Princess_Allez

This is likely true. In the event that an aluminum or cf frame required repair, I would just toss either frame and start anew. Repairs just shift the failure points to different locations and would likely end up making the repaired area more resistant to flex, which would likely overstress an adjacent area.

WhyFi

Hmmmmm - trust the people that build and repair frames, that have knowledge and that have skin in the game... or trust the guy online making blanket statements in an effort to justify their own purchases? Tough call.

Princess_Allez

you're a funny guy 😀...I've read some of your other posts; very polarizing.

Koyote

You should take your sense of humor out and play with it some time.

cthenn

Grossly misinformed.

Dean V

In theory this is correct for a poorly done repair.
However there are plenty of repairers that now what they are doing and can do effective long lasting repairs.
Also buying a frame based on how well it crashes is only relevant to a few riders. Mainly young poor racers.
Certainly for me crash damage to the bike is only a small part of the problem of hitting the ground.
The main issues being the time taken for an ageing body to heal and the potential time off work.

popeye

For a crit bike AL is as light and stiff as required. It will be very lively as AL is the densest material available will will transmit every shock. The better AL bikes try to replace as many AL parts as they can with CF. Comfort can be improved with geometry but you are still fighting the properties of the material. For the record CF has an unlimited fatigue life as opposed to AL with has a short fatigue life followed by titanium welds (also virtually unrepairable along with AL due to the need to autoclave the welds. There are choices out there for CF repair and it is not difficult or unreasonably expensive.

bruce19

FWIW...I love my CAAD 12 but my Guru Sidero (steel) is quicker steering and incredibly agile. It's all down to a steep fork rake on the Guru. The CAAD 12 is not far off. I've owned everything from Lotus to Corvette to Audi an BMW. The Guru is the Lotus. Not better necessarily but you think about a move and you've already made it. Like my Lotus.

Chubby715

I did the same thing this spring. Went from a 1986 custom Columbus frame with Campy SR to a Cervelo R5 with Dura Ace and Zipp 303 wheels. Its a much lighter bike and much more responsive when you stand up and climb. And my knees aren't sore anymore after consecutive days of riding.

GlennR

My observation of a "cheaper" vs " expensive" frame.

The stiffness of the bottom bracket is noticeable. I find the more expensive (aka stiffer) frame you accelerate as you're getting out of the saddle where the cheaper there is what i call "turbo lag". The bike does not jump as it does on the more expensive frame.

BTW, i'm comparing a Trek Emonda SL to a SLR.

asgelle

What are you talking about?

Density of common metals (gm/cm^3):
Al (6061): 2.7
Steel: ~8.0
Ti (3/5): 4.48

popeye

Guilty as charged. I mis-recalled an old Sheldon Brown article and should have known better.

"Besides stiffness of the frame, feel is also important, but is much more subjective and esoteric. There is no best “feel”, but typically steel frames are “lively” (which is a “springy” feel), titanium shares the feel of steel but is slightly more damping and takes the edge off of the high frequency road noise, and carbon fiber has a very damp feel and little “springiness”. Finally, aluminum lacks “springiness” and damping, which is why it’s got a rap for feeling “harsh”."

asgelle

That’s one example of why it’s bad to use other people’s work without attribution.

popeye

Recollection from 20yrs ago and I got it wrong the first time.

vespasianus

Add me to the list. Went from a 1999 Tommasini to a carbon bike with disc brakes and carbon wheels. My old Tommasini was close to 20 lbs and the new bike is 16.5. But I think I like my old bike better.

Princess_Allez

I'll make sure to remember to air it out every so often. Thanks.

Princess_Allez

This is what I was getting. It was failed to be mentioned. There IS a benefit to cf frames outside of weight reduction. They dampen high frequency road vibrations. That is worth paying the extra money.

znomit

Or you could just use wider tyres and forget about frame material.

Sy Reene

It could be, though some folks like what is sometimes termed 'more connection with the road', which might be a reflection on degree of road 'buzz' getting through to the rider.

Given that I'd wager Sheldon's input was written probably a decade ago, I also wonder to what degree frame material matters as much now with the popularity of ever wider tires. Yes, when we we all ran 23s, frame material impact on ride feel could have been more substantial; but as frames now allow folks to ride with 30+ mm width (as measured) tires, some frames with actual shock absorbing devices built in, etc, -- I would guess that the dampening quality of the raw material is a lot less a part of the overall ride-feel equation?

WhyFi

Yeah, because they often mistake that for speed and assume/justify that any less "road feel" means a dead, uncommunicative frame.

Branko D

Or they could just knock off 5 psi off the tire pressure at a time, until it mutes any excessive buzz. I run my 23F / 25R tires at anything from 80 psi to 110 psi.
110 psi is really nice on smooth roads but you feel it over the lower quality ones, 100 psi takes the edge off those, and if I'm going for a training ride over local backroad climbs, where the road is more like a collection of patches upon potholes upon old patches, 80 psi. Why change tires when you can vary the tire pressure.

CF is still better, though.

asgelle

Pinch flats

Sy Reene

Agree. Too often the terminology and words used conjure negative impressions, eg. dead, flat, or Sheldon's "very damp feel", instead of perhaps smooth, solid, stable or assured, etc

guadzilla

Not really. Whether there is a significant performance gain - i cannot say. Probably not a huge one.

But can i tell a difference? Hell yeah. I can definitely tell a difference between, say, the ride of my Venge, my R5 and my Damocles - all 3 are carbon bikes. Now admittedly, they arent specced exactly the same, but if the carbon wheels, bars and seatpost can contribute to a difference in feel, surely so can the frame... and the biggest difference i notice is in the bike's response when I slamdance on the pedals and dial it up to 400W. Again - I am not saying this matters in terms of performance, but the difference is noticeable for sure.

Just Mark

Five or six years ago my wife and I purchased hybrid bikes to use as one of the activities we wanted to do to get back to fit. After a year or so of riding, I became interested in getting a road bike and extending my time in the saddle. After too much research and way too much time reading posts on this forum, I bought a 2017 Specialized Roubaix Comp. After finding the right seat (for me), fine tuning the fit and just putting in the miles, I fell in love with this bike.

I typically ride 3 to 4 times during the work week. Anywhere from 15 to 25 miles depending on how early the sun comes up and what my morning work schedule looks like. I will usually ride a 25 to 40 mile ride on the weekends (30 is more typical) at least once and sometime twice depending on what is planned. My average speed on a ride, according to my Garmin, runs anywhere from 14.5 to 16.7. Overpasses and bridges are the only hills I climb. Basically, I’m not a speed demon or and endurance rider.

A week before last Christmas, I was in REI with my wife to get her some new winter gloves and hiking shoes. They had a 2019 Cannondale Synopse 105 SE (Aluminum) in my size for a price that made me look twice and had to ask an REI employee if I was reading it wrong. Long story short: walked in for gloves and left with a bike. This bike sits at our weekend place, so I don’t have to drag the Roubaix down every trip.

Both bikes are set up nearly identical: Same seat, same pedals, same fit. The main differences are frame material, Future Shock (Roubaix), and tire width (Synopse has 30mm). Once I’m on the bike and riding, I can’t tell the difference. And my Garmin says I’m about the same speed and do the same distances on either bike. I’ve never weighed either of them, but lifting them to move them, I don’t notice a difference in weight either. Though I would assume that the Roubaix would be lighter if I weighed them.

Maybe someone younger and/or more fit than me would notice an extreme difference between the two. I’m sure there are tangibles in a higher end frame that I fail to notice. At least in the audiophile world there are objective and double blind tests the prove and disprove various postulations made by the so called experts; yet there are still audiophiles that swear by their $3K speaker wires.