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3d printed Canyon

Old 03-10-23, 08:43 AM
  #1  
rosefarts
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3d printed Canyon

https://bikerumor.com/canyon-3d-prin...ike-prototype/


Seems like a cool idea. But isn’t aluminum pretty much infinitely recyclable already? Seems like using a 3d printer is adding complexity. A standard tubed frame is strong enough for nearly anything and already is recycled/recyclable.

There could be a certain advantage that most of this could be done at a single printing facility rather than sourcing materials and getting them to the factory. Maybe.

Also makes me think it’s way weaker than standard hydroformed tubes, or it wouldn’t be so trussed out.


(comment pool.
1 point. My 26” with rim brakes is still going, that’s environmental

2 points. Its so ugly I wouldn’t let my dead grandma ride it

0 points, cars are the real problem )
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Old 03-10-23, 08:49 AM
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3D printing will allow them to do some things that can't be done or at least not easily done by typical manufacturing methods to take better advantage of the material properties.
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Old 03-10-23, 09:39 AM
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Kirk Precision would like a word, lol

This is a technology demonstrator; a "because we can" project.

On one hand, you've got AI-optimized design, and 3DP can make far more intricate shapes / details than CNC or hand fabrication.
They're also talking about the carbon footprint/ energy savings from eliminating upstream processes like foundry work and tubing mills.
They briefly mention that it takes a long time to produce a single bike this way, though.

It's like a concept car; it may not be the future, but it's a future.
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Old 03-10-23, 09:42 AM
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I think the skeleton/lattice look is pretty cool. Its certainly different, and its done in a way that I dont dislike(as opposed to so many other 'revolutionary' designs).
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Old 03-10-23, 03:16 PM
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Big question will be if the 3D printer and the time it takes to print one frame will ever be cost effective to allow production of a bike that can be sold for a price most are willing to pay. Or if it can produce a frame so superior to current top tier carbon that it becomes the new thing.
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Old 03-10-23, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
3D printing will allow them to do some things that can't be done or at least not easily done by typical manufacturing methods to take better advantage of the material properties.

In a nutshell, this is the textbook definition of why to use 3d printing.

It seems a little dubious to tout it as more environmentally friendly for very slight upstream benefit.
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Old 03-10-23, 03:59 PM
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So is the "Green" part of the equation what you wish to focus on?

I just take that as the promoters just grasping at things to grab someone's attention. So of course if in any way they can relate it to being environmentally friendly then there'll be some remark toward that. Just like other references to other things might grab someone's attention in the article.

I still remember when HGTV had all the shows touting the use of green materials. Almost brand new granite and quartz counter tops being sent to the dumpster on those shows and replaced with things consider more environmentally friendly. How green was that putting good stuff in a land fill just to brag about a "green" home? I guess others had the same issue with the concept since HGTV did away with all those shows.

So similarly would we all trash our existing bikes to have them made by an environmentally friendly manner? Or even worse, what would the greening cost be to re-tool a factory to put out 3D printed stuff and throw the existing tooling into the land fill?

But, recycled aluminum does have a lot going for it on the green end of things whether it's 3d or not. Mining bauxite and making into new aluminum not so much.
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Old 03-10-23, 04:09 PM
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Interesting but what about durability and repairability?? I prefer a Tig welded aluminium frame with smoothed welds that can be repaired than some3D printed stuff.
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Old 03-10-23, 05:54 PM
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Nice idea, problem with this thinking is planning on non-use vs ensuring a bike can be used for 30, 40,50, 60 years.and planning so that length of live is supportable and upgradeable

so minimize use of proprietary fittings, keep things simple

I have 42, 39, and 38 year old bikes going strong. two are mostly original equipment and one has had modern 11 speed on it
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Old 03-10-23, 06:24 PM
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It will be interesting to see the first 3d printed bicycle that gets ignored by all but the most obsequious of media outlets. I'm already there, but nobody cares what I think.
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Old 03-10-23, 06:55 PM
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it'll be tougher to point a finger at QA/QC when a bot is doing all the work. I'd trust a machines work ethic as long as the design doesn't contain weak points.
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Old 03-10-23, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Troul
it'll be tougher to point a finger at QA/QC when a bot is doing all the work. I'd trust a machines work ethic as long as the design doesn't contain weak points.
ah but humans program the machines, like tesla programming a rolling stop on stop signs.
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Old 03-10-23, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad
ah but humans program the machines, like tesla programming a rolling stop on stop signs.
I didn't say it'd eliminate it, so error is still a thing.
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Old 03-10-23, 09:33 PM
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This brings us back to the Needlessly Contentious Topics thread where someone brings up some new tech and then you hear the inevitable, “Well my (fill in the blank frame or component) is just fine and we don’t need no stinkin’ new fangled (fill in the bank).” And so it goes forever and forever and forever. Meh.
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Old 03-11-23, 03:10 PM
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1. additive manufacturing is an amazing way to make stronger, lighter, and more efficient parts.
2. You can keep that fork tho
3. RANT: Sustainable cycling? REALLY?! Is cycling truly THAT much of a burden on the environment? Or is this pandering
3a (it's just pandering)

It's a great concept and a good design but 'sustainable cycling' cringeworthy.
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Old 03-11-23, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01
3D printing will allow them to do some things that can't be done or at least not easily done by typical manufacturing methods to take better advantage of the material properties.
"will allow them" or "might allow them"? I suspect you're right, and it's a very cool concept (IMO). But it would be interesting to see descriptions of design concepts and functional effects that couldn't be accomplished with current methods. I guess related to this, is: an explanation of why this is more sustainable than tubes?
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Old 03-11-23, 04:44 PM
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I still want to get some lugs 3d printed. People are already doing that. I think things like that are better uses of a 3d printer, but it doesn't get you any press. Maybe 20 likes on instagram.
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Old 03-11-23, 05:04 PM
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From link in 1st post
"Due to the size limitation of the 3D-printer, the ~2kg frame was created in three pieces sleeved & bonded together, plus a separate rigid fork." - This does not sound ideal?

"Canyon engineers took advantage of the flexibility of creating an almost infinitely-complex latticework skeleton thanks to the laser sintering technology of the 3D-printed alloy to handle structural loads (see the turquoise rendering,
above) and topped it off with a thin shell to protect the frameset and make it easier to keep clean." - a thin shell of what? if not aluminum how does it recycle? if aluminium how does it protect the aluminium frame?
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Old 03-11-23, 06:02 PM
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Today we roll our eyes.

Five years from now when the UCI dictates "all of the material that goes into the bike is to be fully recyclable in a usable way" and CF bikes disappear, this is what we'll see at the LBS.

Fun fact: VAAST magnesium frames are decalled with a recycling symbol:


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Old 03-11-23, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tcs
Fun fact: VAAST magnesium frames are decalled with a recycling symbol:

My strawberry container claims to be recyclable, yet it won't be recycled when it makes its way to the sorting facility.

Can I just toss a VAAST frame in the recycling bin and wheel it to the curb?
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Old 03-16-23, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SoCaled
From link in 1st post
"Due to the size limitation of the 3D-printer, the ~2kg frame was created in three pieces sleeved & bonded together, plus a separate rigid fork." - This does not sound ideal?

"Canyon engineers took advantage of the flexibility of creating an almost infinitely-complex latticework skeleton thanks to the laser sintering technology of the 3D-printed alloy to handle structural loads (see the turquoise rendering,
above) and topped it off with a thin shell to protect the frameset and make it easier to keep clean." - a thin shell of what? if not aluminum how does it recycle? if aluminium how does it protect the aluminium frame?
They just meant a top skin of aluminium within the 3D print - not a separate skin. Most 3D printed components are modelled in that way i.e. using a lattice/honeycomb infill with outer skins as required.

3D metallic printing is way too slow to be commercially viable for mass-production and there's no way of dramatically speeding up the process. It's true application is in prototyping and low volume, small, intricate components. Bike frames are not really a good match for this tech, other than for prototyping like in this case.
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