Compact Handlebar Question
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Compact Handlebar Question
Hey all,
First post here so hopefully this is the right section. I purchased a gravel bike online, and the reach is a bit long (or the stack short). I like drop bars but like to ride pretty upright. I'm 5"9 and it's a 54cm frame for reference. It came with a 90mm/+-7 degree stem stem per the maker's recommendation. I lowered that to an 80mm stem with a 17 degree rise. It's still not quite right. I have a lot of spacers under it, too.
1. Does this mean the frame/stack is too small? The size up had a +21mm taller stack, but it did come at a +2mm reach.
2. Would a 70mm compact handlebar help me get on the hoods? It has an 80mm compact bar on it right now. Would I gain a full 10mm at the hoods?
This was my first "good bike", and I do regret buying online, but at the time there were no bikes in shops due to the Covid bike panic.
Thanks!
J
First post here so hopefully this is the right section. I purchased a gravel bike online, and the reach is a bit long (or the stack short). I like drop bars but like to ride pretty upright. I'm 5"9 and it's a 54cm frame for reference. It came with a 90mm/+-7 degree stem stem per the maker's recommendation. I lowered that to an 80mm stem with a 17 degree rise. It's still not quite right. I have a lot of spacers under it, too.
1. Does this mean the frame/stack is too small? The size up had a +21mm taller stack, but it did come at a +2mm reach.
2. Would a 70mm compact handlebar help me get on the hoods? It has an 80mm compact bar on it right now. Would I gain a full 10mm at the hoods?
This was my first "good bike", and I do regret buying online, but at the time there were no bikes in shops due to the Covid bike panic.
Thanks!
J
Last edited by TheFort; 02-02-22 at 01:47 PM.
#2
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,455
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3635 Post(s)
Liked 5,311 Times
in
2,699 Posts
Check out bars with rise, like the Surly Truck Stop. https://surlybikes.com/parts/truck_stop_bar
#3
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times
in
1,422 Posts
If you want to shorten the reach, a shorter stem is a whole lot cheaper way to do it.
#4
I like speed
I'd honestly get fitted to get the best answer. What bike did you buy? I ask is to check the geometry on it. A 54 cm frame isn't the same across all manufacturers.
Generally what you're describing is the reach and stack are too long and short for your preference. For reference, I'm 5'10" and ride 54 cm frames but specifically looking for effective top tubes of 54 - 55 cm.
Generally what you're describing is the reach and stack are too long and short for your preference. For reference, I'm 5'10" and ride 54 cm frames but specifically looking for effective top tubes of 54 - 55 cm.
#5
Newbie
Thread Starter
I'd honestly get fitted to get the best answer. What bike did you buy? I ask is to check the geometry on it. A 54 cm frame isn't the same across all manufacturers.
Generally what you're describing is the reach and stack are too long and short for your preference. For reference, I'm 5'10" and ride 54 cm frames but specifically looking for effective top tubes of 54 - 55 cm.
Generally what you're describing is the reach and stack are too long and short for your preference. For reference, I'm 5'10" and ride 54 cm frames but specifically looking for effective top tubes of 54 - 55 cm.
I'd like to get the bars closer. Does anyone know if you go from an 80mm compact to a 70mm compact handlebar, do you get the full 10mm reduction? I have read mixed things.
#6
I like speed
Ah ok...
In my personal experience with changing out compact bars (80mm to 70mm reach) only affects the distance from the flats of the bar to the hoods. In other words, it does reduce reach to the hoods assuming you set it up properly but the handlebar is still the same distance from the saddle. I find that changing bar reach is more of a refinement in fit rather than what you're attempting to address.
In my personal experience with changing out compact bars (80mm to 70mm reach) only affects the distance from the flats of the bar to the hoods. In other words, it does reduce reach to the hoods assuming you set it up properly but the handlebar is still the same distance from the saddle. I find that changing bar reach is more of a refinement in fit rather than what you're attempting to address.
#7
Newbie
Thread Starter
Ah ok...
In my personal experience with changing out compact bars (80mm to 70mm reach) only affects the distance from the flats of the bar to the hoods. In other words, it does reduce reach to the hoods assuming you set it up properly but the handlebar is still the same distance from the saddle. I find that changing bar reach is more of a refinement in fit rather than what you're attempting to address.
In my personal experience with changing out compact bars (80mm to 70mm reach) only affects the distance from the flats of the bar to the hoods. In other words, it does reduce reach to the hoods assuming you set it up properly but the handlebar is still the same distance from the saddle. I find that changing bar reach is more of a refinement in fit rather than what you're attempting to address.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times
in
734 Posts
I'd honestly get fitted to get the best answer. What bike did you buy? I ask is to check the geometry on it. A 54 cm frame isn't the same across all manufacturers.
Generally what you're describing is the reach and stack are too long and short for your preference. For reference, I'm 5'10" and ride 54 cm frames but specifically looking for effective top tubes of 54 - 55 cm.
Generally what you're describing is the reach and stack are too long and short for your preference. For reference, I'm 5'10" and ride 54 cm frames but specifically looking for effective top tubes of 54 - 55 cm.
#9
Full Member
Repeating what someone else said I would invest in a full bike fit. They will adjust everything right there instead of you trying a bunch of things one at a time. They would also be able to tell you outright if the frame isn't going to work instead of doing a lot of trial and error before coming to that conclusion.
#10
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times
in
1,422 Posts
Different bars have different shapes which can change where exactly to hoods end up, So going with a bar with 10mm less reach could mean the reach to the hoods is 10mm less…or a smidge more or a smidge less.
The simplest, cheapest, and fastest way to shorten the reach is to just get a shorter stem. It achieves the same thing, but more predictably.
The simplest, cheapest, and fastest way to shorten the reach is to just get a shorter stem. It achieves the same thing, but more predictably.
#11
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,455
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3635 Post(s)
Liked 5,311 Times
in
2,699 Posts
Check the Ritchey Ergomax. 73mm reach, 10 degree rise and 4.6 degree back sweep. Or a shorter stem, though it seems there isn't much difference in the cost. https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/co...omax-handlebar
#12
Callipygian Connoisseur
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,373
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked 350 Times
in
190 Posts
Before you dump too much money on stems, you might wanna check out Jim G’s Stem Comparison tool. If helps if you have a good sense of where you’re at vs where you want to be. I’ll echo what others have already said about a good bike fitting session. Millimeters matter when it comes to bike fit, and with so many variables it’s pretty tough to get meaningful help from a bunch of forum knuckleheads.
Last edited by Kedosto; 02-02-22 at 09:55 PM.
#13
Senior Member
Sounds like a lack of fitness to me, unless you have short arms to go with your short torso. I'm 168cm tall with an 83cm cycling inseam and 72-73cm saddle height. My wingspan is about 5cm greater than my height. My preferred stack is 525mm, no spacers and a -17 stem to produce a 10cm saddle to bar drop. If you're trying to produce a small 2-4cm saddle to bar drop, that's your real problem. Right now, I'm riding the smallest frame I've ever owned with a stack of 509mm. I have 30mm headset top cover instead of the standard 15mm headset top cover and a 15mm spacer. I still use a -17 x 110mm stem, with 80mm reach bars. If you have 100mm reach bars, I'd change those out.
Check your saddle to bar drop first, then report back.
Check your saddle to bar drop first, then report back.
#14
Newbie
Thread Starter
Sounds like a lack of fitness to me, unless you have short arms to go with your short torso. I'm 168cm tall with an 83cm cycling inseam and 72-73cm saddle height. My wingspan is about 5cm greater than my height. My preferred stack is 525mm, no spacers and a -17 stem to produce a 10cm saddle to bar drop. If you're trying to produce a small 2-4cm saddle to bar drop, that's your real problem. Right now, I'm riding the smallest frame I've ever owned with a stack of 509mm. I have 30mm headset top cover instead of the standard 15mm headset top cover and a 15mm spacer. I still use a -17 x 110mm stem, with 80mm reach bars. If you have 100mm reach bars, I'd change those out.
I'm 45 years old and just want to ride some off road trails for fun and adventure. I do want a more upright position because of my age and the intended use of the bike. I do have back pain, so I don't disagree on the lack of flexibility. I can ride centuries on my road bike, so I don't think I lack fitness, just flexibility.
#15
Newbie
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the help so far. The bike was intended for a 90mm stem, so I don't really want to go lower than 80mm. This is the reason I was looking at compact bars to reduce the reach to the hoods 10mm. I might try this and see how it goes. I have no interest in an aero position and just want to ride gravel in a more upright position.
If none of this works, maybe a custom bike is in the offing?
If none of this works, maybe a custom bike is in the offing?
#16
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times
in
1,422 Posts
That's how you set up your gravel bike??
I'm 45 years old and just want to ride some off road trails for fun and adventure. I do want a more upright position because of my age and the intended use of the bike. I do have back pain, so I don't disagree on the lack of flexibility. I can ride centuries on my road bike, so I don't think I lack fitness, just flexibility.
I'm 45 years old and just want to ride some off road trails for fun and adventure. I do want a more upright position because of my age and the intended use of the bike. I do have back pain, so I don't disagree on the lack of flexibility. I can ride centuries on my road bike, so I don't think I lack fitness, just flexibility.
There is nothing wrong with running your hoods level with your saddle if that is what works for you.
Likes For Kapusta:
#17
Senior Member
54cm sounds about right for 5'9". I am 5'8" and ride 52 cm but I also have short legs.
Do you have a short torso?
You can look into doing some of your own bike fitting for free online:
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/S...hoCngAQAvD_BwE
https://www.myvelofit.com/pricing
It is not a substitute for a professional bike fit but could be helpful and educational.
Do you have a short torso?
You can look into doing some of your own bike fitting for free online:
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/S...hoCngAQAvD_BwE
https://www.myvelofit.com/pricing
It is not a substitute for a professional bike fit but could be helpful and educational.
#18
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,534
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10897 Post(s)
Liked 7,384 Times
in
4,144 Posts
Thanks for all the help so far. The bike was intended for a 90mm stem, so I don't really want to go lower than 80mm. This is the reason I was looking at compact bars to reduce the reach to the hoods 10mm. I might try this and see how it goes. I have no interest in an aero position and just want to ride gravel in a more upright position.
If none of this works, maybe a custom bike is in the offing?
If none of this works, maybe a custom bike is in the offing?
- using a 70mm stem would be fine. a 60mm stem would be fine. saying you shouldnt have a stem shorter than 10mm different from the stock stem length is an arbitrary decision by you.
- buying a drop bar with some rise could help. 2 have been listed already. the surly is 78mm of reach, but 30mm of rise which will help part of what you dislike about your current fit. the ritchey is 73mm of reach which helps and 10mm of rise which also helps.
hopefully you figure out the fit because the Secan is a really nice bike. fantastic design and finish. Ive had mine for 2.5 years and love it.
#19
Advanced Slacker
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,187
Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2749 Post(s)
Liked 2,516 Times
in
1,422 Posts
Thanks for all the help so far. The bike was intended for a 90mm stem, so I don't really want to go lower than 80mm. This is the reason I was looking at compact bars to reduce the reach to the hoods 10mm. I might try this and see how it goes. I have no interest in an aero position and just want to ride gravel in a more upright position.
If none of this works, maybe a custom bike is in the offing?
If none of this works, maybe a custom bike is in the offing?
If you are finding the 90mm stem length to be sacred, why would the bar reach not be equally sacred?
FWIW, I am also someone who needs an unusually high stack to reach ratio. What I have found (through the guidance of an excellent bike fitter) is that in my case it is best to go with the frame that gives the proper reach, as stack is a trivial matter to make up for with spacers or a riser stem. Making large adjustments to reach (be it through shorter stems OR shorter reach bars) can affect handling.
That said, i would not sweat reducing the reach to the hoods (be it through stem length or bar reach) 20-30 mm from the stock configuration. Stems are cheap, and you will know if you are OK with the handeling.
Thus, I tend to go DOWN is size, rather than up.
One other thing to keep in mind when looking at stack and reach numbers: if frame A has the same reach as frame B, but also has a much taller stack than B, then after you set the bars at the same level on each frame, frame A will have a longer effective reach than B. The reason being that as you space the stem up the steer tube on B to match the bar height of A, you are also moving it back due to the angle of the head tube and steer tube.
The reason I am pointing this out is because it means that the difference in effective reach between frame sizes is actually larger than it appears when you look at a Geo chart and just look at the reach numbers alone.
Good luck.
Last edited by Kapusta; 02-03-22 at 11:00 AM.
#20
Senior Member
That's how you set up your gravel bike??
I'm 45 years old and just want to ride some off road trails for fun and adventure. I do want a more upright position because of my age and the intended use of the bike. I do have back pain, so I don't disagree on the lack of flexibility. I can ride centuries on my road bike, so I don't think I lack fitness, just flexibility.
I'm 45 years old and just want to ride some off road trails for fun and adventure. I do want a more upright position because of my age and the intended use of the bike. I do have back pain, so I don't disagree on the lack of flexibility. I can ride centuries on my road bike, so I don't think I lack fitness, just flexibility.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3905 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times
in
2,905 Posts
I'm 3 inches shorter and my previous bikes had the same 383mm reach and 525mm stack. They were both slammed with only the 15mm headset top cover and -17 x 100mm stems, with 80mm reach bars. I'm 68 years old but still ride 50+ mile rides into the mountains with plenty of climbing. You're a youngster compared to me. A 70mm high rise stem and lots of spacers shouldn't be needed, with reasonable fitness.
#22
Over the hill
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 24,340
Bikes: Giant Defy, Giant Revolt
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 987 Post(s)
Liked 1,186 Times
in
681 Posts
2. Yes, if ONLY the hoods feel too far out and not the tops, a shorter reach on the bar can help. Just be sure it's reach and not height that needs changing.
__________________
It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
Likes For urbanknight:
#23
Newbie
Thread Starter
Thank you. Everyone thinks that other riders care about aero or want to be in that position. I have zero interest in aero because I'm not a racer. I'm a weekend rider who likes to explore!
Likes For TheFort:
#25
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,534
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10897 Post(s)
Liked 7,384 Times
in
4,144 Posts
I'm 3 inches shorter and my previous bikes had the same 383mm reach and 525mm stack. They were both slammed with only the 15mm headset top cover and -17 x 100mm stems, with 80mm reach bars. I'm 68 years old but still ride 50+ mile rides into the mountains with plenty of climbing. You're a youngster compared to me. A 70mm high rise stem and lots of spacers shouldn't be needed, with reasonable fitness.
What do my stats have to do with this discussion?...nothing, same as yours.
Likes For mstateglfr: