Whose fault?
10-17-14, 08:51 PM
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Whose fault?
So, I picked up a Schwinn and it is made of good tubing.
The headset was a little pitted so I got another one and took it to a shop to have them remove the old one and press in the new one.
I didn't know about JIS and ISO headsets and got an ISO headset for a JIS frameset. The crown race is 26.4 instead of 27mm id. The cups are on the other hand a little larger where they press into the head tube, maybe 2/10ths of a millimeter.
So the shop put in the ISO cups but had to put my old JIS crown race back on.
I then went home and noticed the bearing cages were a different size so I couldn't use the old crown race with the new cups, so I went back to the shop to have them put in a JIS headset, but the cups no longer fit in the headtube because it had been permanently enlarged.
So, opinions please. Should they have known about the headsets or is it all on me because I bought the parts?
The headset was a little pitted so I got another one and took it to a shop to have them remove the old one and press in the new one.
I didn't know about JIS and ISO headsets and got an ISO headset for a JIS frameset. The crown race is 26.4 instead of 27mm id. The cups are on the other hand a little larger where they press into the head tube, maybe 2/10ths of a millimeter.
So the shop put in the ISO cups but had to put my old JIS crown race back on.
I then went home and noticed the bearing cages were a different size so I couldn't use the old crown race with the new cups, so I went back to the shop to have them put in a JIS headset, but the cups no longer fit in the headtube because it had been permanently enlarged.
So, opinions please. Should they have known about the headsets or is it all on me because I bought the parts?
Last edited by garage sale GT; 10-21-14 at 04:25 PM.
10-17-14, 10:21 PM
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This is a perfect example of why many pros refuse to install stuff bought elsewhere. If they check first and tell the customer he bought the wrong stuff, they get a fight. OTOH, if they take everything at face value the customer makes it their fault if/when things go wrong. Or they can waste time double checking everythin g because they don't know the provenance.
To answe the "who's fault" both of you, with you having a slight edge. I don't know the conversation involved, but if you brought stuff and say please install, the shop had some basis to assume you brought the right stuff. OTOH- they should have known better, and not trusted that.
However, something else is going on, or maybe you have the facts muddled in the post.
JIS has a larger crown race 27.0 vs. 26.4, but a smaller head tube dia. 30.0 vs 30.2. so a JIS headset would simply drop into an ISO frame or fork. It's also why JIS frames can easily be converted to ISO (both the frame and fork) but not the reverse.
Also, I've NEVER seen a same model headset made in JIS and ISO versions where any of the bearing dimensions were different. The headsets are 100% identical except the OD and IDs where they fit the frame and fork.
I suspect that there's no serious fault, just that you have some mixed up parts.
Afterthought. if they tried the crown race installation first, and found it was wrong, they should have known there was a decent chance the head cups would be also, and stopped there. If they installed the frame cups first it's grayer. They should have felt that the cups were unreasonably tight and stopped. But some tubes, especially with Tig frames expand fairly easily and it can sometimes be easy to press in an oversized cup.
To answe the "who's fault" both of you, with you having a slight edge. I don't know the conversation involved, but if you brought stuff and say please install, the shop had some basis to assume you brought the right stuff. OTOH- they should have known better, and not trusted that.
However, something else is going on, or maybe you have the facts muddled in the post.
JIS has a larger crown race 27.0 vs. 26.4, but a smaller head tube dia. 30.0 vs 30.2. so a JIS headset would simply drop into an ISO frame or fork. It's also why JIS frames can easily be converted to ISO (both the frame and fork) but not the reverse.
Also, I've NEVER seen a same model headset made in JIS and ISO versions where any of the bearing dimensions were different. The headsets are 100% identical except the OD and IDs where they fit the frame and fork.
I suspect that there's no serious fault, just that you have some mixed up parts.
Afterthought. if they tried the crown race installation first, and found it was wrong, they should have known there was a decent chance the head cups would be also, and stopped there. If they installed the frame cups first it's grayer. They should have felt that the cups were unreasonably tight and stopped. But some tubes, especially with Tig frames expand fairly easily and it can sometimes be easy to press in an oversized cup.
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Last edited by FBinNY; 10-17-14 at 10:45 PM.
10-18-14, 07:14 AM
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They should have caught that it was the wrong parts but ultimately you supplied the parts so the liability falls on you. A busy day with a mechanic trying to get caught up doing a fairly easy repair just zoomed through the job and never looked back. I suspect the same thing would have happened at most shops.
10-18-14, 07:15 AM
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Fault aside, the easiest - though not the cheapest - option is have a shop convert the frame and fork to ISO.
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10-22-14, 09:26 AM
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I've seen all combinations of 26.4 vs 27 crown race and 30 vs 30.2 headset cup diameter. You need to measure before buying the parts.
10-22-14, 10:13 AM
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^^Exactly. The OP didn't say which Schwinn, but many of the Panasonic built models had headsets that were a combination of ISO (fork crown race) and JIS (headtube cup/race) parts.
10-22-14, 10:27 AM
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. Anyway, maybe the manufacturer of the headset you purchased will have a 26.4 crown race to go with the 30.2 cups. Or maybe the bike shop has one in a parts drawer that's compatible. But I think you're stuck with 30.2 cups from now on since the headtube is probably expended. Really not a huge problem, but something to remember for next time.
10-22-14, 10:36 AM
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And when did this conversation occur? Before the service was done, during, at time of pick up or after the OP got home? This speaks directly to how the shop handled the problem and who has the broken egg in hand. Andy.
