electroni...yone-have.html

work4bike

A picture is worth a thousand words. This is crazy how close this bus got to this cyclist from the UK.